The Sanctity of the Monster Trio
Several people have told me that Yamato is going to fall well behind the Monster Trio, and point to Jimbe and Franky as examples of shiny new additions that did not disturb the balance of the crew.
In both cases, Jimbe and Franky looked like formidable fighters, but it was quickly made clear that they were not to be on the level of the Monster Trio.
In Franky's case this was made abundantly clear in the very arc he joined (Enies Lobby) where he was paired up against an opponent that was more than 3 times weaker than Sanji's.
In Jimbe's case, it has also been made clear in the arc he joins where he's paired up with an opponent that's significantly weaker than Sanji's (Sanji gets Queen while Jimbe gets Who's Who).
If the analogy argument from Jimbe and Franky were to be correct, Yamato being weaker than Sanji should be made clear as she's paired up with an opponent that's significantly weaker than Queen (presumably Jack). That might still happen, but for now, it looks like Yamato's arc opponent is her father (a la Law and Doflamingo), and it's not clearly the case that she will fight someone else after. Luffy will return to defeat Kaido, but this doesn't necessarily free Yamato up to face Jack:
Yamato fucking off to fight Jack does nothing for the story, and it does nothing for her character. She actually needs to witness Kaido's defeat. She doesn't need to witness Jack's.
So the argument isn't actually holding up. Franky did not fight Lucci, Jimbe isn't fighting Kaido.
The first major prediction of the Monster Trio sanctity argument tentatively looks like a failure. Things could easily change later on. I might well be wrong about the nature of Yamato vs Kaido, Oda could still write Yamato vs Jack, but at this juncture, events haven't developed how I would expect them to develop if the Monster Trio sanctity argument is true. So my credence in it has been lowered.
The Stature of Jimbe and Franky
This is my other main objection. Yamato isn't actually an analogue for Jimbe or Franky. Franky was no one impressive in the grand scheme of things. He had no impressive heritage, no outstanding reputation or portrayal, nothing, in particular, to make us think he was exceptionally strong. And this was made clear in the very arc he joined.
Jimbe is different. He's a former Shichibukai and has some status in the One Piece world. We actually had reasons to believe that Jimbe was powerful, and he has some pretty decent feats:
Beyond that, among the Shichibukai his bounty was frozen at 250M, and he seemed to be considerably weaker than the likes of Doflamingo.
Jimbe's best feat in the series was blocking Sakazuki's magma fist at Marineford. He doesn't seem to have grown in any noticeable manner between pre skip and post skip. Two years before Marineford, he stalemated a Rookie, Ace. Ace later stood up after their battle to confront Whitebeard, so he was at least slightly stronger.
It's not clear to me that Jimbe is at all superior to Rookie Ace. I think roughly:
Rookie Ace ~ Jimbe 4 years ago ~ Jimbe at Marineford ~ Jimbe now. There isn't any indication that he grew stronger over the four years. Now that he's a Strawhat, we can expect Jimbe to grow stronger in future. Brook had been stagnant for several decades but started growing again when he joined the crew.
Jimbe had status and standing, but no highlighted portrayal and no special growth rate.
Yamato is Special
Yamato is very unlike Jimbe and Franky. As a nakama candidate, she's quite unprecedented in the stature she holds, and is much more analogous to someone like Ace than to either of Jimbe and Franky.
Heritage
She's the only child of the very strongest in the world:
She further seems to have inherited her Father's abnormal durability:
The blood of the strongest creature flows very strongly through her.
Yamato's heritage β in particular, that she takes after her father so strongly β suggests that her potential should be near his.
The only nearly analogous example is Ace (and perhaps Luffy).
Yamato's ceiling is at the very peak of the One Piece world.
Upbringing
Not only does Yamato bear the blood of the strongest creature, she was also raised by him to maximise her potential.
She uses the same weapon as Kaido:
She can perfectly replicate Kaido's signature technique:
Yamato clearly has the infamous "Top Tier Training" that Zoro fans have long argued demonstrated that post skip Sanji was incomparable to Zoro as a combatant (to be clear, I agree with this). I'm not sure why this argument isn't applied to Yamato. Kaido probably did not train her for all of 20 years, but he has trained her in his chosen combat style to a great extent.
More than that, she's improved on the combat style he taught her and developed her own original techniques. For example, She's capable of applications of Busoshoku we've yet to see from Kaido.
Barrier Ryuo for offence:
Bushokoku projectiles:
The Busoshoku projectiles are something we've only previously seen from Roger:
Kaido also seems to have provided her with a considerably powerful Devil Fruit:
Kaido has high ambitions for Yamato, he raised her as a fierce warrior in order to make her the Shogun of New Onigashima:
Yamato is no Katakuri. Kaido does not see her as a "lowly child", but she's an integral part of his grand designs for the world. Yamato is Kaido's greatest creation. She's his pride. Even when she comes to bear her fangs at him, he still wants her to address him as Father:
Ace was raised by a Top Tier in Whitebeard, but only for the last 2 years of his Pirate Journey. Yamato was likely trained by her father since childhood.
Parallels WIth Ace
As if to further reinforce the similarities to and parallels with Ace, Oda actually had Ace and Yamato fight.
Prisoner Yamato (she couldn't use her Devil Fruit because of her shackles) stalemated Rookie Ace (the same version of Ace that fought Jimbe):
Ace commented that she was too strong to not be a captain:
Ace said this of an Emperor's crew. Of course, Yamato was nowhere near an Emperor in combat ability, but this line from Ace reinforces that her potential is certainly there.
Further stressing the similarities between them, Ace and Yamato bonded over their shared hatred of their parents:
Yamato is a near-perfect analogue for Ace.
Conclusions
We're left with a situation where:
The arguments that Yamato will fall behind Sanji if she joins the crew as Jimbe and Franky did always fall flat to me because Yamato is so very dissimilar to them. I always ask myself: "so how far does the sanctity of the Monster Trio argument go? If Law became a nakama after Wano, will he fall behind Sanji as well? What if Ace had joined the crew?"
Ace did not join the crew, but Yamato might. And I see no reason why we should ignore Yamato's so very different circumstances and make analogues from characters that are nothing like her.
Arguments by analogy require the similarities to be strong to work. If you told me that after Wano Luffy low diffs Zoro because most Emperors low diff their strongest subordinates, I wouldn't accept it. Zoro is no analogue for most YC 1s; likewise, Yamato is no analogue for Sanji and Jimbe.
I'll probably update this thread in the future when more information is brought to light regarding Yamato's peculiar circumstances.
Several people have told me that Yamato is going to fall well behind the Monster Trio, and point to Jimbe and Franky as examples of shiny new additions that did not disturb the balance of the crew.
In both cases, Jimbe and Franky looked like formidable fighters, but it was quickly made clear that they were not to be on the level of the Monster Trio.
In Franky's case this was made abundantly clear in the very arc he joined (Enies Lobby) where he was paired up against an opponent that was more than 3 times weaker than Sanji's.
In Jimbe's case, it has also been made clear in the arc he joins where he's paired up with an opponent that's significantly weaker than Sanji's (Sanji gets Queen while Jimbe gets Who's Who).
If the analogy argument from Jimbe and Franky were to be correct, Yamato being weaker than Sanji should be made clear as she's paired up with an opponent that's significantly weaker than Queen (presumably Jack). That might still happen, but for now, it looks like Yamato's arc opponent is her father (a la Law and Doflamingo), and it's not clearly the case that she will fight someone else after. Luffy will return to defeat Kaido, but this doesn't necessarily free Yamato up to face Jack:
- Yamato more than anyone else needs to see Kaido defeated.
- Rolling with the Law analogy, she might get a scene like this:
- Rolling with the Law analogy, she might get a scene like this:
- Yamato wanted to fight Kaido alongside Luffy, and this could happen when he returns:
Yamato fucking off to fight Jack does nothing for the story, and it does nothing for her character. She actually needs to witness Kaido's defeat. She doesn't need to witness Jack's.
So the argument isn't actually holding up. Franky did not fight Lucci, Jimbe isn't fighting Kaido.
The first major prediction of the Monster Trio sanctity argument tentatively looks like a failure. Things could easily change later on. I might well be wrong about the nature of Yamato vs Kaido, Oda could still write Yamato vs Jack, but at this juncture, events haven't developed how I would expect them to develop if the Monster Trio sanctity argument is true. So my credence in it has been lowered.
The Stature of Jimbe and Franky
This is my other main objection. Yamato isn't actually an analogue for Jimbe or Franky. Franky was no one impressive in the grand scheme of things. He had no impressive heritage, no outstanding reputation or portrayal, nothing, in particular, to make us think he was exceptionally strong. And this was made clear in the very arc he joined.
Jimbe is different. He's a former Shichibukai and has some status in the One Piece world. We actually had reasons to believe that Jimbe was powerful, and he has some pretty decent feats:
- Blocking Sakazuki's magma fist
- Blocking Linlin's Cognac
Beyond that, among the Shichibukai his bounty was frozen at 250M, and he seemed to be considerably weaker than the likes of Doflamingo.
Jimbe's best feat in the series was blocking Sakazuki's magma fist at Marineford. He doesn't seem to have grown in any noticeable manner between pre skip and post skip. Two years before Marineford, he stalemated a Rookie, Ace. Ace later stood up after their battle to confront Whitebeard, so he was at least slightly stronger.
It's not clear to me that Jimbe is at all superior to Rookie Ace. I think roughly:
Rookie Ace ~ Jimbe 4 years ago ~ Jimbe at Marineford ~ Jimbe now. There isn't any indication that he grew stronger over the four years. Now that he's a Strawhat, we can expect Jimbe to grow stronger in future. Brook had been stagnant for several decades but started growing again when he joined the crew.
Jimbe had status and standing, but no highlighted portrayal and no special growth rate.
Yamato is Special
Yamato is very unlike Jimbe and Franky. As a nakama candidate, she's quite unprecedented in the stature she holds, and is much more analogous to someone like Ace than to either of Jimbe and Franky.
Heritage
She's the only child of the very strongest in the world:
She further seems to have inherited her Father's abnormal durability:
The blood of the strongest creature flows very strongly through her.
Yamato's heritage β in particular, that she takes after her father so strongly β suggests that her potential should be near his.
The only nearly analogous example is Ace (and perhaps Luffy).
Yamato's ceiling is at the very peak of the One Piece world.
Upbringing
Not only does Yamato bear the blood of the strongest creature, she was also raised by him to maximise her potential.
She uses the same weapon as Kaido:
She can perfectly replicate Kaido's signature technique:
Yamato clearly has the infamous "Top Tier Training" that Zoro fans have long argued demonstrated that post skip Sanji was incomparable to Zoro as a combatant (to be clear, I agree with this). I'm not sure why this argument isn't applied to Yamato. Kaido probably did not train her for all of 20 years, but he has trained her in his chosen combat style to a great extent.
More than that, she's improved on the combat style he taught her and developed her own original techniques. For example, She's capable of applications of Busoshoku we've yet to see from Kaido.
Barrier Ryuo for offence:
Bushokoku projectiles:
The Busoshoku projectiles are something we've only previously seen from Roger:
Kaido also seems to have provided her with a considerably powerful Devil Fruit:
Kaido has high ambitions for Yamato, he raised her as a fierce warrior in order to make her the Shogun of New Onigashima:
Yamato is no Katakuri. Kaido does not see her as a "lowly child", but she's an integral part of his grand designs for the world. Yamato is Kaido's greatest creation. She's his pride. Even when she comes to bear her fangs at him, he still wants her to address him as Father:
Ace was raised by a Top Tier in Whitebeard, but only for the last 2 years of his Pirate Journey. Yamato was likely trained by her father since childhood.
Parallels WIth Ace
As if to further reinforce the similarities to and parallels with Ace, Oda actually had Ace and Yamato fight.
Prisoner Yamato (she couldn't use her Devil Fruit because of her shackles) stalemated Rookie Ace (the same version of Ace that fought Jimbe):
Ace commented that she was too strong to not be a captain:
Ace said this of an Emperor's crew. Of course, Yamato was nowhere near an Emperor in combat ability, but this line from Ace reinforces that her potential is certainly there.
Further stressing the similarities between them, Ace and Yamato bonded over their shared hatred of their parents:
Yamato is a near-perfect analogue for Ace.
Conclusions
We're left with a situation where:
- Yamato has High Top Tier potential by virtue of her heritage.
- The blood of the strongest creature flows very strongly in her.
- Kaido has been raising her from childhood with the intention of maximising her potential.
- She was directly trained by the strongest in the world and likely for several years.
- Oda lampshaded directly how Yamato is a near-perfect analogue for Ace.
The arguments that Yamato will fall behind Sanji if she joins the crew as Jimbe and Franky did always fall flat to me because Yamato is so very dissimilar to them. I always ask myself: "so how far does the sanctity of the Monster Trio argument go? If Law became a nakama after Wano, will he fall behind Sanji as well? What if Ace had joined the crew?"
Ace did not join the crew, but Yamato might. And I see no reason why we should ignore Yamato's so very different circumstances and make analogues from characters that are nothing like her.
Arguments by analogy require the similarities to be strong to work. If you told me that after Wano Luffy low diffs Zoro because most Emperors low diff their strongest subordinates, I wouldn't accept it. Zoro is no analogue for most YC 1s; likewise, Yamato is no analogue for Sanji and Jimbe.
I'll probably update this thread in the future when more information is brought to light regarding Yamato's peculiar circumstances.
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