Chapter Discussion What will happen with Naoya and Maki ?

[RayanOO]

A thread to talk about what will happen between Maki and Monster Naoya ?

- how hard will be this fight ?

- Maki vs Naoya 1 vs 1 or Naoya will be toon strong and Kamo will have to really help ? or he will be Panda'ed ?

- What will be the end of that fight ? Naoya killed again ? Naoya becoming an ally etc ?

lets go !

Spoiler

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[ConquistadoR]

Sorceror or Cursed Spirit, Naoya is still fodder.

He's just gonna be Maki's hypetool as she & Noritoshi goes on to face their actual Culling Game opponent. We saw the same shit happening before Yuji's Fight (vs Higurama), before Megumi's Fight (vs Reggie), before Yuta's Fight (vs Ryo & Uro) and before Hakari's Fight (vs Kashimo).

I also think Noritoshi might also be used as a hypetool for Maki's opponent, kinda like Panda but let's see.

 

[RayanOO]

Sorceror or Cursed Spirit, Naoya is still fodder.

He's just gonna be Maki's hypetool as she & Noritoshi goes on to face their actual Culling Game opponent. We saw the same shit happening before Megumi's Fight (vs Reggie), before Yuta's Fight (vs Ryo & Uro) and before Hakari's Fight (vs Kashimo).

Naoya is not just reintroduced to be fooderized again

I think he will be the main fight for Maki and Kamo

and like Higuruma Ryu and Kashimo he will become somewhat ally in the end and will recognize Maki as the new Toji

 

[NikaInParis]

Naoya must be stronger now than when he was alive, that's for sure.

Maki IS a beast, but I can't see her beating this Naoya by herself.

Kamo is set up for a redemption storyline. Kenny clowned him for being weak, he was thrown out of his own clan - all this leads to him giving it his all in a fight to prove them wrong.

I believe the fight turns into a 2 v 1 from the next chapter onwards. Maki already fought against projection sorcery and Kamo, being a nerd, probably has intel on it just like he did for the Ten Shadows.

The fight itself will probably be 5-6 chapters long. There's still a lot we can learn about Naoya and especially how cursification affects former sorcerers. Add to that the likely Kamo Noritoshi power up plotline and you got a stew going.

 

[MonsterKaido]

He will give maki a good fight but still would lose.

 

[NikaInParis]

and like Higuruma Ryu and Kashimo he will become somewhat ally in the end and will recognize Maki as the new Toji

Nah, Naoya is too much of a POS to become an ally in any way

 

[RayanOO]

Nah, Naoya is too much of a POS to become an ally in any way

Naoya is a Toji fan boy, and he denied Maki role as the new Toji, as the new monster

I think if Maki proves herself to be the new Toji and the real deal Naoya can become an ally and Maki pet

 

[ConquistadoR]

Naoya is not just reintroduced to be fooderized again

I think he will be the main fight for Maki and Kamo

and like Higuruma Ryu and Kashimo he will become somewhat ally in the end and will recognize Maki as the new Toji

I'm just talking about how Gege has been writing fights in this arc.
Every Main Character got a hypetool fight before they fought their actual opponent(s).

Yuji -> Helicopter Guy & Goons (Hypetool Fight) -> Higurama (Main Fight).
Megumi -> Reggie's Goons (Hypetool) -> Reggie (Main Fight).
Yuta -> Dhruv & Cockroach Spirit (Hypetool) -> Ryu & Uro (Main Fight).
Hakari -> Charles (Hypetool) -> Kashimo (Main Fight).

Similarily, Worm Naoya just seems like Maki's Hypetool before she gets her main fight.
Plus, from a Narrative perspective, Gege spent a countless Panels characterizing these new Culling Game characters (Higurama, Ryu & Uro, Kashimo).
Naoya is already a fully fleshed out character who's already got his chance as a Villain and got beaten. I don't see Gege recycling Naoya as an Antagonist for a Second time against the same Character, he's most likely the Cockroach cursed spirit equivalent for Maki - the Hypetool that gets Low Diff'd in a chapter, the moment the MC gets serious.

 

[NikaInParis]

Naoya is a Toji fan boy, and he denied Maki role as the new Toji, as the new monster

I think if Maki proves herself to be the new Toji and the real deal Naoya can become an ally and Maki pet

I think a likely outcome could be that he does admit she's the new Toji so Naoya continues the fight in order to die to the new Toji.

I don't think living as a curse is something he necessarily enjoys. He's clearly driven by revenge against Maki. If both of them were to be alive after the fight I don't see what could push Naoya to continue since he would be a curse whichever way you slice it.

 

[RayanOO]

I think a likely outcome could be that he does admit she's the new Toji so Naoya continues the fight in order to die to the new Toji.

I don't think living as a curse is something he necessarily enjoys. He's clearly driven by revenge against Maki. If both of them were to be alive after the fight I don't see what could push Naoya to continue since he would be a curse whichever way you slice it.

i think we have to wait for Naoya new spirit as a curse. but maybe serving the new Toji and be with him can be a purpose. But dying to hilm can be an escape too.

Lets see. But i think at some point he will recognize Maki as worthy.

I'm just talking about how Gege has been writing fights in this arc.
Every Main Character got a hypetool fight before they fought their actual opponent(s).

Yuji -> Helicopter Guy & Goons (Hypetool Fight) -> Higurama (Main Fight).
Megumi -> Reggie's Goons (Hypetool) -> Reggie (Main Fight).
Yuta -> Dhruv & Cockroach Spirit (Hypetool) -> Ryu & Uro (Main Fight).
Hakari -> Charles (Hypetool) -> Kashimo (Main Fight).

Similarily, Worm Naoya just seems like Maki's Hypetool before she gets her main fight.
Plus, from a Narrative perspective, Gege spent a countless Panels characterizing these new Culling Game characters (Higurama, Ryu & Uro, Kashimo).
Naoya is already a fully fleshed out character who's already got his chance as a Villain and got beaten. I don't see Gege recycling Naoya as an Antagonist for a Second time against the same Character, he's most likely the Cockroach cursed spirit equivalent for Maki.

None of those "first" fights were already known and established characters.

Plus their story isn't finisbhed yet. Naoya still didn't recognized her as worthy. It's the occasion now to do so.

And Gege didn't reintroduced a known character like Naoya just for him to be fooderized instantly. It doesn't make sense and narrative wise quite weird. There was no point to make him come back to beat him instantly.

Curse Naoya will be stronger than sorcerer Naoya. She cant roll over him.

I think they will have an all out fight.

@NikaInParis it can be fun if curse Naoya creates a domain. Usually special grade curse spirits have one

 

[ConquistadoR]

Plus their story isn't finisbhed yet. Naoya still didn't recognized her as worthy. It's the occasion now to do so.

Doesn't mean their story isn't finished. Someone like Naoya will never acknowledge Maki, if you take everything that's wrong with the Big Three Clans and make it a character - that's Naoya. He doesn't need to come full circle as an ally.
Plus why does she need the acknowledgement from Naoya honestly? The moment Ougi, her own father, saw Toji in Maki and the moment some of the Zenin goons compared her massacre to how Toji annihilated the clan, it's more than enough basically.

None of those "first" fights were already known and established characters.

Doesn't really matter honestly. Maki just gets to dunk on someone from her past.

Curse Naoya will be stronger than sorcerer Naoya. She cant roll over him.

Sorceror Naoya was taken out by a single punch by an injured, exhausted Maki who just got freed from the Zenin's curse.
Curse Naoya should only be stronger than Sorceror Naoya, he is still a variable and he can be as strong as the plot needs him to be.
Either way, Powerlevels only depend on the Plot, not the other way around.

And Gege didn't reintroduced a known character like Naoya just for him to be fooderized instantly. It doesn't make sense and narrative wise quite weird. There was no point to make him come back to beat him instantly.

Maybe it's a mixture of both, Maki uses Wormya as a hypetool while Gege wraps up certain plotlines using him... I don't deny that possibility. It just seems like he's here to get a beating looking at how Gege has written this whole arc. I definitely disagree that he's Maki's main fight.

 

[RayanOO]

Doesn't mean their story isn't finished. Someone like Naoya will never acknowledge Maki, if you take everything that's wrong with the Big Three Clans and make it a character - that's Naoya. He doesn't need to come full circle as an ally.
Plus why does she need the acknowledgement from Naoya honestly? The moment Ougi, her own father, saw Toji in Maki and the moment some of the Zenin goons compared her massacre to how Toji annihilated the clan, it's more than enough basically.

I'm not saying Maki needs that to be better or to feel better. It's mostly Naoya coming to a realisation. And if it can help Maki to grow stronger too why not.

I wouldn't have any problem if Naoya hadn't come back. Maki had her moments with her family, erased her clan, her father realised she was a monster and Naoya the embodiement of the clan prejudices was humuliated and killed like a bitch.

But Gege decided to bring him back to the story. So he wants to do something with Naoya.

Honestly if its just for him to do it all over again : being beaten low/mid diff and not changing at all : what was the point ?

Post automatically merged: Jul 15, 2022

Sorceror Naoya was taken out by a single punch by an injured, exhausted Maki who just got freed from the Zenin's curse.
Curse Naoya should only be stronger than Sorceror Naoya, he is still a variable and he can be as strong as the plot needs him to be.
Either way, Powerlevels only depend on the Plot, not the other way around.

As you said curse Naoya can be as strong as the plot needs him to be. So he can totally be strong enough to push Maki + Kamo to high diff/very high diff.

 

[Jorden625]

Yeah, I can't see Gege reintroducing Naoya just for him to get immediately fucked up by Maki. Naoya is the first sorcerer we've seen be turned into a cursed spirit after death. I don't see Gege wasting that. I'm also of the opinion that Naoya is gonna get some kind of second, more humanoid form.

 

[Fisher Tiger]

Doubt Naoya is just gonna be a hype tool here considering he’s much stronger now. I think Maki with the kelp of Kamo will beat him

 

[ConquistadoR]

Honestly if its just for him to do it all over again : being beaten low/mid diff and not changing at all : what was the point ?

Then again, right back at you, what's the point of concluding the Zenin's family feud, if Maki's gonna be fighting a Zenin again as a Curse once more in the Future?
Naoya vs Maki already happened & he got his ass beat, the ideals his character stood for were proven wrong - so I don't really see the point of another full fledged main fight/arc where Naoya once again comes up as main villain.
All that just for acknowledging Maki as Toji 2.0? Something that was already underlined very clearly previously?
Nah mate, it ain't it imo.

 

[RayanOO]

Then again, right back at you, what's the point of concluding the Zenin's family feud, if Maki's gonna be fighting a Zenin again as a Curse once more in the Future?

To have a conclusion for Naoya and make him an ally, he always thought highly of Toji, fanboying him, thinking he was the one blessed to replace him, and now he will réalise and acknowledge that Maki is the new one.

Naoya still despised maki till the very end he didn’t change at all.

And we saw the previous fights during the culling game : a whole fight with Uro and Ryu and they ended up allies/neutral and they changed a little along the way, Higuruma the same he saved himself from the warpath he was in, Kashimo had a whole fight just for him to be ally in the end and to fight Sukuna.

It can be the same for Naoya, a fight to bring him to the right side, make him change a little etc

Him being bad and fooderized makes a lot less sense than him acknowledging Maki and dying/being ally.

Naoya vs Maki was not an all out fight for Maki. Now with the worm Gege can show different things : Kamo strength, Maki going 100%, the change of a character who became a curse, maybe a domain for Naoya because he became a special grade curse spirit etc etc. Gege can do lot of things here.

Post automatically merged: Jul 15, 2022

till the very end Naoya didn’t change and didn’t recognized Maki.

 

[ConquistadoR]

To have a conclusion for Naoya and make him an ally, he always thought highly of Toji, fanboying him, thinking he was the one blessed to replace him, and now he will réalise and acknowledge that Maki is the new one.

Naoya still despised maki till the very end he didn’t change at all.

Why should that be done through a Culling Game Fight?

If Gege wanted Naoya to acknowledge Maki and become an Ally, it could've been done through the actual Maki vs Naoya fight itself which could end with Naoya joining the Protags as they head into Culling Games. Instead he had Naoya deny Maki's existence till the very end and die.

And we saw the previous fights during the culling game : a whole fight with Uro and Ryu and they ended up allies/neutral and they changed a little along the way, Higuruma the same he saved himself from the warpath he was in, Kashimo had a whole fight just for him to be ally in the end and to fight Sukuna.

It can be the same for Naoya, a fight to bring him to the right side, make him change a little etc

Difference is all those are Sorcerors who all have/had their own motivations fleshed out during the fight. Meanwhile Naoya's a Cursed Spirit, he's crossed over to the other side, I don't think he's ever coming back to the right side anymore.
Be honest, if Yuta/Yuji/Megumi/Hakari meet Naoya as he is now, they wouldn't think twice about exorcising him.

Naoya vs Maki was not an all out fight for Maki. Now with the worm Gege can show different things : Kamo strength, Maki going 100%, the change of a character who became a curse, maybe a domain for Naoya because he became a special grade curse spirit etc etc. Gege can do lot of things here.

Gege can probably talk about how the process of a Sorceror becoming a Cursed Spirit happens. I'm interested in that for sure!
Mainly, him turning into a Curse is Maki's fault since she didn't kill Naoya using a Cursed Tool but rather let him die. He ended up being killed by Maki's mother without using Cursed Energy so he's back as a Curse I guess.

 

[RayanOO]

Why should that be done through a Culling Game Fight?

If Gege wanted Naoya to acknowledge Maki and become an Ally, it could've been done through the actual Maki vs Naoya fight itself which could end with Naoya joining the Protags as they head into Culling Games. Instead he had Naoya deny Maki's existence till the very end and die.



Difference is all those are Sorcerors who all have/had their own motivations fleshed out during the fight. Meanwhile Naoya's a Cursed Spirit, he's crossed over to the other side, I don't think he's ever coming back to the right side anymore.
Be honest, if Yuta/Yuji/Megumi/Hakari meet Naoya as he is now, they wouldn't think twice about exorcising him.


Gege can probably talk about how the process of a Sorceror becoming a Cursed Spirit happens. I'm interested in that for sure!
Mainly, him turning into a Curse is Maki's fault since she didn't kill Naoya using a Cursed Tool but rather let him die. He ended up being killed by Maki's mother without using Cursed Energy so he's back as a Curse I guess.

So you’re telling me it’s good writing / make sense to make Naoya coming back as a curse, beat him easy and kill him ?

For me it’s far more stupid than making something out of Naoya revival.

Why should that be done through a Culling Game Fight?

If Gege wanted Naoya to acknowledge Maki and become an Ally, it could've been done through the actual Maki vs Naoya fight itself which could end with Naoya joining the Protags as they head into Culling Game. Instead he had deny Maki's existence till the very end and die.

And why it can’t be done by a culling game fight ? Gege chose to bring back Naoya it obviously mean he has plan for him. And wanted him to do something during the culling game.

Difference is all those are Sorcerors who all have/had their own motivations fleshed out during the fight. Meanwhile Naoya's a Cursed Spirit, he's crossed over to the other side, I don't think he's ever coming back to the right side anymore.
Be honest, if Yuta/Yuji/Megumi/Hakari meet Naoya as he is now, they wouldn't think twice about exorcising him.

I don’t understand your point with Yuta/Yuji etc. Here Gege put Naoya against Maki again. He doesn’t choose someone else. But Maki. So it means he has a plan for them.

And we saw how Toji always had a curse spirit with him all the time, why not Maki ?

 

[Yoru]

Ive seen from the spoiler an image naoya become maki pet.
Its really great if that rrally happen, naoya really hate maki after all lol

 

[ConquistadoR]

So you’re telling me it’s good writing / make sense to make Naoya coming back as a curse, beat him easy and kill him ?

For me it’s far more stupid than making something out of Naoya revival.

And why it can’t be done by a culling game fight ? Gege chose to bring back Naoya it obviously mean he has plan for him. And wanted him to do something during the culling game.

I'm not saying it's Good Writing or Bad Writing, don't get me wrong bruv.
I'm saying that whatever Gege can accomplish with Naoya with him acknowledging Maki and following her, could've been done an arc ago when it was Naoya's & Maki's main arc.

And why it can’t be done by a culling game fight ? Gege chose to bring back Naoya it obviously mean he has plan for him. And wanted him to do something during the culling game.

Yeah but I doubt that he would have Naoya as the main fight and put him through another character arc with character development to achieve the conclusion that he could've achieved much earlier without turning Naoya into a Worm.

I don’t understand your point with Yuta/Yuji etc. Here Gege put Naoya against Maki again. He doesn’t choose someone else. But Maki. So it means he has a plan for them.

And we saw how Toji always had a curse spirit with him all the time, why not Maki ?

Bro, if by ally you mean pet - then the comparision between Kashimo/Ryu & Uro/Higurama and Naoya don't even make sense anymore.

The Worm Spirit that Toji had was an Inventory Spirit, a third-fourth Grade cursed spirit, that was tamed as a pet and used as a tool.

Spoiler

Is that what you want Worm Naoya to end up as? Maki's pet?