Speculations Why big mom is almost assured to be plotting to betray Kaido

#1
so going into this chapter, I presumed this to be like the beginning of the marineford war. We'd have Luffy and Kidd sailing into the harbor being faced down by kaido and his army of beast pirates. Yet, unexpectedly, this didn't happen and there is no real reason why it shouldn't have happened. Last chapter we saw Kanjuro flying off with momonosuke, ready to inform Kaido about the alliance's plans.

Kaido should have gotten this message. But what happened? It cannot be that Kaido is just pretending to be unaware of the allies plans.

we see that when the allies come into onigashima, the beast pirates are utterly unaware of what is going on. They are not expecting them. Then we see Queen putting on his whole hype show. Is that really what he would be doing if Onigashima was really about to be under seige?

The only logical conclusion is this. Kaido didn't receive Kanjuro's message and that something must have happened to Kanjuro. Enter big mom. There is no way that big mom can be defeated this arc if she is an antagonist. It simply isn't possible. Garp said himself that if Big Mom and Kaido allied, there would be nothing even the marines could do about it. With Kaido being as big of a threat that he is, big mom simply cannot be an antagonist this arc.

So what is going to happen? I think its pretty likely that big mom will betray Kaido and that she was the person who intercepted Kanjuro's message. Why?

first off you have jinbe's escape, which honestly seems very improbable. He was cornered by a yonko. Even if he could swim, big mom had her sea homie, which would have prevented him from escaping easily. Not to mention big mom could easily create another zeus and thundershock the entire ocean. Overall, I think something happened between Jinbe and big mom that we do not know of.

then you have zeus. As we know, Napoleon can send and receive signals from the other homies. So there is no reason why he couldn't have been in contact with zeus this entire time. If he was, then that would mean that big mom would know everything that is occurring. She would know all of the alliance's plans up since when Nami took zeus. If she was truly allies with Kaido, she would have told him all of what she knows.

Lastly, there is big mom's personality. Big Mom, while she might seem like a moron when she is on her hunger rampage, she was actually shown to be quite an intelligent person. While Big Mom might hate Luffy and want him dead, she also recognizes the power that Luffy has. When Luffy came into WCI, beat two of her commanders, and destroyed much of her crew and island, she most likely realized how dangerous Luffy can be.


While previously, she doubted if Luffy could beat Kaido, I think its very likely that his victory over Katakuri might have changed things. With her recognizing Luffy's potential, she would also recognize the immense opportunity that was given to her. That Luffy could actually help her bring down one of her biggest rivals, Kaido. Big Mom would let jinbe go, and all the while, she would come to wano under the pretense of killing Luffy. She would forge an alliance with Kaido, all the while secretly planning on backstabbing him. She would make sure that the alliance's plans don't fail, and when the alliance declares war on Kaido, she would go for his head.

EDIT: one extra point I want to make. Many people suspect that the mid trio and weak trio will take on the tobi roppo but the powerscaling we have seen so far makes this simply illogical. The tobi roppo are on a higher rank than hawkins and apoo. Drake was beating Sanji in full zoan form and Page one, the weakest tobi roppo, sent raid suit Sanji flying through a city block with just one swipe. The mid trio and weak trio cannot beat them.

However that leaves the question of who will beat Maria and Ulti, as Oda won't have a man defeat those two. If Big Mom was secretly planning on betraying Kaido, we could have Smoothie vs Black Maria and Ulti vs Compote. This would give some screen time to two very powerful but very underutilized big mom pirates. Black maria is also a giant and Smoothie can use her fruit to enlarge herself so the matchup makes perfect sense.
 
Last edited:
#2
The problem is, Big Mom has nothing to gain by betraying Kaido. She's there to kill Luffy, that's her primary goal. Imo, a fight between both Yonko isnt being setup. They fought for multiple days and it led to them only teaming up.

Just my opinion, but I think the combined effort of 6 Supernova captains, 8 oden retainers, Neko's allied help, and possibly Drake's Sword backup and the rest of the Strawhats will be enough to take on these monsters. This will be the point where the world takes these "rookies" seriously, however many join under Luffy's flag in the end or something.
 
#5
The problem is, Big Mom has nothing to gain by betraying Kaido. She's there to kill Luffy, that's her primary goal. Imo, a fight between both Yonko isnt being setup. They fought for multiple days and it led to them only teaming up.
What do you mean? By betraying Kaido, she could kill one of her biggest rivals. Killing Luffy is the only objective she stated she has, she could have hidden goals. If she betrayed kaido, she would be in a position to both kill Kaido and Luffy.

And I'm not saying we will have a yonko fight. I think Kaido is planning on betraying big mom as well. If Kaido somehow came to know about the truth of mother carmel, he could use it against big mom and have her be taken out of the fight prematurely.
 
#6
What do you mean? By betraying Kaido, she could kill one of her biggest rivals. Killing Luffy is the only objective she stated she has, she could have hidden goals. If she betrayed kaido, she would be in a position to both kill Kaido and Luffy.

And I'm not saying we will have a yonko fight. I think Kaido is planning on betraying big mom as well. If Kaido somehow came to know about the truth of mother carmel, he could use it against big mom and have her be taken out of the fight prematurely.
I just don't think so, like other people have said, she suggested the alliance with Kaido to kill Luffy as he slipped right under her nose. They fought, and decided it was right until one-day when they they'll kill each other after taking over the world.

I don't think it will be turned on at this point.
 
#7
I just don't think so, like other people have said, she suggested the alliance with Kaido to kill Luffy as he slipped right under her nose. They fought, and decided it was right until one-day when they they'll kill each other after taking over the world.

I don't think it will be turned on at this point.
Stop it... Big Mom was the one who suggested the alliance for "old times sake". Why would she betray him? Kaido also owes her a favour she wants to cash in.

And this Jinbe talking point is quite honestly disrespectful.
You're acting as if two characters who have been proved to lie in the past are incapable of telling lies for their own self gain.

big mom doesn't need an alliance with Kaido. If she can kill Kaido, she can turn the beast pirates into homies, which would already make her stronger than the other yonko.

Kaido and Big Mom are complete opposites. Big Mom wants to create a utopia. Kaido turned his country into a hellhole and wants to declare war on the world. There's no reason for them to ally.
 
#8
I mean, there's no evidence to suggest otherwise. Oda already hyped their teamup with Marines not intervening and their teamup being a major problem

Sure, maybe you are right, but realize that would be the same type of betrayal already seen twice at WCI's party. I don't personally see it happening here again.
 
#9
I mean, there's no evidence to suggest otherwise. Oda already hyped their teamup with Marines not intervening and their teamup being a major problem

Sure, maybe you are right, but realize that would be the same type of betrayal already seen twice at WCI's party. I don't personally see it happening here again.
the entire reason why the rocks pirates fell apart is because nobody on the rocks crew could get along with each other. Xebec held the crew together and when he died, everyone went their separate ways.

Kaido and big mom have been rivals for 40 years now. All of the sudden they just decide to be friends because they battle it out for a day or two? That just doesn't make sense imo.

it was even stated back in punk hazard that most pirate alliances end in betrayal and this cannot be more true in regards to big mom and kaido, who hated each other up until 5 seconds ago.

the marines hyped up the big mom kaido alliance to be invincible. Something that even the marines wouldn't be able to handle. It honestly seems impossible for anyone to defeat big mom.
 
H

Homelander

#10
I agree big mom will not fall by underestimating strawhat pirates.

Kanjuro not meeting up with kaido is strange move. Jinbei still did not mention how did he escape from big mom ?

Its mystery jinbei arrived at same time big mom were in onigashima.


If big mom pirates captured kanjuro and stopped the messanger. Big mom wants strawhat pirates to enter onigashima .

However we need to look at how devious big mom is , it can be possible itsa false act and everything is ok in kaidos camp is weird.



I am certain big mom has plans and reason behind alliance with kaido is murky.

Big mom might be playing her card . This looks very similar to whole cake island how shp got fooled by pudding .

This might be trap for samurai and shp . Its odd how defense of onigashima is weak from exterior.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
H

Homelander

#11
Stop it... Big Mom was the one who suggested the alliance for "old times sake". Why would she betray him? Kaido also owes her a favour she wants to cash in.

And this Jinbe talking point is quite honestly disrespectful.
And you think big mom will honor it. Time has shown big mom lies . She will never honor it , also the truce might not be due to luffy. They are trying to revive xebec s goal and kaido needs enough people to start a war.
 
#12
I wont excluse the possiblity of her betraying Kaido at some point, but i doubt there is a grand plan behind this. If she wanted to capitalize on the Kaido-Luffy war, shed have brought her whole crew
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
#13
I hope Big Mom isn't dumb enough to try and double cross Kaido in his own home, with a fraction of her power. She might get away, but I'm certain her family itself wouldn't. Even factoring in the Alliance's involvement, there's no way she gets out unscathed.

Personally would rather have her not betray Kaido also because that makes the Alliance's efforts a bit weakened.
first off you have jinbe's escape, which honestly seems very improbable. He was cornered by a yonko. Even if he could swim, big mom had her sea homie, which would have prevented him from escaping easily. Not to mention big mom could easily create another zeus and thundershock the entire ocean. Overall, I think something happened between Jinbe and big mom that we do not know of.
This feels weak. Jinbe + the Sun Pirates + all of Germa versus significantly weakened BMPs and he can't escape? 2/4 of their top commanders were out of commission. 10k men defeated by the Germa alone before going into the battle. A whole fleet crippled.

It's entirely feesable that Jinbe escaped.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝕴𝖓 𝕿𝖍𝖎𝖘 𝖂𝖔𝖗𝖑𝖉 𝕺𝖓𝖑𝖞 𝕴 𝖆𝖒 𝕶𝖎𝖓𝖌
#14
Well, I guess Jack could one shot her then too. Then we'd have a complete cycle and all three calamities one shoting Linlin. Although, given his track record, he'll probably job at that.



Garp said himself that if Big Mom and Kaido allied, there would be nothing even the marines could do about it.
Are you implying that the Navy cannot stop Linlin and Kaido at all? Because Garp said that at the moment the navy cannot send out forces to stop them due to the Reverie.
but the Yonko only felt comfortable meeting precisely because of the Reverie.
 
#15
I hope Big Mom isn't dumb enough to try and double cross Kaido in his own home, with a fraction of her power. She might get away, but I'm certain her family itself wouldn't. Even factoring in the Alliance's involvement, there's no way she gets out unscathed.
Are you suggesting that the alliance would lose?

Big Mom can take care of herself. Her bounty is higher than shanks's for god's sake. Same for her crew. She brought a ton of high level fighters with her and if that's not enough she could always create homies. Big Mom is basically a 1 man army.
Well, I guess Jack could one shot her then too. Then we'd have a complete cycle and all three calamities one shoting Linlin. Although, given his track record, he'll probably job at that.




Are you implying that the Navy cannot stop Linlin and Kaido at all? Because Garp said that at the moment the navy cannot send out forces to stop them due to the Reverie.
but the Yonko only felt comfortable meeting precisely because of the Reverie.
Garp said that if Big Mom and Kaido allied, there was nothing the marines could do about it. Perhaps he was saying this only because it was reverie, but even still. I think it would be massively underestimating the yonko to suggest that the alliance could take out 2 of them right now.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝕴𝖓 𝕿𝖍𝖎𝖘 𝖂𝖔𝖗𝖑𝖉 𝕺𝖓𝖑𝖞 𝕴 𝖆𝖒 𝕶𝖎𝖓𝖌
#16
Perhaps he was saying this only because it was reverie, but even still.
Not perhaps. He said it precisely because of the Reverie. It's all in the scan my man.

'It's the Reverie right now! Any force capable of stopping them is dedicated to protecting the royalty. '
If the Reverie wasn't happening at the moment, the Marines would send the forces to stop them.

I think it would be massively underestimating the yonko to suggest that the alliance could take out 2 of them right now.
I mean probably, but that has nothing to do with what I said.
 
#19
Whether BM is betraying Kaido or not, "she suggested they team up, why would she betray him?" isn't much of an argument against her. She was stranded in the middle of enemy territory with her crew unable to get to her, it wouldn't exactly be outside of the realms of possibility that she suggested an alliance she has not intentions of living up to (very in-character of her) to save her own skin.

BM is always looking for opportunities. If Kaido's looking on top and she gets a chance to get revenge on Luffy, she'll work with him. If she sees a chance to backstab Kaido and get away with it, that's what she'll do.
 
Top