Current Events Why do People Expect Sanji to Solo a Calamity?

Sanji vs Calamities?


  • Total voters
    168
  • Poll closed .

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#1
Let alone two?

Are the Sanji vs King and Queen people serious? Is this some elaborate shitpost I'm missing out on? Is this coping because Sanji hasn't defeated a significant combatant solo in the New World?

I'm pretty flabbergasted. Luffy defeating Linlin in WCI seemed to have more going for it than Sanji taking down both Calamities.


Disclaimer
I don't actually hate Sanji and I'm annoyed at Sanji bashing. This is me being (perhaps brutally) honest.

As usual, I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction
Leaving aside Sanji taking down both Calamities, I'm not confident that Sanji will defeat any Calamity solo. I have been expecting Sanji to do this for a while, but I think it's time I reevaluate. There are three broad reasons I'm losing confidence in Sanji soloing a calamity:
  1. Increased scepticism of the meta-narrative
  2. Powerscaling might actually matter?
  3. Viability of a solo matchup given the events of the Live Floor


Increased Scepticism of the Meta Narrative
There's the traditional argument that Sanji will solo a Calamity (presumably Queen) because Queen feels the template of Sanji's traditional opponent:
  • He's a bit goofy.
  • Both love women (particularly Komurasaki)
  • He has a rivalry with Zoro's presumptive opponent (King).
  • He knows Sanji's father and addressed Sanji as "Judge's Son".
  • He mentioned the need to take down the Strawhats' strongest combatants.
  • He's the one that sent the Tobi Roppo after Sanji.

I agree that Queen is Sanji's presumptive opponent. However, recent events have undermined my confidence in Sanji defeating Queen solo.

Particularly:
  • Oda had Linlin defeat Usopp's presumptive opponent (Pay Pay).
  • Oda had Linlin defeat Nami's presumptive opponent (Ulti).
  • Oda had Carrot lose to her presumptive opponent (Perospero) and seems to have entirely discarded the opportunity for her to get vindicated in a rematch, instead of setting up someone else (Nekomamushi) to defeat them.

Meta/pattern-based arguments are looking less credible to me seeing as Oda appears to have consistently defied such patterns.

Nami vs Ulti in particular is very stark:

Nami had far more buildup with Ulti as her opponent than Sanji does with either of the Calamities:
  • Ulti defeated her already.
  • While Ulti was threatening her she declared that Luffy will not stop until he becomes Pirate King.
  • Ulti spent a while chasing her.
  • She struck down Ulti with her lightning (twice).
  • Ulti hurt Tama
  • She vowed that she will defeat Ulti.
  • She resolved herself to stop running and challenged Ulti head on.
And yet Nami doesn't get to defeat Ulti solo. Linlin took out Ulti. If Ulti recovers, she would likely be significantly weakened.

If Oda is willing to prevent Nami from taking down Ulti by herself despite the extensive build-up for Nami vs Ulti, then I don't think the superficial setup for Sanji vs Queen/King is sufficient to grant Sanji a solo victory.


The same argument that predicts Sanji soloing Queen also predicted:
  • Usopp soloing Page One
  • Nami soloing Ulti
  • Carrot defeating Perospero
  • Zoro never fighting Kaido
  • Zoro soloing King
    • In fairness, this might still happen.
This argument has a horrendous track record, so I'm pretty dubious of Sanji soloing Queen based on this argument alone.


Powerscaling Might Actually Matter?
Here I take my L. I've long been an advocate that narrative trumps powerscaling, and characters will become as strong as Oda needs them to be for the narrative. Well, I took a big fat L here:
  • Carrot was not strong enough to defeat Perospero and so she lost.
    • Someone that's actually strong enough (Nekomamushi) is facing Perospero instead.
  • Usopp was not strong enough to defeat Pay Pay and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) him.
  • Nami was not strong enough to defeat Ulti and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) her.

By his current showings, Sanji is not strong enough to defeat Queen even when wearing the Raid Suit.

Sanji's best showings with the Raid Suit is failing to even damage a Tobi Roppo:

And being able to withstand an attack from one:

Sanji has nothing suggesting he's actually strong enough to defeat Queen. Before I didn't think that matters because I thought the narrative trumps powerscaling, but now I think powerscaling matters.

As far as powerscaling goes, Sanji has an absolutely horrendous track record in the New World:
  • He teamed up with Jimbe to take down Wadatsumi
  • He was treated by fodder like Law at Punk Hazard
  • He was on the back foot against a Vergo that was massively holding back
    • He wasn't using his Bamboo (his main weapon)
    • He wasn't using hardening
    • He didn't appear to be using Rokushiki techniques (bar possibly Tekkai)
  • He was fodderised by Doflamingo
  • He defeats Sheepshead together with Brook
    • Even then, Sheepshead is a fodder headliner
  • He failed to defeat Judge
    • Or even be depicted as stronger than him
  • He was never demonstrated to be above all his siblings
    • At the end of WCI, Niji still had to save him and mocked him for being way too slow.
  • He did not defeat any of the Charlotte siblings in WCI
  • He failed to defeat Page One even with his Raid Suit power-up
    • Page One has been portrayed as the weakest of the Tobi Roppo

Sanji's last solo victory against a significant opponent of note was pretimeskip. His combat ability presentation today has not been good. If powerscaling actually matters β€” if the narrative does not trump it β€” then I have no reason to believe that Sanji is strong enough to defeat Queen.


Viability of a Solo Matchup
Leaving aside the narrative and powerscaling counterarguments, I'm not sure the story actually allows Sanji to have a solo battle against any of the Calamities.

On the Alliance's side, we'll have:
  • Zoro
  • Marco
  • Sanji
  • Nekomamushi
  • Drake
  • Hyougoro
  • Kawamatsu
  • Izo
  • Chopper
  • The Yakuza Bosses

On the Beast Pirates side, we'll have:
  • King
  • Queen
  • Perospero
  • Apoo
    • He might defect or even go solo

I'll try and present the best-case scenario for Sanji:

  • Hyougoro and the Yakuza bosses deal with fodder or recover.
    • They don't fight anyone of note.
  • Nekomamushi fights Perospero
  • Chopper treats Zoro
  • Drake fights Apoo
  • Marco (or Zoro + Izo) deal with King

This still leaves at least Sanji and Kawamatsu to take on Queen.

And honestly speaking, I don't expect this to be how it shakes out. For entirely separate reasons, I doubt Zoro β€” even a brutally injured Zoro β€” would tag-team a swordsman with another one. FIghting despite injuries that would cripple anyone else is his entire shtick.

Exhibit A:


Exhibit B:


Exhibit C:


There may be others, but this isn't supposed to be a Zoro thread, so I'll stop here for now.

I also don't think Drake will fight Apoo. Queen backstabbing and discarding Apoo was really highlighted, and I got the impression that Apoo was reconsidering his entire allegiance to the Beast Pirates:


So I'm actually expecting Sanji to face Queen alongside some combination of (Drake, Kawamatsu and Izo).

Perhaps I'm wrong on Zoro and he'll face King with backup from Izo, and I'm wrong on Apoo and he'll face Drake, but that still leaves Kawamatsu unaccounted for. Ultimately, I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that permits Sanji to defeat Queen solo.

I expect Sanji to land the last hit, and maybe his support would be defeated along the way and the match would end in a 1 vs 1. I can see a Doflamingo vs Luffy and Law situation being plausible. That still isn't a solo match though.


Conclusions
At this point, I do not foresee the story following developments that would permit Sanji to defeat Queen solo.


Summary
To summarise what I've said above:
  • The sort of narrative arguments that predict Sanji soloing a Calamity have a terrible track record
  • Oda seems to actually give a damn about powerscaling
  • Sanji's powerscaling portrayal does not suggest that he can handle a Calamity
  • I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that would permit Sanji a solo battle vs a Calamity.
 
Last edited:
#5
Because Sanji is still one of the main fighters of the crew and because I personally wanted him to get a proper 1v1 since WCI.

Also, I believe anyone below calamity is simply too weak for RS Sanji on the beast pirates side.

Nobody seriously thinks he can defeat King and Queen in a 2v1 when not even Marco can do more than stall them.
 

Chrono

D Sanji
β€Ž
#6
Powercaling is only ever an excuse when Oda wants something to happen in the plot. For example showing off Meme's prowess by using F6 hypetools or having Necko defeat Perospero. However in this regard....he would want Sanji to solo a Calamity.

Sanji usually never gets help in any of his fights. And if we go by powerscaling, Ennies Lobby Jabra should've shat on him and low-mid diffed him. Heck a lot of shit should'nt have happened if we go by powerscaling. So still using power-scaling as an excuse is retarded.

If Oda wants Sanji to solo a Calamity, he will. Powersclaing has never and will never matter. RS Sanji is already as strong as Base King. Zoan King aint stronger than Base King. And Sanji just needs a PU to defeat Hybrid King. It's easily doable.
 
#10
If im wrong and Oda really planning to let Zoro fight King,I assume something like this:

Sanji+Drake+Apoo vs Queen
Zoro+Izo+Kawa vs King
How I see the scenario?
King getting his hype via beating Marco together with Queen and Pero.

Then both King and Queen face four strong enemies. Drake and Apoo(theory from the past where Apoo betrayal Queen based on a old history) vs Queen where both damage Queen but lose in the end. Same with King who beat Izo and Kawa. Lead to Sanji vs Queen and Zoro vs King.

That is what I expect.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#11
Who expects this?
No one lol.

Sanjino will deal with Queen, will see if he gets help or not.
@Zoro D Goat, @Yasheen, some others as well.


Also, I believe anyone below calamity is simply too weak for RS Sanji on the beast pirates side.
RS Sanji could not even defeat Pay Pay.


He will defeat one lol
Most likely King
I expect he will land the final blow on a Calamity, but will the fight be a solo match? I'm becoming pretty sceptical.


Fighting Two calamity? Nope i didn't think so. Dunno about the explanation cinera san but i believe Sanji will fight calamity solo as i believe Zoro Fighting Kaido.
  1. Zoro did not solo Kaido.
  2. I think Zoro's combat performance doesn't have that much bearing on Sanji's.
 
#14
  1. Zoro did not solo Kaido.
  2. I think Zoro's combat performance doesn't have that much bearing on Sanji's
1. Yes its true but my point is i believe sanji will fight one calamity as i believe zoro will fight kaido either with help or not (cuz many people ain't believe that (zoro face off kaido) even when oda clearly shows hint)
2. Truth. no denying that.
 
#18
Let alone two?

Are the Sanji vs King and Queen people serious? Is this some elaborate shitpost I'm missing out on? Is this coping because Sanji hasn't defeated a significant combatant solo in the New World?

I'm pretty flabbergasted. Luffy defeating Linlin in WCI seemed to have more going for it than Sanji taking down both Calamities.


Disclaimer
I don't actually hate Sanji and I'm annoyed at Sanji bashing. This is me being (perhaps brutally) honest.

As usual, I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction
Leaving aside Sanji taking down both Calamities, I'm not confident that Sanji will defeat any Calamity solo. I have been expecting Sanji to do this for a while, but I think it's time I reevaluate. There are three broad reasons I'm losing confidence in Sanji soloing a calamity:
  1. Increased scepticism of the meta-narrative
  2. Powerscaling might actually matter?
  3. Viability of a solo matchup given the events of the Live Floor


Increased Scepticism of the Meta Narrative
There's the traditional argument that Sanji will solo a Calamity (presumably Queen) because Queen feels the template of Sanji's traditional opponent:
  • He's a bit goofy.
  • Both love women (particularly Komurasaki)
  • He has a rivalry with Zoro's presumptive opponent (King).
  • He knows Sanji's father and addressed Sanji as "Judge's Son".
  • He mentioned the need to take down the Strawhats' strongest combatants.
  • He's the one that sent the Tobi Roppo after Sanji.

I agree that Quee is Sanji's presumptive opponent. However, recent events have undermined my confidence in Sanji defeating Queen solo.

Particularly:
  • Oda had Linlin defeat Usopp's presumptive opponent (Pay Pay).
  • Oda had Linlin defeat Nami's presumptive opponent (Ulti).
  • Oda had Carrot lose to her presumptive opponent (Perospero) and seems to have entirely discarded the opportunity for her to get vindicated in a rematch, instead of setting up someone else (Nekomamushi) to defeat them.

Meta/pattern-based arguments are looking less credible to me seeing as Oda appears to have consistently defied such patterns.

The same argument that predicts Sanji soloing Queen also predicted:
  • Usopp soloing Page One
  • Nami soloing Ulti
  • Carrot defeating Perospero
  • Zoro never fighting Kaido
  • Zoro soloing King
    • In fairness, this might still happen.
This argument has a horrendous track record, so I'm pretty dubious of Sanji soloing Queen based on this argument alone.


Powerscaling Might Actually Matter?
Here I take my L. I've long been an advocate that narrative trumps powerscaling, and characters will become as strong as Oda needs them to be for the narrative. Well, I took a big fat L here:
  • Carrot was not strong enough to defeat Perospero and so she lost.
    • Someone that's actually strong enough (Nekomamushi) is facing Perospero instead.
  • Usopp was not strong enough to defeat Pay Pay and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) him.
  • Nami was not strong enough to defeat Ulti and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) her.

By his current showings, Sanji is not strong enough to defeat Queen even when wearing the Raid Suit.

Sanji's best showings with the Raid Suit is failing to even damage a Tobi Roppo:

And being able to withstand an attack from one:

Sanji has nothing suggesting he's actually strong enough to defeat Queen. Before I didn't think that matters because I thought the narrative trumps powerscaling, but now I think powerscaling matters.

As far as powerscaling goes, Sanji has an absolutely horrendous track record in the New World:
  • He teamed up with Jimbe to take down Wadatsumi
  • He was treated by fodder like Law at Punk Hazard
  • He was on the back foot against a Vergo that was massively holding back
    • He wasn't using his Bamboo (his main weapon)
    • He wasn't using hardening
    • He didn't appear to be using Rokushiki techniques (bar possibly Tekkai)
  • He was fodderised by Doflamingo
  • He defeats Sheepshead together with Brook
    • Even then, Sheepshead is a fodder headliner
  • He failed to defeat Judge
    • Or even be depicted as stronger than him
  • He was never demonstrated to be above all his siblings
    • At the end of WCI, Niji still had to save him and mocked him for being way too slow.
  • He did not defeat any of the Charlotte siblings in WCI
  • He failed to defeat Page One even with his Raid Suit power-up
    • Page One has been portrayed as the weakest of the Tobi Roppo

Sanji's last solo victory against a significant opponent of note was pretimeskip. His combat ability presentation today has not been good. If powerscaling actually matters β€” if the narrative does not trump it β€” then I have no reason to believe that Sanji is strong enough to defeat Queen.


Viability of a Solo Matchup
Leaving aside the narrative and powerscaling counterarguments, I'm not sure the story actually allows Sanji to have a solo battle against any of the Calamities.

On the Alliance's side, we'll have:
  • Zoro
  • Marco
  • Sanji
  • Nekomamushi
  • Drake
  • Hyougoro
  • Kawamatsu
  • Izo
  • Chopper
  • The Yakuza Bosses

On the Beast Pirates side, we'll have:
  • King
  • Queen
  • Perospero
  • Apoo
    • He might defect or even go solo

I'll try and present the best-case scenario for Sanji:

  • Hyougoro and the Yakuza bosses deal with fodder or recover.
    • They don't fight anyone of note.
  • Nekomamushi fights Perospero
  • Chopper treats Zoro
  • Drake fights Apoo
  • Marco (or Zoro + Izo) deal with King

This still leaves at least Sanji and Kawamatsu to take on Queen.

And honestly speaking, I don't expect this to be how it shakes out. For entirely separate reasons, I doubt Zoro β€” even a brutally injured Zoro β€” would tag-team a swordsman with another one. FIghting despite injuries that would cripple anyone else is his entire shtick.

Exhibit A:


Exhibit B:


Exhibit C:


There may be others, but this isn't supposed to be a Zoro thread, so I'll stop here for now.

I also don't think Drake will fight Apoo. Queen backstabbing and discarding Apoo was really highlighted, and I got the impression that Apoo was reconsidering his entire allegiance to the Beast Pirates:


So I'm actually expecting Sanji to face Queen alongside some combination of (Drake, Kawamatsu and Izo).

Perhaps I'm wrong on Zoro and he'll face King with backup from Izo, and I'm wrong on Apoo and he'll face Drake, but that still leaves Kawamatsu unaccounted for. Ultimately, I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that permits Sanji to defeat Queen solo.

I expect Sanji to land the last hit, and maybe his support would be defeated along the way and the match would end in a 1 vs 1. I can see a Doflamingo vs Luffy and Law situation being plausible. That still isn't a solo match though.


Conclusions
At this point, I do not foresee the story following developments that would permit Sanji to defeat Queen solo.


Summary
To summarise what I've said above:
  • The sort of narrative arguments that predict Sanji soloing a Calamity have a terrible track record
  • Oda seems to actually give a damn about powerscaling
  • Sanji's powerscaling portrayal does not suggest that he can handle a Calamity
  • I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that would permit Sanji a solo battle vs a Calamity



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Cause we have expectation for this series to give proper shine for main cast...
 
#19
On the Alliance's side, we'll have:
  • Zoro
  • Marco
  • Sanji
  • Nekomamushi
  • Drake
  • Hyougoro
  • Kawamatsu
  • Izo
  • Chopper
  • The Yakuza Bosses

On the Beast Pirates side, we'll have:
  • King
  • Queen
  • Perospero
  • Apoo
    • He might defect or even go solo
The only logic explanation I can come up with to even the numbers is that some will fall/leave the fights right before/during the SH entrance in the Alliance side.
To make an example:
- Monster Chopper gets put down by Queen
- King-Perospero (and maybe Queen too) teamup puts down Marco
- Yakuza Bosses have another objective/get separated from the Live Floor fights

This way, by the arrival of Zoro, Sanji, Izo, Kawa, Neko and Sicilian we'll have:
- Zoro, Marco and Chopper separated from the fights to medicate/heal
- Nekomamushi and Sicilian vs Perospero as a sure thing (we'll see about the winner)

In the end, the imminent characters who need to be clarified are the following:
- King
- Queen
- Sanji
- Drake
- Apoo

In my opinion, the developing debends the most on Apoo decision, by him switching to the Alliance side or not... if there's still any chance of it happening.

OT: Sanji will fight a Calamity, either in 2v1 or 1v1. Sanji fighting both the Calamities is out of the window.
 
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