Powers & Abilities What is Shin's Peak as a General?

Which Great General would Shin's Peak be at?


  • Total voters
    24
D

Dragomir

#21
Just look at this badass motherfucker and tell me he won’t be the best in the manga at EOS. He looks like he would give Renpa the Shou Mou treatment.

Lol, when you put it like that, it's hard to disagree. He really does look like he'd be the best ever general.

What do you think about Ouhon and Mouten? I feel like Ouhon has the most potential out of them both cause he has qualities of both. He's as close as you can get to being a mix of Shin's strength and Mouten's tactical mind.
 

Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#22
Lol, when you put it like that, it's hard to disagree. He really does look like he'd be the best ever general.

What do you think about Ouhon and Mouten? I feel like Ouhon has the most potential out of them both cause he has qualities of both. He's as close as you can get to being a mix of Shin's strength and Mouten's tactical mind.
I think Hara is setting Mouten up to parallel and surpass Riboku specifically. Historically Riboku did not permanently defeat the Xiongnu, he only defeated them severely enough to scare them out of Zhao for a decade. They began attacking Zhao (Qin) again after the death of Riboku and the fall of Zhao. Historically Mouten defeated the Xiongnu permanently via the Great Wall of China.

Especially with Riboku building that massive wall in central Zhao, as well as both Riboku and Mouten being more pacifists than stereotypical generals, I think Hara is planning major parallels between Mouten and Riboku.

Ouhon is more tough to say really. We know Ouhon will ultimately be responsible for eliminating Wei, and I think he’s got a showdown with Kou Yoku set up for the final Chu war, but outside of these I’m not sure if he’ll have any major accomplishments.

Shin on the other hand..Shin will, based on my predictions:
-Defeat Kanki and be the central general responsible for collapsing Yan (including capturing all of the Yan royal family and their court)
-Be heavily involved in Ouhon’s Wei campaign (Shin will likely defeated a Weighted Gaimou)
-I strongly believe that in the second Chu Campaign, Shin will defeat both Renpa and ultimately Kou En himself
-And of course Shin will eliminate Qi in 221, making him, literally, the General responsible for China’s unification in the end lol.

I don’t think really any other Qin General will have the sheer amount of awesome accomplishments that Shin will lol.
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EDIT: Okay Drago so I did some more reading, and there are conflicting records but long story short: Wang Ben arguably dwarfs Ri Shin in achievements from what I’m seeing. Really Wang Ben would’ve been historical Qin’s best General after Wang Jian.
 
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#23
I've voted "other" because I think personality plays a bigger factor in generalship (read: leadership) than talent, skill and aptitude.

At the top tier, everyone possess an abundance of talent, skill and aptitude - to the point comparisons of those really comes down to inches, not miles.

How those things are expressed is channeled through personality, and how effective that can be really comes down to circumstances more than anything. e.g. is Kan Ki better than Ou Sen and Yo Tan Wa because he engaged Ko Chou's 240K Army and won, or is that just a reflection of his personality? I'd say the latter.

I'd also say that experiences matter. Kyou Kai was the first of her peers to understand Ou Sen's Locust strategy on their way to Gyou. That wasn't because she was better than them, but probably because she was a more worldly traveler than them, so she would have a better appreciation of what an influx of refugees could mean.

To take it back to the question of Shin and where he peaks as a general - I don't think he lacks for talent or comes up short compared to anyone. I think the blue print is there, more or less, and that he'll certainly belong in that top tier. I just don't think it's really worthwhile trying to determine who he'll be "better than", and more worthwhile to discuss whole he'll be most "approximate to".

tldr; I think Shin peaks in the top tier, and outcomes of battles, clashes, etc. will come down more to personality and circumstance than anything else.
 
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#24
Shin will slightly surpass Riboku, Renpa and Ouki obviously, I can see him view as the greatest general of his era and the most successful general for the unification but that's all, he will not be on Hakuki's level or Gakuki's level.
 
#25
Outside of historical context, which is not the same Kingdom's context, concepts such as "Haku Ki level" or whichever general you want to cite that doesn't have much in the way of panel time and achievements is meaningless.

You can assume Haku Ki and Gaku Ki and whoever else all belong in the top tier and that would certainly be within reason - but that's as far as it goes.
 
#26
Lol, when you put it like that, it's hard to disagree. He really does look like he'd be the best ever general.

What do you think about Ouhon and Mouten? I feel like Ouhon has the most potential out of them both cause he has qualities of both. He's as close as you can get to being a mix of Shin's strength and Mouten's tactical mind.
Mouten : Either the the best warfare mind or the second best after peak Ousen. Shouheikun even said that he wasn't able to grasp the full scope of his talent. @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung also made a good point about the Xiongu and the Riboku parallel.

Ouhon : The most similar general I see for him is Ouki. He'll be an excellent strategist/tactician, someone who can raise the morale of his troops and a monster of a warrior, though with a different weapon.

When it comes to Shin yes, he'll be the best general ever, that's where it has been going. But Mouten and Ouhon are going to be right up there with him.
 
#27
I don't think there will be a clear cut "best general ever" by the end of Kingdom.

Hara's pretty much gone out of his way to keep the comparisons alive between RBK and Ou Ki, Ou Sen and RBK, Ka Rin and Ou Sen, Tou and Go Hou Mei, etc.

It is my impression and belief that by the time Kingdom ends, there will be simply too many top tier, comparable generals with high levels feats for any one of them to be the definitive "best" - provided circumstance and context were actually evaluated and considered in good faith.
 
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#29
Ri Shin will be the greatest general to ever live, past or present. That’s the point of his convo with Renpa.
Even if that was the point of the conversation, nothing about the way Hara depicts warfare or Shin would indicate the latter will be the best there ever was. I’m certain by now in the story, Shin thinks that sort of thinking is for children and it’s impossible to accurately judge who is better between, e.g. Ou Sen and RBK, or RBK and Ou Ki.

If anything, the point of that conversation was the futility of trying to compare the greats, and that all that matters in earning one’s place among them is what one accomplished in their time. The people would never run out of breath or patience to discuss hypotheticals of who was better, but to even be in the conversation at this point - after the 500 years of war - the only path is to be undeniable.
 
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#30
Even if Hara won’t tell it straight up, he’s going to at least let the readers get the idea that Shin has reached that status.

In Kingdom, Hara tends to use achievements as a narrative device to give his readers a statement. Ei Sei motivating Sai as much as he did makes him a better king than Sho, Riboku outsmarting and killing Ouki directly makes him superior as noted by the narrative, Ri Shin killing Houken proves his ideology is the correct one. There are plenty of things in Kingdom that can be vague and left to the readers imagination, but that’s not always the case.

What Renpa is saying is that the current generation can only prove to be better than the past by accomplishing something that they couldn’t. Otherwise, there will always be that question of “what if”. Unifying the lands will be the nail in the coffin that will place Ri Shin as someone who stands above the rest to the world at large. That’s his goal from day 1 and he’ll achieve it, as most protagonists that are behaviorally similar to Shin do.
Even if it’s a childish dream, the beauty of it is that his conviction is so powerful that he’ll make it a reality.
 
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