Powers & Abilities Swordsmanship is All About Haki

Who is Superior and in Which Stats?

  • Mihawk (swordsmanship and haki)

  • Mihawk (swordsmanship alone)

  • Mihawk (haki alone)

  • Shanks (swordsmanship and haki)

  • Shanks (swordsmanship alone)

  • Shanks (haki alone)


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Couldn't really tell you, but if anyone had the superior Haki, it would have been Kaido.... And he lost that fight.
You don't think Luffy haki was improving throughout the fight. You might be right though maybe Luffy combination of physical strength and Haki passed up a tired Kaido attack. So maybe. I don't see how this changes anything with cut yoru or Swordsman having haki to improve Swordsmanship. The way of the sword to Mihawk is teaching Zoro haki. Do you have a rebuttal for that?
 
You don't think Luffy haki was improving throughout the fight. You might be right though maybe Luffy combination of physical strength and Haki passed up a tired Kaido attack. So maybe. I don't see how this changes anything with cut yoru or Swordsman having haki to improve Swordsmanship. The way of the sword to Mihawk is teaching Zoro haki. Do you have a rebuttal for that?
Zoro spent two years with Mihawk. We saw one panel of that entire two years in a flashback during the first time Zoro ever showcased Hardening, to give the readers insight as to where he learned it.

That is hardly grounds to claim that is the only thing Mihawk showed Zoro.

Explain why all of Zoro's preskip attacks, now have upgraded names, even when Haki isn't being used. What would have changed with Zoro, to make those attacks much more potent?
 
Zoro spent two years with Mihawk. We saw one panel of that entire two years in a flashback during the first time Zoro ever showcased Hardening, to give the readers insight as to where he learned it.

That is hardly grounds to claim that is the only thing Mihawk showed Zoro.

Explain why all of Zoro's preskip attacks, now have upgraded names, even when Haki isn't being used. What would have changed with Zoro, to make those attacks much more potent?
Zoro is bigger
His moves are different from haki or him being stronger
 
From a pure logical standpoint you're 100% correct.

If I had to guess what Oda intended to say, it's probably that Shanks specifically has some fucked up CoC and CoO feats that Mihawk can't replicate on that level, while the latter is superior in swordmanship (and therefore in CoA, too).
honestly willing to bet the clairvoyant guy has more keen observation haki
shanks with his haki has developed the ability to hinder others from seeing into the future ( prob conquerors related) and that might be an efficient counter.
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I think it's a misunderstanding. There is a subtle difference b/w saying "swordsmanship is all about Haki" and saying "Haki is all about swordsmanship." I don't agree with the statement completely but he's not necessarily wrong completely. If he said Haki is all about swordsmanship then we can use the Luffy argument.
the first statement is still off
if swordsmanship was all about haki
ppl with great haki should be perfectly fine swordsmen off the bat . he himself admits its clickbait lol .
 
Zoro's growth with Enma was all about mastering his Busoshoku and Haoshoku haki
  • Enma forcibly released his Ryuo, and learning how to wield Enma forced him to temper and master said haki
  • He had to unlock Haoshoku haki to effectively use Enma at all
Zoro's growth with Enma was that Enma is a nerf and that made Zoro being in an extreme difficult situation which makes haki bloom.
Otherwise Enma is not doing a shit to Zoro. Zoro never had problem controlling haki or mastering it. It is an Enma only issue.
 
Dunno how it hasn't been mentioned yet at all... But the entire point of having Zoro show...
THIS


THIS


AND THIS

Was so that he could later showcase...


Like, that was the entire point of the thing.
He learned a new technique from Kinemon, was slowly shown improving on it and growing during the battle, and finally upgraded it with AdCoC to create this new finisher.
You cannot have "Dragon Damnation" without having learned how to cut fire, a swordsmanship technique that you do not acquire solely through Haki. And you cannot have it either without AdCoC.
To watch this entire growth unfold from Zoro in both Haki and Technique and simplify it to one is absurd.

At best, you can say that his Haki growth far far surpassed his technical growth, and sure, but you cannot still downplay the fact that Oda very clearly portrayed how technical growth and Haki complement each other through Zoro's swordsmanship.
 
So do you agree that Mihawk as per his title, is stronger than Shanks despite Shanks' haki "might" be stronger
Just asking bro, don't get triggered :pepebuggy:
I've already said that many times as well. As it currently stands, nothing puts Shanks above Mihawk, as per Mihawk's title, and Shanks being a Swordsman. That could or could not change the further we get into the story, but it wouldn't make a difference to me.

Me debating about skills and Haki to a Swordsman has nothing to do with whose stronger between Shanks and Mihawk. It's just common sense that the World's Strongest Swordsman, would be the absolute most skilled in Swordsmanship. Like who would dedicate their entire life to a Martial Art, and not care about being the best at that Martial art? That makes no sense.
 
Good point. We could assume that most swordsmen, after a certain level, maxed out their basic sword skills. Then the difference comes from their physical strength, haki prowess and channeling elemental powers. There are a plenty of evidence in the manga that supports this premise. We have seen only one panel of Mihawk training Zoro and it was all about haki. Most of Zoro's post-ts attacks are amped up version of pre-ts attacks. He got many times stronger, but his techniques haven't increased proportionally. I am sure Tashigi maxed out her sword skills, but she is not one of the strongest swordsmen in the world. Smoker warned her when she charged against Law that her haki cant handle it.
 
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I've already said that many times as well. As it currently stands, nothing puts Shanks above Mihawk, as per Mihawk's title, and Shanks being a Swordsman. That could or could not change the further we get into the story, but it wouldn't make a difference to me.

Me debating about skills and Haki to a Swordsman has nothing to do with whose stronger between Shanks and Mihawk. It's just common sense that the World's Strongest Swordsman, would be the absolute most skilled in Swordsmanship. Like who would dedicate their entire life to a Martial Art, and not care about being the best at that Martial art? That makes no sense.
Understandable. Sorry if i was being rude earlier
 
I don't think Mihawk is necessarily above in all forms of haki. But it's obvious that Mihawk is above overall- that's literally his dream. This swordsmanship or skill fight nonsense is something fans come up with. Zoro doesn't care- strongest means strongest; it means you defeat any other swordsman.



IMO Mihawk's CoA and CoO are notch above Shanks', meanwhile Shanks' CoC is notch above Mihawk's, balancing out the deficient in two with strongest of all. Meanwhile Mihawk's proficiency with blade gives him an overall edge.
 
Nah superior haki is not superior swordsman imo. Kaidou wouldve said Roger who is a swordsman, was at the peak since being a swordsman or swordsmanship transcends all, not haki transcends all. Greenbull wouldve said he felt Shanks' swordsmanship or flying slashes or sword technique that was felt by him, not Shanks CoC. Brannew would say Mihawk the WSS who is stronger than Shanks instead of giving a specific condition of surpassing Shanks in swordsmanship. Kaidou, Greenbull, Brannew would not go out on their way to separate the two stuff if one stuff is under the category of the other instead of its own stuff. Akainu should not have been literally affected by Shanks' CoC presence that served as strength difference measurement, while in comparison each Vista-Jozu-Crocodile was unfazed at the slightest by Mihawk's presence against them.

Thats why Shanks is a weaker swordsman who has stronger haki than Mihawk. Thats my stance even since pre-TS, since Shanks displayed Conqueror's Walk in Moby Dick.

You are a detailed person but often exaggerate some scenes to support Mihawk/Zoro points in lengthy essays. You can try to treat Shanks' haki portrayal, feats, recognition whatever by the same manner, and see what happens.

Finally, Shanks who had made two Admirals unwilling to fight against him by showing his CoC, is Oda's self-insert who is also placed narratively as God Nika Luffy's direct competitor to be PK, after WSC Kaidou, while Oda teased about how does he actually fight.
But most have have haki and it applies to every fighting style. That's why the general statement matters.

Kaido saying "swordsmanship" transcends all makes no sense because then it won't be a general statement anymore. Then he'd be talking about a specific stuff. It is irrelevant to Luffy or Kaido.

People wank haki because it applies to everything and can be said in any context.

Superior haki is a superior swordsman. Superior haki is a superior sniper. Superior haki is a superior brawler.

Haki transcends all because no matter what you are or what your fighting style is, haki is what makes you superior.

Regardless of who you are or what fighting style you have, haki is the ultimate factor in it. There's a reason why Zoro's journey to WSS is HEAVILY based on haki.

So all those dialogues only add to Cinera's post.

Of course it doesn't mean a superior swordsman is superior in every haki than an inferior swordsman or whatever. Just that haki is a critical part of it. There are other factors in every fighting style.

From this accumulation of factors alone, i can say that Oda will not have Shanks be below Mihawk the WSS at all. Shanks' plot support is just too unbelievable.
Can believe that if you want, but latter is also true at this point. Shanks is part of Zoro's dream by default (He won't lose to anyone who is a swordsman, no matter what), and Mihawk is essentially WB to Shanks' Roger. Just like how Oda never once portrayed WB as weaker to Roger, he will never have Mihawk weaker to Shanks regardless of whether people wanna believe the title or not.
 
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