Character Discussion Who were better as a villian: Crocodile and Doflamingo or Kaido and Big Mom?

Who were better as a villian: Crocodile and doflamingo or Kaido and big mom?


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#41
Doffy is Oda's best written antagonist although not his most effective one. Probably the only antagonist in the series who can show a vulnerable side and appear scarier from it.

Arguably, Crocodile is Oda's most effective antagonist. Alabasta was a slow burn of many smaller arcs and Crocodile himself was the first hard wall Luffy ever ran into. Combined with his James Bond aesthetics, multi-layered plan to cause havoc in Alubarna and the fact Luffy lucked into beating him makes Crocodile such an iconic villain.

Kaido & Linlin aren't even good antagonists let alone better than Oda's best. Kaido's goals are nebulous and he just wants to make a massive war. At least with Doffy, he had a deep set grudge against the World Government and had a reason to pursue such an outcome. Kaido just wants it but doesn't seem like the type to want the fame, power or luxury that'd come with it. He's just a barbarian.

There's an appeal in that, but for the big bad set up from chapter 650~ until now, I'd hope for something deeper and for Kaido to have more of a personality. He's pretty one note.

Linlin's got some complexity but it feels like every new side we learn about her contradicts the previous. She's an obvious gag character and that shows in her own arc. I do like the fact she's got her own nation, her own concrete plans and is theoretically smarter than Kaido. But she has almost no presence and her own cartoonish failures keeps me from taking this character seriously.

So Doffy & Crocoboy are much better. I think Kaido & Linlin fall short of average for Oda whereas the other two are some of the better examples of antagonists
Great summary! A few additions of my own - I believe Kaido is yet to show his real goals.

I believe he tried to stop WB from the marineford war before Evil Shanks intervened.

I believe Kaido tried to become Joy Boy but failed and that his goal of world war is not due to his lust for sheer destruction but rather is his attempt to take down the WG, an end goal which will ultimately fail due to the onigashima war but in the end will become reality trough the Strawhats and Blackbeard. We might even see Kaido in prison laugh and say, good job Mugiwara, or should I say Joy Boy?

I believe he inherited the will of Rocks and has been doing his utmost to accomplish his captains dream with whatever means necessary. We've already seen how he, for a warmongering yonko, has a compassionate side towards those close to him (King, Big Mom, Jack, Yamato) and Oden. He values strength above all and had to build himself up through the years as it is the only way to decide how you live or die in One Piece but he also respects those who are decently strong even if they can't compare to himself (Jack vs Minks).

Linlin on the other hand seems to inhabit different souls (personalities). When Mother Caramel (active Big Mom) was knocked out Linlin (O-Lin) gained commando of her body. She is childish but ultimately friendly like Majin Boo. Now we just need to find her Mr Satan (Hercules). Luffy, Momo, Aisa or someone in Elbaf might sense this and thus Big Mom won't be defeated but Mother Caramel will be defeated/ousted leaving O-Lin as Elbafs protector and WCI, which generally speaking is a paradise, free of her terror.
 
#42
Thier purpose is completely different, cant actually compare them.
Kaido and big mom act like powerhouses, impenetrable beasts the protagonists must overcome, to achieve their final goals. They pretty much are the typical final bosses style characters and if the protagonists fail to defeat them, the story cant progress.
On the other hand oda had much more freedom with crocodile and doffy bc they didnt serve any specific purpose in the story. They were created to make the plot better and more complex. Even if straw hats had never met them, the story could still progress with no significant changes. The shichibukai are rebels, free spirits that can do whatever they want. Oda made them charismatic, complex characters bc he simply could do so.

For those who know.... who was the most appealing character in devil may cry 1? Was it Mundus(=kaido, big mom) or was it Nelo Angelo(=doffy, crocodile)? Well, most would agree that Angelo was far more interesting than Mundus.
 

Roronoa-sama

Magic Sword, Magic Swordsman, and Can Cut Anything
#43
Thier purpose is completely different, cant actually compare them.
Kaido and big mom act like powerhouses, impenetrable beasts the protagonists must overcome, to achieve their final goals. They pretty much are the typical final bosses style characters and if the protagonists fail to defeat them, the story cant progress.
On the other hand oda had much more freedom with crocodile and doffy bc they didnt serve any specific purpose in the story. They were created to make the plot better and more complex. Even if straw hats had never met them, the story could still progress with no significant changes. The shichibukai are rebels, free spirits that can do whatever they want. Oda made them charismatic, complex characters bc he simply could do so.

For those who know.... who was the most appealing character in devil may cry 1? Was it Mundus(=kaido, big mom) or was it Nelo Angelo(=doffy, crocodile)? Well, most would agree that Angelo was far more interesting than Mundus.
that isn't true due madara and nakato were created like final boss (bm and kaido) but they also had good plot and they were complex
 
#44
I think that kaido and big mom are far more complex and interesting than nagato. Nagato's story was this: gentle boy feels pain, gentle boy becomes angry and wishes revenge, loses to protagonists and realises he was wrong all along. Its a simplistic character meant to be related to teenagers. He had the typical god complex too.

I disagree with madara being this kind of villain.
Madara wasnt initially the pinacle of power as kaido and big mom always were. He is more like a donflamingo who found a way to become a kaido. Kaguya is the one who seems to have a similar role as the two yonkos although they are in my opinion much better characters than her.
 
#45
I love Linlin but I gotta go with the two first. Kaido as a villain has been bad
Linlin's been alright in WCI ( as a villain again )
Crocodile was awesome
Doflamingo was perfect
 
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Roronoa-sama

Magic Sword, Magic Swordsman, and Can Cut Anything
#46
I think that kaido and big mom are far more complex and interesting than nagato. Nagato's story was this: gentle boy feels pain, gentle boy becomes angry and wishes revenge, loses to protagonists and realises he was wrong all along. Its a simplistic character meant to be related to teenagers. He had the typical god complex too.

I disagree with madara being this kind of villain.
Madara wasnt initially the pinacle of power as kaido and big mom always were. He is more like a donflamingo who found a way to become a kaido. Kaguya is the one who seems to have a similar role as the two yonkos although they are in my opinion much better characters than her.
5 great shinobi countries joined due madara (fake) declarated a war. One of the leader was afraid from him. Indeed madara was in power like xebec not kaido (who is more like nakato strong but not a lot of than the admirals)

Madara (xebec)>5 kages (admirals)
nagato (kaido)=>1 kage (admiral)
 

Roronoa-sama

Magic Sword, Magic Swordsman, and Can Cut Anything
#48
So you guys know I'm far from being an Admiral fan :suresure:but what the fuck is that ?
eos bb will be stronger than 3 admirals (not akainu) so if you compare with xebec the prime wb captain i can see stronger than 3 fugitores or greenbull.
eos luffy=>3 admirals
eos zoro=>2 admirals
eos sanji=>1 admirals
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
#49
eos bb will be stronger than 3 admirals (not akainu) so if you compare with xebec the prime wb captain i can see stronger than 3 fugitores or greenbull.
eos luffy=>3 admirals
eos zoro=>2 admirals
eos sanji=>1 admirals
I think Teach might be able to defeat 2 by EoS but mostly thanks to his Yami.

EoS Luffy might not manage to defeat 2 admirals at the same time, at least not before the Im events eventually unfold.
 
#50
Not really a fair comparison when we haven't seen the full scope of Kaido and Big Mom yet. Or to group them together like that(liking Kaido quite a bit more than Big Meme rn)
 
#51
Crocodile and Doflamingo. The two has great charisma,great designs,and plot-wise,their plans were better!
Crocodile's plan was a mastermind and smart plan,a plan that makes really wonder if he was really tied to the Revolutionary Army in the past (they are expert in overthrowing a government). Doflamingo's plan was even better because it actually worked,and Luffy came to ruin it only years later.
Kaido and Big Mom,on the other way? Kaido had only luck (Oden going away,and when he comes back,he decides to do nothing for five years) and he made a good use of his spy,otherwise his plan would have failed. Big Mom,we cant really understand if she is the one who created all Tottoland or her mentor Streussen. Lame characters.
 
#52
Crocodile- ah, the best. A pure, unrepentant dick just for the sake of being a pure unrepentant dick. He’ll probably get some bug flashback later on, but he didn’t need it in Alabasta, he just carried the arc by being suave as fuck, strong as fuck and always being able to plan on his feet. Strawhats get the better of him at Rain Base? Well, he’ll just hunt down Luff and near murder him. Stopped one bomb? Hah, another bomb there already. Compared to the other four villains talked about here, he really does show that at times, simple is best. There’s nothing overly complicated about Croc, but he’s still a great villain.

Doflamingo- I’m not that massive a fan of him as a villain compared to others here. His relationship with Law carried a lot of Dressrosa on it’s back, that‘s one huge thing in his favour. In Dressrosa he slightly annoyed me, however, because despite having this puppeteer mastermind imagery, him saying he wouldn’t underestimate the Strawhats… he then proceeded to grasp a hold of the idiot ball and really underestimate the Strawhats, and everyone else on the island. And he outstayed his welcome in the end- the bit where we had to wait for Luffy to recover fighting him when it was a foregone conclusion after the first round of G4 was painful to read.

Someone who’s weaknesses were off-set by him having a fairly interesting personality. Unfortunately for the two Yonko coming up, the same can’t be said for them.

Big Mom- ah, Big Mom… so close to being brilliant (no sarcasm here) but just continually falls short

When Oda is actually bothering to treat her with respect she’s actually very, very good. She’s a psychotic, self-obsessed crime matriarch. If she doesn’t get want she wants she’ll rip apart anything that opposes her. She also, despite her childish nature, has a nasty, cunning, frightening side about her. The first two-thirds of WCI, Big Mom is genuinely one of the best things about it.

But then Big Meme rears her ugly head. And Big Meme has ruined her.

The idea of her being an unstoppable unreasonable monster when she got hungry was a good one on paper, but the way it was written, she just became a Loony Tunes joke. For all she was meant to be this terrifying threat, Perospero was actually more effective in chasing the Strawhats. She was getting humiliated not just by Jinbei, but by Brook (repeatedly), Nami and Chopper, who, with the best will in the world, should not be standing up to a Yonko.

Now her presence has mostly vanished, because you never know if Oda’s going to have some slapstick comedy with her around the corner. Look at Onigashima, one minute she’s involved in a big badass fight with the Worst Gen, the next she’s being battered in the face by Franky on a motorbike. And for all One Piece has always had humour throughout it, Oda would never humiliate Crocodile, Doflamingo or Kaido, for example, the way he has Big Mom

Kaido- I don’t know what to think of jim, because Oda still hasn’t told me despite this arc lasting so long. I know what Kaido wants, but I don’t know why. Why’s he obsessed with Wano? Why does he want to die? What does he stand to gain from anything he’s doing? He’s got goals and aspirations that go beyond generic villainy, but we’re not really getting anything about the reasons behind it, and we do kind of need those reasons to get a grasp of the character. Because his personality isn’t really interesting enough to carry him until we get those answers.
 
#55
Can't give it to Big Mom and Kaido because Big Mom in Wano has been a Big Meme. Legit no threat felt when Big Mom is around because she joins the good guys side. Big Mom in WCI on the other hand is an excellent character and villain. As for Kaido I think there is still more to him that we don't know so I will wait and see what Oda has planned.

Doffy and Croc are better villains and I doubt Kaido and Big Mom can surpass them.
 
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