Do you hate him since the very start of his flashback , mid flashback (in his time with Roger , whitebeard) or after his return to Wano ( you know, affer his ridiculous dancing) . Apparently , there a lot of you in this forumn who basically despises him to the core for some reason. I don't think he is a masterpiece in terms of writting but to think he is trash like Hody is a bit excesive. Please share your thoughts so I can understand your hatred towards him.
Character Discussion To all of you who hate Oden's character.
- Thread starter ShanksTheStrongest
- Start date
I quite like to concept of his character. Badass swordsman archetype is my shit
But then he fell apart piece by piece because the concept of his character didnt match with the story being told.
Oden’s character PEAKED in the scene where he meets his father again after being banished. The concept of Oden being a character who does NOT grow and is set in his ways maxes out in that scene where his fatger comes to appreciate him for who he is, as opposed Oden actually having changed. Oden even says “I dont think i changed” when his father is praising him for supposedly having grown into a great man.
This is the thesis of Oden’s character. He doesnt change. Its everyone else’s perceptions of him that change.
Again this was a good idea for a character and i’ve outlined a good use of this idea in that scene with his father. I’m belaboring the point that there is some good to this idea so that you dont accuse me of being biased when i get into the bad.
Because EVERYTHING ELSE after this is bad. I think Oda had the dilemma of wanting people to like Oden, while giving him to awful character flaw of being unable to change. And it IS A CHARACTER FLAW because its one of the primary reasons Wano fell to shit. Also, its not impossible to make likeable characters with huge flaws, the problem with Oda’s writing is that no one actually acknowledges the flaws in the story itself so it comes off as Oden being forced to be likeable as opposed to readers making the choice to like him or not
See, no one in the story hates oden. Or at least, no one who isnt a vindictive asshole like Orochi. Hell even Kaido likes Oden. Thats a problem. Whats a character flaw if no one in the story cares? Like none of the scabbards hate Oden for abandoning them. None of Oden’s family hates him. Not even Hyogoro who lost his wife. Hell not even the citizens os Wano hate him. And maybe the word “hate” is too strong, but its not like people dont like him either. Or are ambivalent about him.
No, his character flaws that fucked over the whole country exist for plot purposes, and not to actually inform character arcs or dynamics. It remains an absolute travesty that Hiyori has no feelings regarding this 20 year shit. Like she completely loves her father and mother who specifically abandon her for the sole reason of “If Momo dies, maybe Hiyori will be old enough to give birth in 20 years so lets just leave her to suffer for a bit”… Do you see where I’m getting at?
the tragedy of wano is sooo centered on Oden and his bad decisions as opposed to like if it were out of anyone’s control such as Doflamingo’s take over of Dressrosa, that its fuckin nonsense that absolutely no one blames Oden. Simply because he is a chad that died in thw chadliest way possible.
And there we go back to that issue, he is a chad that dies in the chadliest way. Oda doesnt care either. He wants you to like Oden so much so that his death has to be so epic that kaido even falls in love. Its cringe. I actually felt cringe for Oda when reading that chapter. I could feel him whispering “love this guy” in my ear and what makes it bad is that i actually did love this guy, when he simply had a discussion with his father and nothing else.
Also it doesnt help that the scabbards sucked, toki sucked and the only good thing about the whole flashback was roger and whitebeard so in the end, everything SURROUNDING Oden was also bad.
But then he fell apart piece by piece because the concept of his character didnt match with the story being told.
Oden’s character PEAKED in the scene where he meets his father again after being banished. The concept of Oden being a character who does NOT grow and is set in his ways maxes out in that scene where his fatger comes to appreciate him for who he is, as opposed Oden actually having changed. Oden even says “I dont think i changed” when his father is praising him for supposedly having grown into a great man.
This is the thesis of Oden’s character. He doesnt change. Its everyone else’s perceptions of him that change.
Again this was a good idea for a character and i’ve outlined a good use of this idea in that scene with his father. I’m belaboring the point that there is some good to this idea so that you dont accuse me of being biased when i get into the bad.
Because EVERYTHING ELSE after this is bad. I think Oda had the dilemma of wanting people to like Oden, while giving him to awful character flaw of being unable to change. And it IS A CHARACTER FLAW because its one of the primary reasons Wano fell to shit. Also, its not impossible to make likeable characters with huge flaws, the problem with Oda’s writing is that no one actually acknowledges the flaws in the story itself so it comes off as Oden being forced to be likeable as opposed to readers making the choice to like him or not
See, no one in the story hates oden. Or at least, no one who isnt a vindictive asshole like Orochi. Hell even Kaido likes Oden. Thats a problem. Whats a character flaw if no one in the story cares? Like none of the scabbards hate Oden for abandoning them. None of Oden’s family hates him. Not even Hyogoro who lost his wife. Hell not even the citizens os Wano hate him. And maybe the word “hate” is too strong, but its not like people dont like him either. Or are ambivalent about him.
No, his character flaws that fucked over the whole country exist for plot purposes, and not to actually inform character arcs or dynamics. It remains an absolute travesty that Hiyori has no feelings regarding this 20 year shit. Like she completely loves her father and mother who specifically abandon her for the sole reason of “If Momo dies, maybe Hiyori will be old enough to give birth in 20 years so lets just leave her to suffer for a bit”… Do you see where I’m getting at?
the tragedy of wano is sooo centered on Oden and his bad decisions as opposed to like if it were out of anyone’s control such as Doflamingo’s take over of Dressrosa, that its fuckin nonsense that absolutely no one blames Oden. Simply because he is a chad that died in thw chadliest way possible.
And there we go back to that issue, he is a chad that dies in the chadliest way. Oda doesnt care either. He wants you to like Oden so much so that his death has to be so epic that kaido even falls in love. Its cringe. I actually felt cringe for Oda when reading that chapter. I could feel him whispering “love this guy” in my ear and what makes it bad is that i actually did love this guy, when he simply had a discussion with his father and nothing else.
Also it doesnt help that the scabbards sucked, toki sucked and the only good thing about the whole flashback was roger and whitebeard so in the end, everything SURROUNDING Oden was also bad.
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I wasn’t a huge fan of Oden character even in the beginning, but i didn’t hate him either.
He was okay during the first part even if the flashback already had great flaws ; the scabbards group was created waaaayyy to quickly, no real feelings etc.
I really like his moments with WB, it was the only moment that the flashback made us feeling something. And WB was great as always.
but after that…..
His moments with Roger weren’t bad but lacking (I understand because of spoils).
And his Wano return moments were either bad or scandalously bad.
The last fight was lame (I can understand why but lame all the same).
The golden hour wasn’t bad. Oden end was one of true hero.
But overall the fb who was hyped a lot was mediocre.
Oden being a wild animal totally rough around the edges could have had potential but ended a bit flat. His ways of always charging head first and thinking after was fun only a short time.
I don’t find many qualities to his character to be honest. And the story didn’t help him at all.
He was okay during the first part even if the flashback already had great flaws ; the scabbards group was created waaaayyy to quickly, no real feelings etc.
I really like his moments with WB, it was the only moment that the flashback made us feeling something. And WB was great as always.
but after that…..
His moments with Roger weren’t bad but lacking (I understand because of spoils).
And his Wano return moments were either bad or scandalously bad.
The last fight was lame (I can understand why but lame all the same).
The golden hour wasn’t bad. Oden end was one of true hero.
But overall the fb who was hyped a lot was mediocre.
Oden being a wild animal totally rough around the edges could have had potential but ended a bit flat. His ways of always charging head first and thinking after was fun only a short time.
I don’t find many qualities to his character to be honest. And the story didn’t help him at all.
People were joking about it, but I’m starting to genuinely believe that Oden is Oda’s self-insert.
Honestly, I even like Oden, but I have never seen an author forcing so much the readers to love a character.
Him, and the way he’s written, just doesn’t feel genuine. Paradoxically the fact that Oda wanted me to love him so much, is the reason why I don’t.
Honestly, I even like Oden, but I have never seen an author forcing so much the readers to love a character.
Him, and the way he’s written, just doesn’t feel genuine. Paradoxically the fact that Oda wanted me to love him so much, is the reason why I don’t.
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Wano inhabitants were so goddamn right to call him "Fool of a Lord" because of that dance shit, but Oda wanted the readers to think that they were wrong and they were calling him a fool unfairly because he was dancing for their sake(which is true btw).
But that whole dance plot was so stupid because at that time Oden could have won against Kaido but he accepted Orochi's offer without thinking that in this way he doomed way more people.
And I also find very stupid that he accepted the condition put by the invaders even though he was stronger at that point and they call him a good leader?
But that whole dance plot was so stupid because at that time Oden could have won against Kaido but he accepted Orochi's offer without thinking that in this way he doomed way more people.
And I also find very stupid that he accepted the condition put by the invaders even though he was stronger at that point and they call him a good leader?
What exactly would you say his flaw was? That he wanted to be free even though he had responsibilities, that he put his freedom over the country, that he tried to take on all the burdens himself, or something else? Oda clearly designed him to be flawed, but to me it's not clear what Oda would say the flaw is. I still have a modicum of hope that people will in the story will Oden was partially responsible for things going to shit.
This is his flaw
He is set in his ways to the detriment of his country and family. He supposedly cannot leave his journey with Roger to spend one day in wano killing orochi and kaido because the sea is calling to him or whatever the fuck
He for no reasom believes all of Orochi’s lies and for no reason is too macho to tell anyone why he is letting the country fall to ruin for five years. Because he is a stoic man who grew up as such and cant possibly change to see any advantage in asking for advice on decisions that affect everyone or taking into consideration other people
He is a man of freedom from the start of the flashback and nothing in the nearly 20 years of the flashback will ever change that, no matyer how much he screws up amd brinfs ruin to everyone around him
AND NO ONE WILL EVER LOVE HIM LESS FOR HIS SELFISHNESS
He is set in his ways to the detriment of his country and family. He supposedly cannot leave his journey with Roger to spend one day in wano killing orochi and kaido because the sea is calling to him or whatever the fuck
He for no reasom believes all of Orochi’s lies and for no reason is too macho to tell anyone why he is letting the country fall to ruin for five years. Because he is a stoic man who grew up as such and cant possibly change to see any advantage in asking for advice on decisions that affect everyone or taking into consideration other people
He is a man of freedom from the start of the flashback and nothing in the nearly 20 years of the flashback will ever change that, no matyer how much he screws up amd brinfs ruin to everyone around him
AND NO ONE WILL EVER LOVE HIM LESS FOR HIS SELFISHNESS
When everything could be resolved by excanging information about the one piece for the freedom of wano.
The five years part of the flashback is what destroyed oden's character.
Kaido is also to blame for how bad the flashback got, because he was satisfied with seeing a naked man dancing,instead of focusing on the real stuff that actually matters, like the location of laugh tale or the information on the void century.
His flashback was just a badly written mess that didn't make any sense.
The five years part of the flashback is what destroyed oden's character.
Kaido is also to blame for how bad the flashback got, because he was satisfied with seeing a naked man dancing,instead of focusing on the real stuff that actually matters, like the location of laugh tale or the information on the void century.
His flashback was just a badly written mess that didn't make any sense.
