Theory-Prime Shouheikun Was The Strongest Warrior In China

[Lee Ba Shou]

Before I start this, I just want to say that I don’t for sure believe this to be true, this thread is rather me just presenting an idea for discussion lol. This thread is also highly theoretical, I don’t have much raw evidence that points to this being true yet lol.

Before reading this thread, check out my Prime Shouheikun Thread for more context.

I’m not going to post any panels here yet, if anyone has any panels supporting my text wall please let me know and I’ll add them to the OP lol.

Okay so last thing before we start, I’m going to give my opinion on undoubtedly the first thing that came to a lot of people’s minds as soon as they read the title:

“Prime Shouheikun couldn’t have been the strongest warrior in China, he was never a Great General.”

And on top of everything else wrong with this argument, I would like to point out that Shouheikun was essentially promoted above the rank of Great General to commander in chief. Now you could argue this was partially do you Ryofui trying to secure more political power for himself, but the Qin Military has been stated to be the greatest merit-based-army in China, and I highly doubt Shouheikun would’ve been allowed to hold a rank above Great General if his capabilities didn’t warrant him being that capable. There is a lot more I could say on this subject but I’ve covered this topic in detail in the past so I’m just going to move forward for now.

Okay, so let’s get started:

Recently, we learned that Shouheikun and Moubu were childhood friends and essentially shared a “burden” of some kind. It is highly implied from everything we know about Moubu currently and Shouheikun in his youth, that these two aspired to be the strongest men in all of China, and this is the goal that each of them was working towards.

Now for Shouheikun, “strongest” would essentially just mean “greatest warrior,” Shouheikun’s brute strength isn’t great compared to some of the mongoloids in Kingdom, but Shouheikun’s raw skill as a warrior seems tremendously high from the one time we saw him fight. The Duke of Juuteki rose to the top of his society by his strength alone, and Shouheikun mercilessly rolled over him despite not participating in battle for years at that point.

Shouheikun is a firm believer in meritocracy, he believes that the people who rise through the ranks in Qin should do so based on their on abilities and not how they were born. It is highly likely that this belief was what lead him to strive to reach the top of the Qin military by his own strength and not his birth. For those who read historical spoilers, this makes a ton of sense considering his background and upbringing.

There’s really not much else I have to say on this topic, just wanted to create some discussion lol. There’s got to be a reason this guy has been consistently stated to either be as strong as or stronger than current strongest man in China, right?

Share your thoughts :)

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[FaradaySloth]

Considering he's going to be an obstacle down the road even ignoring his and Moubu's one-shot (i.e. him taking an interest with Shin for future endeavors) I wouldn't be surprised if he's a god tier in Kingdom. I feel though that if we were to get all possible knowledge on everyone, then Gakuki, Kouen, or Hakuki might be more hyped than SHK.

Nice topic.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

I dont think Shouheikun was ever the strongest in China, but I believe he had the potential to be one of the strongest. Someone who was stronger than Moubu could easily be a top 5-10 in China had he continued the path of the battlefield. On the other hand, that would probably reduce his other stats like intelligence, leadership and God forbid, handsomeness!

You tagged the wrong nidai btw!

 

[Desolate Smaug]

I don't think he was ever the strongest. He rose to prominence in at the in btwn era after the Wei FD, Qin Six, Zhao Devas etc and the current era. That little period wasn't great enough to for a general to prove his pedigree. Even the likes of Moubu, Ruboku, Houken, Ousen etc all peaked to great Warriors and generals status in the current age.

I feel like that little period was the calm before the storm that is currently engulfing China in the manga. SHK is still proving himself worthy though by bing the great architect of King Sei's plans of unification.

 

[Jailer]

I think he had potential to be the strongest, being regarded as stronger than Moubu in the past. Both hin and Moubu had likely different strength back them in their youth with Shouheikun being above. Don't think he was necessary the strongest but someone with a lot of potential yes.

 

[Dark Admiral]

He could be but in my honest opinion he wasn't. He might be somewhat close to it but he never was. The warring period when he was at his Prime had China filled with monsters.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

He could be but in my honest opinion he wasn't. He might be somewhat close to it but he never was. The warring period when he was at his Prime had China filled with monsters.

How do you explain Shouheikun being consistently stated to have been stronger than Moubu in his youth? On top of the fact that it’s been implied that Shouheikun and Moubu both wanted to prove that they were the strongest in China?

 

[Dark Admiral]

How do you explain Shouheikun being consistently stated to have been stronger than Moubu in his youth? On top of the fact that it’s been implied that Shouheikun and Moubu both wanted to prove that they were the strongest in China?

To be fair, Moubu only truly got stronger after the death of the Ouki. As Tou himself says so. Prior to that he was just an arrogant brute and SHK could easily be considered strongest against him.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

I mean we saw in the Moubu/SHK spin off what was meant with "back in his youth" - literally when they were young teenagers at best. And they were pretty much equal. Since then SHK seemed to have concentrated more on his tactical and strategical knowledge, while Moubu purely improved his strength on the battlefields. SHK is surely a beast and I rate him highly, but the 3 General Monsters Moubu, Kanmei and ManU are definitely at least a Tier above everyone else.

The fight between Moubu and Kanmei decided who is the strongest man in China.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

To be fair, Moubu only truly got stronger after the death of the Ouki. As Tou himself says so. Prior to that he was just an arrogant brute and SHK could easily be considered strongest against him.

But that version of Moubu, is still considered by Kaioku to be weaker than Shouheikun.

Now sure Kaioku is biased, and Shouheikun doesn’t even consider himself to have been stronger than Moubu, but there’s got to be a reason that people consistently place current Moubu and Shouheikun in the same strength tier.

If Shouheikun’s “burden” was to become the strongest, do you really think he’d have retired from the battlefield if he would’ve never achieved that goal?

 

[Dark Admiral]

But that version of Moubu, is still considered by Kaioku to be weaker than Shouheikun.

Now sure Kaioku is biased, and Shouheikun doesn’t even consider himself to have been stronger than Moubu, but there’s got to be a reason that people consistently place current Moubu and Shouheikun in the same strength tier.

If Shouheikun’s “burden” was to become the strongest, do you really think he’d have retired from the battlefield if he would’ve never achieved that goal?

I haven't read SHK and Mobou 1 shot chapters so don't have much idea about "burden" they carry so excuse me on that. However, I think SHK didn't actually retire due to him achieving his goal. It was cause he got bestowed more important Role on him by Ryofui.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

But that version of Moubu, is still considered by Kaioku to be weaker than Shouheikun.

Which version do you mean? Kaioku only talked about their "youth", from decades ago. I dont think there should be even a debate about who of them 2 are stronger right now.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

I haven't read SHK and Mobou 1 shot chapters so don't have much idea about "burden" they carry so excuse me on that. However, I think SHK didn't actually retire due to him achieving his goal. It was cause he got bestowed more important Role on him by Ryofui.

To me, this kinda seems like Shin retiring before he becomes a Great General lol. It just wouldn’t fit.

Now it’s possible that Shouheikun would consider his mental acumen as part of his “strength”, IE Shouheikun rising to the top of China via his intellect rather than just his brains (or a combination of both) could satisfy his burden. Who knows lol.

Which version do you mean? Kaioku only talked about their "youth", from decades ago. I dont think there should be even a debate about who of them 2 are stronger right now.

In reference to Prime Shouheikun, Kaioku actually said he was even stronger than Great General Moubu.

In reference to Kanyou Shouheikun, Kaioku stated that he had “the martial strength of Moubu with the intellect of Riboku” so actually Kaioku in particular still thinks prime Shouheikun is stronger than the Moubu who slayed Kanmei and that current Shouheikun ~ Moubu

And don’t get me wrong, bias is definitely a factor in this debate, but I don’t think Kaioku is so biased that he would blindly rank Shouheikun above the guy who slayed Chu’s #2 ranking Great General.

Kaioku should have a very clear idea how strong someone like Kanmei was in war, and should be very much aware of how big a deal it was that Moubu slayed him. And yet, Kaioku still thinks Moubu never surpassed Shouheikun in strength.

Now like I said this is just Kaioku’s opinion but really nobody in Kingdom except for Shouheikun has expressed the opinion of Moubu > Shouheikun (but then again, Moubu thinks Shouheikun is stronger than he is, the last time he gave his opinion on the matter)

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

To me, this kinda seems like Shin retiring before he becomes a Great General lol. It just wouldn’t fit.

Now it’s possible that Shouheikun would consider his mental acumen as part of his “strength”, IE Shouheikun rising to the top of China via his intellect rather than just his brains (or a combination of both) could satisfy his burden. Who knows lol.



In reference to Prime Shouheikun, Kaioku actually said he was even stronger than Great General Moubu.

In reference to Kanyou Shouheikun, Kaioku stated that he had “the martial strength of Moubu with the intellect of Riboku” so actually Kaioku in particular still thinks prime Shouheikun is stronger than the Moubu who slayed Kanmei and that current Shouheikun ~ Moubu

And don’t get me wrong, bias is definitely a factor in this debate, but I don’t think Kaioku is so biased that he would blindly rank Shouheikun above the guy who slayed Chu’s #2 ranking Great General.

Kaioku should have a very clear idea how strong someone like Kanmei was in war, and should be very much aware of how big a deal it was that Moubu slayed him. And yet, Kaioku still thinks Moubu never surpassed Shouheikun in strength.

Now like I said this is just Kaioku’s opinion but really nobody in Kingdom except for Shouheikun has expressed the opinion of Moubu > Shouheikun (but then again, Moubu thinks Shouheikun is stronger than he is, the last time he gave his opinion on the matter)

1) As for the first one, he literally just says "back in my lords youth". Ofc he does NOT mean that Young Shouheikun > Prime Moubu lol, he obviously meant Young SHK > Young Moubu.

2) And as for this one: “the martial strength of Moubu with the intellect of Riboku”, I dont have the Manga panel rn to see the exact quoting, but I do remember him saying such a thing. Anyways it was obviously just bias combined with hype. Nothing we should take more serious than Shouheikuns OWN words.

3) There are countless reasons why Moubu is currently stronger than SHK. While SHK was working on his tactics, politics and strategies primarily, Moubu went out to one war after the other and improved his strength massively. SHK even admitted what a "phenomen" Moubu's strength is, and that he believes Moubu is the only one capable of such a thing.

4) Let alone SHK, Moubu is the STRONGEST out of all characters in the Verse! Hara clearly hyped up the battle between Kanmei and Moubu as the battle which decides who will be "the strongest man in China". Just look at the Chapter Titles:

"The Strongest Man"

"Deciding the Strongest"

Kanmei: "This is the stage to decide the Strongest"

No one can tell me that ANYONE is stronger than THIS beast. Kanmei, ManU and Moubu play in their own league - but Moubu proved that he seems to have the edge over them two. Shouheikun doesent come close anymore, the times of them beeing equal is over for decades.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

1) As for the first one, he literally just says "back in my lords youth". Ofc he does NOT mean that Young Shouheikun > Prime Moubu lol, he obviously meant Young SHK > Young Moubu.

Erm, but Kaioku literally says Shouheikun was stronger than Great General Moubu. Why on earth would Kaioku reference a version of Moubu that the readers have no earthly idea what he looks like or how strong he is? lol

2) And as for this one: “the martial strength of Moubu with the intellect of Riboku”, I dont have the Manga panel rn to see the exact quoting, but I do remember him saying such a thing. Anyways it was obviously just bias combined with hype. Nothing we should take more serious than Shouheikuns OWN words.

What bout Moubu's own opinion? In my Prime Shouheikun Hype thread, I showed how Moubu did not object to Shouheikun being stronger than him, but Moubu did object to Ouki being stronger than him.

In Moubu's own mind, Shouheikun seems to be at least stronger than Ouki, and once you reach that realm of strength you really don't get much stronger lol.

3) There are countless reasons why Moubu is currently stronger than SHK. While SHK was working on his tactics, politics and strategies primarily, Moubu went out to one war after the other and improved his strength massively. SHK even admitted what a "phenomen" Moubu's strength is, and that he believes Moubu is the only one capable of such a thing.

But you have no idea about how young Shouheikun rose to his current rank. If Moubu and Shouheikun shared a "burden" that involved being the strongest in China, then that would mean Shouheikun likely rose to prominence via his martial strength. Shouheikun could've had an ambition to prove he was the strongest in China just like Moubu (that's kinda what them sharing a burden implies).

Shouheikun stated that he learned tactics from Koshou, but Koshou isn't going to just start teaching random people tactics. It's highly probable Shouheikun rose through the ranks of the Qin Military via his martial strength (like Moubu) and then Koshou taught him tactics as a result. Kinda like how Rinshoujou taught Gyou'Un tactics after Gyou'Un rose through the ranks via his strength.

This thread is about the theoretical anyway lol.

4) Let alone SHK, Moubu is the STRONGEST out of all characters in the Verse! Hara clearly hyped up the battle between Kanmei and Moubu as the battle which decides who will be "the strongest man in China". Just look at the Chapter Titles:

Nah bro, dumbest argument easily.

For one, Moubu is not stronger than Man'U. Man'U himself also stated that he is weaker than Kanmei. This matches 100% with what Moubu vs Kanmei showed, Kanmei was clearly stronger than Moubu, Moubu only winning the fight once Kanmei attacked Mouten and Moubu exploded with rage lol.

Moubu has yet to prove himself the strongest man in China. He is close but he has yet to prove it definitively. And if you know anything about historical spoilers...well, I'll stop there. Needless to say, I would bet at the very least that in addition to Man'U, Shibashou is also in the same strength tier as Moubu. Hara has hyped that guy's fighting strength hard.

No one can tell me that ANYONE is stronger than THIS beast. Kanmei, ManU and Moubu play in their own league - but Moubu proved that he seems to have the edge over them two. Shouheikun doesent come close anymore, the times of them beeing equal is over for decades.

Moubu was never stronger than Houken, for one.

It's highly probable that Kou En himself will be in the same strength tier as Moubu. Kou En got passed over for Commander in Chief of the chu Military in favor of Karin, which highly implies that Karin is tactially above Kou En, but Kou En's rank of "strongest Great General in Chu" would suggest that his overall abilities are stronger than Karin's. Meaning Kou En will have to bridge the tactical gap with his martial strength. Karin also claimed that she was just as strong as Kanmei, so assuming Kou En is overall stronger than Karin, that would likely mean he is very close to Karin tactically but straight up above her martially.

So now that Houken is dead, Moubu is for sure not stronger than Man'U, I highly doubt he'll be stronger than Shibashou, and I think Kou En will be in that strength tier as well. There are likely many other monsters in China close to Moubu in strength that we've never heard of. Just look at the caliber of Generals in Zhao that we had never heard of before the Gyou campaign, monsters like Rozo, Gyou'Un, Shibashou, etc..in addition to Man'U being a complete unknown but throttling Moubu with one arm.

One last thing I'll say:

When we look at "martial strength" in Kingdom, that doesn't mean Shouheikun has equivalent brute strength to Moubu or Kanmei, that just means Shouheikun is overall as dangerous as them in a fight or even moreso, when factoring things like Shouheikun's own skill and intelligence in fights. Like if Kanmei and Shouheikun fought, Shouheikun could very well pull a Wategi on him and just instantly slice Kanmei's arms off and behead him without ever being as physically powerful as Kanmei.

Nobody is arguing that Shouheikun can beat Moubu in an arm-wrestling contest, but Shouheikun's overall fighting skill still very well may be higher than Moubu's.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

Erm, but Kaioku literally says Shouheikun was stronger than Great General Moubu. Why on earth would Kaioku reference a version of Moubu that the readers have no earthly idea what he looks like or how strong he is? lol



What bout Moubu's own opinion? In my Prime Shouheikun Hype thread, I showed how Moubu did not object to Shouheikun being stronger than him, but Moubu did object to Ouki being stronger than him.

In Moubu's own mind, Shouheikun seems to be at least stronger than Ouki, and once you reach that realm of strength you really don't get much stronger lol.



But you have no idea about how young Shouheikun rose to his current rank. If Moubu and Shouheikun shared a "burden" that involved being the strongest in China, then that would mean Shouheikun likely rose to prominence via his martial strength. Shouheikun could've had an ambition to prove he was the strongest in China just like Moubu (that's kinda what them sharing a burden implies).

Shouheikun stated that he learned tactics from Koshou, but Koshou isn't going to just start teaching random people tactics. It's highly probable Shouheikun rose through the ranks of the Qin Military via his martial strength (like Moubu) and then Koshou taught him tactics as a result. Kinda like how Rinshoujou taught Gyou'Un tactics after Gyou'Un rose through the ranks via his strength.

This thread is about the theoretical anyway lol.



Nah bro, dumbest argument easily.

For one, Moubu is not stronger than Man'U. Man'U himself also stated that he is weaker than Kanmei. This matches 100% with what Moubu vs Kanmei showed, Kanmei was clearly stronger than Moubu, Moubu only winning the fight once Kanmei attacked Mouten and Moubu exploded with rage lol.

Moubu has yet to prove himself the strongest man in China. He is close but he has yet to prove it definitively. And if you know anything about historical spoilers...well, I'll stop there. Needless to say, I would bet at the very least that in addition to Man'U, Shibashou is also in the same strength tier as Moubu. Hara has hyped that guy's fighting strength hard.



Moubu was never stronger than Houken, for one.

It's highly probable that Kou En himself will be in the same strength tier as Moubu. Kou En got passed over for Commander in Chief of the chu Military in favor of Karin, which highly implies that Karin is tactially above Kou En, but Kou En's rank of "strongest Great General in Chu" would suggest that his overall abilities are stronger than Karin's. Meaning Kou En will have to bridge the tactical gap with his martial strength. Karin also claimed that she was just as strong as Kanmei, so assuming Kou En is overall stronger than Karin, that would likely mean he is very close to Karin tactically but straight up above her martially.

So now that Houken is dead, Moubu is for sure not stronger than Man'U, I highly doubt he'll be stronger than Shibashou, and I think Kou En will be in that strength tier as well. There are likely many other monsters in China close to Moubu in strength that we've never heard of. Just look at the caliber of Generals in Zhao that we had never heard of before the Gyou campaign, monsters like Rozo, Gyou'Un, Shibashou, etc..in addition to Man'U being a complete unknown but throttling Moubu with one arm.

One last thing I'll say:

When we look at "martial strength" in Kingdom, that doesn't mean Shouheikun has equivalent brute strength to Moubu or Kanmei, that just means Shouheikun is overall as dangerous as them in a fight or even moreso, when factoring things like Shouheikun's own skill and intelligence in fights. Like if Kanmei and Shouheikun fought, Shouheikun could very well pull a Wategi on him and just instantly slice Kanmei's arms off and behead him without ever being as physically powerful as Kanmei.

Nobody is arguing that Shouheikun can beat Moubu in an arm-wrestling contest, but Shouheikun's overall fighting skill still very well may be higher than Moubu's.

Did Moubu and Kanmei Arm Wrestle or what lol? I proved you that Hara clearly build that fight up as who is the strongest man in China! Its not about who could bench more, its about who is the individual most powerful fighter. Clear proofs, as clear as the sky. Young Kanmei swiftly defeated Oukotsu who was said to be the strongest amongst the 6 Qin Great Generals. There are definitely levels, and Moubu/Kanmei/ManU are in a level of their own. Its quite ridiculous from you to claim that Kaioku meant that Young Shouheikun is stronger than Prime Moubu... Like come on. He was clearly just saying that Young Shoheikun was stronger than Young Moubu - he said "Great General" Moubu to underline again what monster he is talking about. Moubu is clearly the strongest in the verse, SHK vs Moubu in an individual fight is not even a debate. Moubu mid diffs.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Did Moubu and Kanmei Arm Wrestle or what lol?

You know what I mean lol. It's about brute power, and showing the difference between brute power and overall fighting strength.

I proved you that Hara clearly build that fight up as who is the strongest man in China! Its not about who could bench more, its about who is the individual most powerful fighter. Clear proofs, as clear as the sky.

In terms of brute strength, not overall fighting strength. Houken could deflect arrow bombardments from dozens of men, and reflect those arrow bombardments straight back at them as if they were fired from bows lol. Moubu has nowhere near that level of fighting ability. Moubu was turned into an arrow quiver by standard archers during Bayou.

Moubu does not have high fighting skill, Moubu has very high brute strength. But put Moubu up against Hakurei and his life is in danger lol. Shouheikun or Houken would fair much better than Moubu and would not lose to Hakurei.

Young Kanmei swiftly defeated Oukotsu who was said to be the strongest amongst the 6 Qin Great Generals.

Oukotsu was said to have the greatest brute strength among the Qin 6. You don't seem to understand the difference between brute strength and martial strength, but they are certainly two different things.

Its quite ridiculous from you to claim that Kaioku meant that Young Shouheikun is stronger than Prime Moubu...

That is literally what he says though. Those are his literal words. Prime Shouheikun > Great General Moubu.

You never answered my question of why Hara would have Kaioku clarify that Shouheikun is stronger than a character who we've never seen even fight.

[QUOTE="onepiece_quiz, post: 1181431Moubu is clearly the strongest in the verse, SHK vs Moubu in an individual fight is not even a debate. Moubu mid diffs.[/QUOTE]

Straight up disrespect lol. Moubu could be killed by Hakurei, Kyou, Kyou En, etc... if you want to get disrespectful lol. Put Moubu up against a Archer-Specialized Army and he gets annihilated. Hell Kyoukai could arguably behead Moubu instantly. He has never proven he can land a hit on someone as fast or athletic as her.

I could just as easily argue that Shouheikun just instantly beheads Moubu and there is no fight. Moubu swings at him once, and Shouheikun dodges the swing (we saw Shouheikun lay horizontally down on his horse to dodge glaive swings), and then Shouheikun just cuts Moubu in half instantly.

You have arbitrarily decided that Moubu's brute strength gives him the advantage over raw skill based fighters when there is no evidence of this in the manga. Like I said, standard archers covered Moubu with arrows at Bayou.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

You know what I mean lol. It's about brute power, and showing the difference between brute power and overall fighting strength.



In terms of brute strength, not overall fighting strength. Houken could deflect arrow bombardments from dozens of men, and reflect those arrow bombardments straight back at them as if they were fired from bows lol. Moubu has nowhere near that level of fighting ability. Moubu was turned into an arrow quiver by standard archers during Bayou.

Moubu does not have high fighting skill, Moubu has very high brute strength. But put Moubu up against Hakurei and his life is in danger lol. Shouheikun or Houken would fair much better than Moubu and would not lose to Hakurei.



Oukotsu was said to have the greatest brute strength among the Qin 6. You don't seem to understand the difference between brute strength and martial strength, but they are certainly two different things.



That is literally what he says though. Those are his literal words. Prime Shouheikun > Great General Moubu.

You never answered my question of why Hara would have Kaioku clarify that Shouheikun is stronger than a character who we've never seen even fight.

Straight up disrespect lol. Moubu could be killed by Hakurei, Kyou, Kyou En, etc... if you want to get disrespectful lol. Put Moubu up against a Archer-Specialized Army and he gets annihilated. Hell Kyoukai could arguably behead Moubu instantly. He has never proven he can land a hit on someone as fast or athletic as her.

I could just as easily argue that Shouheikun just instantly beheads Moubu and there is no fight. Moubu swings at him once, and Shouheikun dodges the swing (we saw Shouheikun lay horizontally down on his horse to dodge glaive swings), and then Shouheikun just cuts Moubu in half instantly.

You have arbitrarily decided that Moubu's brute strength gives him the advantage over raw skill based fighters when there is no evidence of this in the manga. Like I said, standard archers covered Moubu with arrows at Bayou.

The fight between Kanmei and Moubu was about "who is the strongest", which does NOT mean strongest in brute strength, but in overall in a 1v1 fight. If they really wanted to measure who has the higher brute strength, a fight would not be the correct way to find it out. If you wanna know who can swim better, you make a swim duel. If you wanna know who runs faster, you sprint duel. If you wanna know who is the strongest in brute strength alone, you make a bench press contest or whatever. If you wanna know who is the STRONGEST MAN IN CHINA IN A FIGHT, you fight each other in a duel - and thats what Moubu and Kanmei did.

If you reread what Kanmei said, you will understand it as well. He clearly consideres himseld the strongest. And in the same breath he also said that he was never even once defeated in BATTLE. It clearly shows that the "strongest" Moubu, Kanmei and Hara are talking about means "strongest in a battle" and not only in brute muscular strength! Here, read yourself:

Kanmei defeated each and every General he faced not with his muscular strength, but with SKILL, even the strongest of the 6 Qin Dragons. You can see that cause he always used his sword which requires primarily skill and not muscular strength:

It is just that against Moubu, he knew that skill ALONE is not enough. Which is why Moubu is the first enemy he faced after a decade he needs the full combination of skill and brute strength:

Its absolutely ridiculous to break these 2 monsters and the whole fight down to only brute muscular strength. This fight was the combination of speed, strength, weight, mentality and skills:

"Is this really a battle between humans?"

The old guy from Kanmei's army even talked about "martial arts" immedeatly after saying "he's strong" - which again without a doubt means that the "strongest" and "strength" the talk is about in this fight and these chapters is NOT about shere muscular strength alone! Its a combination of fighting skills, speed, weight, mentality and also strength:

Houken or whoever you are talking about would not be able to keep up with this combination of speed, strength, skills and weight these two monsters have. Houken may be more skillful and have a higher level of martial art - but if you combine all the points together to see how they would do overall in a 1v1 fight, Houken wouldnt come close tho this:

And now to finish off everything, after proving that this fight was clearly about determining who is the STRONGEST in term of a 1v1 BATTLE and not pure brute strength like you claimed, here are the words of our boy Shouheikun himself which clearly implies that he admits that Moubu is far beyond his own strength - SHK wouldve been absolutely trashed by Kanmei!
But read yourself, every single word Shouheikun said speaks for itself:

This is not what I say. This is what the whole fight between Moubu and Kanmei was build up to be - its what Moubu, Kanmei, Hara and even Shouheikun himself said.

Without any doubts, Kanmei and Moubu play in a league of their own - ManU who recently appeared is the only other character on their level. Else whether its SHK or Houken or whomever: its not even close.

The Strongest Man in all of China is Moubu. End of the Discussion. Close the Thread.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

The fight between Kanmei and Moubu was about "who is the strongest", which does NOT mean strongest in brute strength, but in overall in a 1v1 fight. If they really wanted to measure who has the higher brute strength, a fight would not be the correct way to find it out. If you wanna know who can swim better, you make a swim duel. If you wanna know who runs faster, you sprint duel. If you wanna know who is the strongest in brute strength alone, you make a bench press contest or whatever. If you wanna know who is the STRONGEST MAN IN CHINA IN A FIGHT, you fight each other in a duel - and thats what Moubu and Kanmei did.

If you reread what Kanmei said, you will understand it as well. He clearly consideres himseld the strongest. And in the same breath he also said that he was never even once defeated in BATTLE. It clearly shows that the "strongest" Moubu, Kanmei and Hara are talking about means "strongest in a battle" and not only in brute muscular strength! Here, read yourself:

Kanmei defeated each and every General he faced not with his muscular strength, but with SKILL, even the strongest of the 6 Qin Dragons. You can see that cause he always used his sword which requires primarily skill and not muscular strength:

It is just that against Moubu, he knew that skill ALONE is not enough. Which is why Moubu is the first enemy he faced after a decade he needs the full combination of skill and brute strength:

Its absolutely ridiculous to break these 2 monsters and the whole fight down to only brute muscular strength. This fight was the combination of speed, strength, weight, mentality and skills:

"Is this really a battle between humans?"

The old guy from Kanmei's army even talked about "martial arts" immedeatly after saying "he's strong" - which again without a doubt means that the "strongest" and "strength" the talk is about in this fight and these chapters is NOT about shere muscular strength alone! Its a combination of fighting skills, speed, weight, mentality and also strength:

Houken or whoever you are talking about would not be able to keep up with this combination of speed, strength, skills and weight these two monsters have. Houken may be more skillful and have a higher level of martial art - but if you combine all the points together to see how they would do overall in a 1v1 fight, Houken wouldnt come close tho this:

And now to finish off everything, after proving that this fight was clearly about determining who is the STRONGEST in term of a 1v1 BATTLE and not pure brute strength like you claimed, here are the words of our boy Shouheikun himself which clearly implies that he admits that Moubu is far beyond his own strength - SHK wouldve been absolutely trashed by Kanmei!
But read yourself, every single word Shouheikun said speaks for itself:

This is not what I say. This is what the whole fight between Moubu and Kanmei was build up to be - its what Moubu, Kanmei, Hara and even Shouheikun himself said.

Without any doubts, Kanmei and Moubu play in a league of their own - ManU who recently appeared is the only other character on their level. Else whether its SHK or Houken or whomever: its not even close.

The Strongest Man in all of China is Moubu. End of the Discussion. Close the Thread.

It doesn’t matter because Hara has always considered Houken stronger than Moubu. Moubu has scored lower than Houken in strength every single time Hara has released information on how strong the two are. Hara has always given Moubu a 99 in strength while giving Houken either 100 or “over 100”. At no point in the history of this manga has Moubu even surpassed Bayou Houken, and Kanmei was beneath Houken as well.

Moubu is the strongest in brute strength, nothing else. Shouheikun, Houken or Kyoukai could kill him easily. He is much too simple minded of a brute to be able to defeat the real strongest characters in this manga, brute strength contests are irrelevant.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

It doesn’t matter because Hara has always considered Houken stronger than Moubu. Moubu has scored lower than Houken in strength every single time Hara has released information on how strong the two are. Hara has always given Moubu a 99 in strength while giving Houken either 100 or “over 100”. At no point in the history of this manga has Moubu even surpassed Bayou Houken, and Kanmei was beneath Houken as well.

Moubu is the strongest in brute strength, nothing else. Shouheikun, Houken or Kyoukai could kill him easily. He is much too simple minded of a brute to be able to defeat the real strongest characters in this manga, brute strength contexts are irrelevant.

If you really take the numbers seriously then Shouheikon has a score of 90 and is well below them, dont just pick whats fitting well for you... Houken lost to fckin Shin and wouldve also lost to Ouki who has a lesser score as well. The scores are inconsistent, and we dont even know what they include. Cause "weight of a General" is a thing, and due to that Houken isnt the strongest, even if he might have reached the limit of martial might and arts. He would get destroyed by Moubu or Kanmei. And also I explained you pretty clearly that the "strongest" and "strength" in the Moubu/Kanmei fight is about strength in a 1v1 battle and NOT brute muscular strength. Read my last comment completely and please stay unbiased. Cause I stated nothing but clear PROOFS.