General & Others The Grand Kaido and Wano Death Compiliation

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
#1
Basically a gathering of all the interesting panels I could find that relate to the idea of whether Kaido- or anyone else- will die, or be beaten. It’s only Wano and the introductory chapter of Kaido, I couldn’t be bothered going through all of post-skip to see what was said about him. Also, obviously I don’t speak Japanese, so I’m going to have to be hoping the Viz is as contextually accurate as can possibly be. And word of warning, this is a shitload of images

First off, his introductory chapter.





Titled Suicide, our first real introduction of Kaido gives us his motive- he wants to die, and he wants to do it like Whitebeard, which he feels is the right way to go.

The first chapter of Wano:



Mirroring Kaido’s introduction, it’s a chapter titled around suicide. The magistrate gives us an idea that will be repeated throughout the arc- it is the way a person dies that completes a man.

Act One:






Quite sparse in information. Luffy and Kid both express a desire to “get“ Kaido, or “whup“ him, but not to kill him. More interesting is the first mention of a Scabbard saying that they themselves are looking for a meaningful death, with Ashura missing his chance. Kine’mon wants to “strike down” Kaido- I think that’s quite neutral as to whether it means kill or not. Of more interest is this is the first time the idea of a beheading is brought up.

Act Two:

A bit more interesting. We have Luffy and Kid arguing over who will be the one to beat Kaido



Luffy emphasises that he will beat all the Emperors, and the Scabbards point out he will be the lynchpin in the fight against Kaido



And Luffy’s individual declarations against Kaido himself. The last of these is the only time Luffy implies he wants to kill Kaido, not just beat him. This does, however, come when he is cosplaying as a samurai




We also have another mention of dying as a Samurai, with the ones who went on the suicide mission that broke Ashura’s spirit.


And also, we have the Ryuma beheading a dragon legend told by Gyukimaru.


Another mention of taking Kaido’s head. And yes, there is a picture of Zoro there, but take the ZKK theory out of it if you wish, just focus on the idea that Kaido will be beheaded being brought up again.


Interesting for the inevitable party at the end of the arc, we discover the Fire Festival is a time to celebrate the dead. This, combined with the “proper way for a samurai to die”, means we can get a death from a good guy, while still having a party to finish the arc


Finally, the idea that the spirit of the dead samurai live in their sword, and that by taking them up you can continue the fight. This is what we see in the Scabbards vs Kaido, and if Zoro joins the fight- Oden and all the other samurai, from beyond the grave, are still fighting to beat Kaido.

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Act Three (Up until 999)

This is where things really pick up pace

In the Oden flashback we have two mentions of Oden wanting not to defeat Kaido, but to kill him. Cut off his head, and cut his scaly neck. It’s far more violent than the usual language used by Oda for simply defeating an opponent without killing him, and continues this idea that Kaido will be decapitated



We see Kaido praise the way Oden died. Is this the start of his death fascination, or did it exist prior?


Oden for his part, although he trusts his samurai, does not believe that they will beat Kaido, saying it will be people in the future that will do it. “Strike down” is interesting, again it could imply kill or simply defeat


In the present day, we have Scabbard death flags a-plenty in the approach to Onigashima. Again, Kin’emon is more violent than Oda usually is from a protagonist- it’s not explicitly saying he’ll kill him, but stabbing someone in the neck is heavily suggestive of killing.




We get a return of the Luffy and Kid rivalry to defeat Kaido, and Kid now talking about killing Kaido and using his head as a prow for his ship. Once again, the idea that Kaido will end up decapitated is brought up by Oda.



Upon arrival at Onigashima, yet more Scabbard death flags, with the idea of them seeking a meaningful, samurai death.



Luffy, for his part, consistently says he will beat Kaido. He does not, however, mention killing him. That only came when he was dressed up as a samurai




In Onigashima itself, we get the first explicit mentions that Zoro wants to fight Kaido. Note I’m only putting in explicit mentions, not the more vague “let’s get to the roof and Kin’emon.” The cutting Kaido pieces statement is again, particularly violent for an Oda protagonist.


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I’ve got more but ran out of space to post it
 

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
#3
Kaido vs the Scabbards is especially interesting. A “meaningful death” for Izo. “Pierce his hide”, unusual, since most of the talk is of cutting his head off and focusing on the neck. Big Mom looking awful cheerful at the thought of Kaido dying- some big sister she’s meant to be. The very interesting combination of the Scabbards saying they will die, once they have taken Kaido’s head. Saying they want to “sever his windpipe” and stop his breathing, because the “fight isn’t over until his head is severed.”








We’ll interrupt the Scabbard attack to bring in Yamato, who is open to the idea of her father being killed. This also brings in Ace, who wanted to kill Kaido.





Back to the Scabbards, we get Kaido talking about how he really would have quite enjoyed the Scabbards killing him, because they remind him of Ode.



This final page is, I think, key to Kaido‘s entire character arc, and sums up all of what I’ve said here. It’s the way of death that Kaido longs for, and it’s what the Scabbards have been pushing themselves towards throughout the arc.



So, with all that’s been said what do I think this is leading to?

A scabbard really should die. There has been far too many mentions of a “meaningful death” for Oda not to go through with it. Kin’emon would obviously be the main candidate, given we’ve known him the longest and he is the main figure in the Scabbards, but Oda is quite likely to be unwilling to kill him off given how much time has been spent on him. Izo, Denjiro or Ashura are then the best bet- the ones with the least relationship with the Strawhats.

Luffy is beating Kaido. He has said it will happen far too often, and this is One Piece, Luffy is always going to be the main man. But note, apart from one time, when he is pretending to be a samurai, Luffy does not say he will kill Kaido. It’s the usual beat, whup, etc.

And there is, very clearly, an emphasis on Kaido dying, and specifically by decapitation. Can Oda make a scenario where Luffy beats Kaido, but someone else kills him. I think it’s fairly obvious that is what he is doing. Much like BM contianlly mentioning how much she is looking forward to cake, Oda has not put in this “behead Kaido” idea for no reason. The fight, as is said, is not over until he is dead. It could be an execution, or it could be in a fight. It is unlikely to be Kid- it would have to be someone “taking up Oden’s sword.” Kid hasn’t done that in any respect. Could it be Luffy? Ryou killing him from the inside? It doesn’t seem likely, given Luffy’s refusal to mention the word kill, and it not matching the decapitation idea.

Ultimately, whether you like it or hate it, it can not be denied there is very, very strong textual support for the idea that someone will decapitate Kaido. It has been mentioned countless times in the arc. And we have seen the Scabbards fail to do so. Is it then a red herring, or is ZKK real? I think it certainly cannot be dismissed as an argument.
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Thank you kindly
 
#4
In Onigashima itself, we get the first explicit mentions that Sanji wants to fight Kaido. Note I’m only putting in explicit mentions, not the more vague “let’s get to the roof and Kin’emon.” The cutting Kaido pieces statement is again, particularly violent for an Oda protagonist.

Lmao
 
#9
Yeah, Garp compiled some nice panels to prove "Kaido will be decapitated by Zoro". Sorry for not buying it. If Kaido even gets decapitated, it will not be in the hands of the strawhats. It will be done after Luffy deals the final blow by Oden's samurai or by Blackebeard crew. Killing an enemy goes against everything the strawhats stand for. As Oda said in a very early SBS, "Why doesn't Luffy kill his enemies? Because in that era, everyone uses their lives to fight for their dreams. For an enemy, when their dream has been shattered, it is the same as losing a fight, and as painful as death. I believe, for a pirate not to kill an enemy, it's giving them a 2nd chance to fight for their dreams."
 
#10
Yeah, Garp compiled some nice panels to prove "Kaido will be decapitated by Zoro". Sorry for not buying it. If Kaido even gets decapitated, it will not be in the hands of the strawhats. It will be done after Luffy deals the final blow by Oden's samurai or by Blackebeard crew. Killing an enemy goes against everything the strawhats stand for. As Oda said in a very early SBS, "Why doesn't Luffy kill his enemies? Because in that era, everyone uses their lives to fight for their dreams. For an enemy, when their dream has been shattered, it is the same as losing a fight, and as painful as death. I believe, for a pirate not to kill an enemy, it's giving them a 2nd chance to fight for their dreams."
By OdEnS sAmUrAi
 
#11
I‘ll update this thread periodically, maybe after every block of chapters between breaks. Assuming there’s something interesting that is said- there’s been surprisingly little the past three chapters, mostly because there’s been more action than dialogue. And remember, this is about overt mentions, not implications, so I won’t be going into the symbolism of Zoro using Ryuma’s attack, for example, or the meaning of the people Kaido saw behind Luffy.

Chapter 1000



That’s a pretty huge moment- Yamato narrates over Oden’s journal, which we had seen previously, only this time we see who exactly he was talking about that would be the ones to “strike down” Kaido- Luffy, Zoro, Law, Kid and Killer. Big Mom also expresses a desire to “take the heads” of these five, which would be defeat or death.



We get more of the Scabbards and their resolve for a meaningful death- Kin’emon, having failed to kill Kaido, no longer feels he could face Oden in the afterworld. What this will mean for them in the future should be interesting- they aren’t going to drop out the arc totally, it’s too early.



There’s a flashback of Momo saying he wants to defeat Kaido- not kill him- back on Zou. That was where he and Luffy made official the pact between them- where Luffy made the promise to take down Kaido



We then have Luffy promise that he’ll surpass both Kaido and Big Mom to become Pirate King




Chapter 1001

It’s once again emphasised that Kid is out to kill Kaido, not just defeat him- and we also get Law, for the first time, saying he wants to kill Kaido



We also discover that Kaido no longer wants to break the spirits of the Worst Gen and make them join him- he wants them dead.



Chapter 1002

The title of 1002 is mildly interesting.



Generally speaking, in chapters titled X vs Y, X wins. It’s not always the rule, though. It then wasn’t a surprise that The chapter ended with 4 out if the 5 Worst Gen on the receiving end of a bad attack.

In the chapter itself, the only really interesting dialogue was this from Kaido



Tying back to Kawamatsu’s statement back in Act Two, about how the battle between the dead samurai and the Beast Pirates was not done, as their spirits live on in their swords. Oden’s still in this fight, in a way.
 
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