I didnt make a thread in a while, nothing Zoro related this time either, just like the last time.
A more pressing issue than already well-known Zoro's strength. Let's take a look below.
I keep seeing, more and more, that people from before TS stand no chance against people from after TS and it needs to be addressed.
The best examples are Sir Crocodile, Enel, Moriah and Lucci. There are many others but I picked these as the best examples.
Let's see what actually changed in those two years of time skip and who changed.
The only characters that had drastic changes are Luffy and Zoro.
They were strong before TS as well, stronger than people realize but in TS they became more effective in what they were doing.
They enhanced their battle instincts and reflexes through CoO but Zoro's pre TS feat against Kuma's Pad Canon is still the best evasion feat in the whole manga, which means Zoro was already that good in pre-TS, he simply became slightly better in post-TS.
The main thing they trained during TS was Armament Haki which was the best way to make their offense more effective. From what we know, neither of them have trained physical strength, Luffy gained it automatically through Boundman but we have no confirmation for Zoro. He probably reached a ceiling in physical strength and cannot improve any longer and he told us in pre-TS as well that he has pushed himself harder than anyone else and asked himself what he lacks... The answer was Haki.
Now, the main issue is Luffy because if you observe the OP world from his eyes, he makes it look like pre-TS and post-TS are two entirely different worlds while they actually arent. Let's start with Sir Crocodile, his Marineford version is the same as Alabasta version, he didnt get more powerful by sitting in a prison. It is exactly the same guy. B-But Luffy beat him without gears. Yes, he met an MC and the plot demanded that he loses. He eventually lost but he basically killed Luffy two times before he was taken out by Luffy's strongest multi-hit move called Storm. The same Crocodile was a big name in Marineford and performed comparably to Yonko commanders. The one change between pre-TS and post-TS Crocoboi that needs to be taken into consideration is "healed wounds" which is referring to his willpower recovering after being crushed by one of the two strongest people in the New World - Whitebeard. Willpower plays a big role.
Enel got served the injustice swiftly. The plot moved heaven and earth so Enel could lose. His main asset, the one-shot DF was completely nullified, he was dumbed down and couldnt believe his own eyes and his CoO became ineffective, then he gave Luffy a powerful weapon, a heavy and hard golden ball that he can hit him with and made sure to make himself big enough so Luffy doesnt miss... All of that paired with his intangibility also gone out the window because why not... He went to the moon and next time we see him he will be much stronger? Unlikely, traveling to the moon isnt making people stronger.
Moriah is probably the most underestimated character in the whole of One Piece. His willpower has also been crushed in New World, also by one of the two strongest people of NW - Kaido the Beast. One thing that most people dont realize is that Luffy himself has never actually beaten Moriah, not with his own power. Moriah was pummeled into the ground by the most ridiculous power-up in the whole manga - Nightmare Luffy. People underestimate just how powerful that thing was. When it comes to display of raw power, Nightmare Luffy was tossing around a supergiant like Oars as if he was a toy while Monster Chopper and Emperor LinLin put their backs into throwing around a dino Queen who is many times smaller and lighter than Zombie Oars. Whitebeard stops Moby Dick with one hand, meanwhile, Nightmare Luffy stops a punch from Zombie Oars, the Gomu no Rifle, as if it was nothing. Then we see Luffy's strongest multi-hit move for the second time in action, pulled off in ridiculous NML form and the target isnt Oars(not really) but Moriah who is sitting inside Oars... While Oars isnt feeling anything due to being a Zombie, Moriah is feeling every single hit. Everything that came after that is just Moriah signing his own death sentence, he was already beaten up and pulled off something he couldnt control... He still pulled off the strongest punch so far, island splitter. Two years pass by, that same Moriah goes back into the NW and apparently joins Blackbeard. He didnt change.
Now, we lastly come to Lucci who is World Government's most effective killer in their secret, Cipher Pol's 9th unit. When he lost, Kuma said that nobody thought he would lose. Kuma, who is probably a top tier, said such for Lucci... TS happened, Luffy enhanced his hits a bit and that's it, his movement speed is unlikely changed, pre-TS Lucci was able to compete with G2 speed, so pre-TS Lucci can compare with post-TS G2 speed as well. He ran away from the Government, struck a deal and got accepted into the CP0. He was taken out by Luffy's 2nd strongest multi-hit move - Jet Gattling after he already defeated Luffy, who stood back up after Usopp's motivational speech...
The point of all of this is that circumstances in which they all lost to Luffy are extremely fishy and tailored so that Luffy can end up victorious despite all of them being significantly stronger than Luffy. That creates the illusion which makes the people think that those guys from pre-TS stand no chance against rather weak people like veteran tier in post TS... That is simply wrong, all of them would own all people that fall into the so-called Veteran tier... Lucci from pre-TS is stronger than the WsW we currently see. Pre-TS Crocodile, Enel and Moriah are stronger than that same WsW we are currently seeing. The last two years which "worked miracles" for Luffy and Zoro, didnt affect all of those other characters... They are as strong as they were. WsW from two years ago isnt a scrub, he is the same WsW we see today.
Kaido from two years ago wasnt any different, Big Mom neither, Shanks and Mihawk neither... Blackbeard from two years ago is the same Blackbeard we see today, he didnt change in these two years. Akainu is the same as Akainu from two years ago. Marco is the same Marco... The whole world wasnt on 2 years haki training camp just because Luffy and Zoro were... I keep seeing people putting Oven above most of the people from before TS, reality is that most of them would beat up Over without too much trouble and that doesn't include just the people that faced Luffy but also those who faced Zoro. Mr1, Ryuma, Ohm and Kaku would molest people like Oven. Fighters from before TS arent as weak as people think, quite the contrary. People probably think that Lucci and Kaku joined into CP0 and magically powered up... No, they were incredibly strong before TS, that's why they are relevant in post-TS, just like Crocodile and his sidekick, Enel, Moriah and others... A Warlord's place was never in the Veteran tier, they were always in the YC tier or above as they are people specifically selected for their individual strength.
I hope this has cleared up some of the issues and changed the way people see those figures from the first half of the Grandline.
Thanks for reading.
A more pressing issue than already well-known Zoro's strength. Let's take a look below.
I keep seeing, more and more, that people from before TS stand no chance against people from after TS and it needs to be addressed.
The best examples are Sir Crocodile, Enel, Moriah and Lucci. There are many others but I picked these as the best examples.
Let's see what actually changed in those two years of time skip and who changed.
The only characters that had drastic changes are Luffy and Zoro.
They were strong before TS as well, stronger than people realize but in TS they became more effective in what they were doing.
They enhanced their battle instincts and reflexes through CoO but Zoro's pre TS feat against Kuma's Pad Canon is still the best evasion feat in the whole manga, which means Zoro was already that good in pre-TS, he simply became slightly better in post-TS.
The main thing they trained during TS was Armament Haki which was the best way to make their offense more effective. From what we know, neither of them have trained physical strength, Luffy gained it automatically through Boundman but we have no confirmation for Zoro. He probably reached a ceiling in physical strength and cannot improve any longer and he told us in pre-TS as well that he has pushed himself harder than anyone else and asked himself what he lacks... The answer was Haki.
Now, the main issue is Luffy because if you observe the OP world from his eyes, he makes it look like pre-TS and post-TS are two entirely different worlds while they actually arent. Let's start with Sir Crocodile, his Marineford version is the same as Alabasta version, he didnt get more powerful by sitting in a prison. It is exactly the same guy. B-But Luffy beat him without gears. Yes, he met an MC and the plot demanded that he loses. He eventually lost but he basically killed Luffy two times before he was taken out by Luffy's strongest multi-hit move called Storm. The same Crocodile was a big name in Marineford and performed comparably to Yonko commanders. The one change between pre-TS and post-TS Crocoboi that needs to be taken into consideration is "healed wounds" which is referring to his willpower recovering after being crushed by one of the two strongest people in the New World - Whitebeard. Willpower plays a big role.
Enel got served the injustice swiftly. The plot moved heaven and earth so Enel could lose. His main asset, the one-shot DF was completely nullified, he was dumbed down and couldnt believe his own eyes and his CoO became ineffective, then he gave Luffy a powerful weapon, a heavy and hard golden ball that he can hit him with and made sure to make himself big enough so Luffy doesnt miss... All of that paired with his intangibility also gone out the window because why not... He went to the moon and next time we see him he will be much stronger? Unlikely, traveling to the moon isnt making people stronger.
Moriah is probably the most underestimated character in the whole of One Piece. His willpower has also been crushed in New World, also by one of the two strongest people of NW - Kaido the Beast. One thing that most people dont realize is that Luffy himself has never actually beaten Moriah, not with his own power. Moriah was pummeled into the ground by the most ridiculous power-up in the whole manga - Nightmare Luffy. People underestimate just how powerful that thing was. When it comes to display of raw power, Nightmare Luffy was tossing around a supergiant like Oars as if he was a toy while Monster Chopper and Emperor LinLin put their backs into throwing around a dino Queen who is many times smaller and lighter than Zombie Oars. Whitebeard stops Moby Dick with one hand, meanwhile, Nightmare Luffy stops a punch from Zombie Oars, the Gomu no Rifle, as if it was nothing. Then we see Luffy's strongest multi-hit move for the second time in action, pulled off in ridiculous NML form and the target isnt Oars(not really) but Moriah who is sitting inside Oars... While Oars isnt feeling anything due to being a Zombie, Moriah is feeling every single hit. Everything that came after that is just Moriah signing his own death sentence, he was already beaten up and pulled off something he couldnt control... He still pulled off the strongest punch so far, island splitter. Two years pass by, that same Moriah goes back into the NW and apparently joins Blackbeard. He didnt change.
Now, we lastly come to Lucci who is World Government's most effective killer in their secret, Cipher Pol's 9th unit. When he lost, Kuma said that nobody thought he would lose. Kuma, who is probably a top tier, said such for Lucci... TS happened, Luffy enhanced his hits a bit and that's it, his movement speed is unlikely changed, pre-TS Lucci was able to compete with G2 speed, so pre-TS Lucci can compare with post-TS G2 speed as well. He ran away from the Government, struck a deal and got accepted into the CP0. He was taken out by Luffy's 2nd strongest multi-hit move - Jet Gattling after he already defeated Luffy, who stood back up after Usopp's motivational speech...
The point of all of this is that circumstances in which they all lost to Luffy are extremely fishy and tailored so that Luffy can end up victorious despite all of them being significantly stronger than Luffy. That creates the illusion which makes the people think that those guys from pre-TS stand no chance against rather weak people like veteran tier in post TS... That is simply wrong, all of them would own all people that fall into the so-called Veteran tier... Lucci from pre-TS is stronger than the WsW we currently see. Pre-TS Crocodile, Enel and Moriah are stronger than that same WsW we are currently seeing. The last two years which "worked miracles" for Luffy and Zoro, didnt affect all of those other characters... They are as strong as they were. WsW from two years ago isnt a scrub, he is the same WsW we see today.
Kaido from two years ago wasnt any different, Big Mom neither, Shanks and Mihawk neither... Blackbeard from two years ago is the same Blackbeard we see today, he didnt change in these two years. Akainu is the same as Akainu from two years ago. Marco is the same Marco... The whole world wasnt on 2 years haki training camp just because Luffy and Zoro were... I keep seeing people putting Oven above most of the people from before TS, reality is that most of them would beat up Over without too much trouble and that doesn't include just the people that faced Luffy but also those who faced Zoro. Mr1, Ryuma, Ohm and Kaku would molest people like Oven. Fighters from before TS arent as weak as people think, quite the contrary. People probably think that Lucci and Kaku joined into CP0 and magically powered up... No, they were incredibly strong before TS, that's why they are relevant in post-TS, just like Crocodile and his sidekick, Enel, Moriah and others... A Warlord's place was never in the Veteran tier, they were always in the YC tier or above as they are people specifically selected for their individual strength.
I hope this has cleared up some of the issues and changed the way people see those figures from the first half of the Grandline.
Thanks for reading.
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