Future Events Why I am not Convinced that Luffy Defeats Kaido

Who lands the final attack on Kaido?

  • Luffy alone

  • Zoro alone

  • Luffy and Zoro together

  • Some other group/character


Results are only viewable after voting.

Cinera

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#1
Introduction
I don't have the time to write another full length essay right now (and I would address this at depth in one of my forthcoming essays), so I'm going to be as brief as possible. Considers this a rough sketch of my beliefs, and my attempt at getting the pulse of the community.

I've covered a lot of the supporting arguments in some of my many Zoro vs Kaido essays, so I'll just link them when appropriate.


Why Zoro?
The idea that Luffy would defeat Kaido in a final 1 vs 1 confrontation seems implausible given Zoro's narrative and character arc in Wanokuni. Considering what Zoro has been setup to do, I do not see Zoro being an afterthought in Kaido's defeat.

Against Luffy Defeating Kaido
If Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1, then even if Zoro beheads a defeated Kaido, the following cannot be accomplished:
  • Kaido's desire to die at the hands of a monster samurai in battle
    • Zoro would have cowardly killed him after he had already been defeated
  • Zoro surpassing Oden
    • Slaying an already defeated enemy is not surpassing anyone
  • Replicating Ryuma's legend
    • Slaying an already defeated enemy is no legend

Merely reopening the scar Oden left behind or even giving Kaido a new scar would not accomplish any of the below:
  • Kaido's desire to die at the hands of a monster samurai in battle
    • Zoro would have failed at killing him
  • Zoro surpassing Oden
    • Reopening Oden's scar is a feat inferior to Oden's
    • A new scar is merely replicating Oden's feat, in no way does Zoro surpass Oden through it
  • Replicating Ryuma's legend
    • Failing to kill Kaido does not replicate Ryuma's legend

The claim that Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1 is a claim that Zoro's character arc in Wano would be denied a suitable payoff.

Aside from that though, Luffy landing the final blow when Zoro and himself face an antagonist by themselves has never happened to the best of my knowledge.
  • Captain Morgan
    • Zoro landed the final blow that defeated him
  • Punk Hazard Dragon
    • Zoro beheaded it with a Shi Shishi Sonson

Luffy has landed the final blow in group fights (Pacifista, Oars, etc.), but in fights with him and Zoro, landing the final blow has traditionally fallen to Zoro. I expect that Kaido would be essentially defeated by Luffy and Zoro alone (they have already dealt > 90% of the damage he has received so far), and I expect that to remain true. Mama may also be defeated given CP 0's words, and the other Supernova can handle her.


Expectations for the Final Attack
As for the final attack that defeats Kaido, I think Oda has already shown it to us.

In Chapter 1002, Zoro nearly replicated Ryuma's legend on the Rooftop using a posture and stance that directly mirrored Ryuma's own:


The technique β€” Hiryuu Kaen β€” was the same technique that Zoro used to defeat Ryuma:

The attack missed, but perhaps it was simply too early. In order to replicate Ryuma's legend, Zoro would need to perform the feat in front of several witnesses (perhaps he gets another chance when the battle moves to the vicinity of the Flower Capital).


Predictions
The following events would make me update towards Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
  • Zoro declaring to Kaido that he shall cut down/kill/slay/defeat him
    • Perhaps this happens when Zoro gets his eponymous chapter
  • Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently a samurai on par with Oden
  • Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently a samurai that exceeds Oden
  • Kaido expressing the desire to die at Zoro's hands
  • Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently capable of killing/defeating him
    • E.g. "if it's him, he could do it"

The following events would make me update away from Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
  • Zoro declaring that Luffy will become the Pirate King
  • Zoro leaving the Kaido battle
    • For any reason at all
  • Luffy declaring that he wants to overcome and surpass Kaido now
    • Not in the future, not eventually, something along the lines of his declaration of intent regarding Katakuri.
    • E.g. "I want to overcome him, the Emperor known as Kaido, I want to beat him!"
  • Zoro declaring that Luffy will surpass/defeat Kaido
  • Zoro entrusting Luffy with defeating Kaido


Poll
You can NOT change your votes.


Conclusions
If Zoro does not get to fell Kaido with Hiryuu Kaen, then I can see it being a combination attack between Zoro and Luffy. I'm pretty sceptical that Luffy gets to defeat Kaido at the end of a solo battle (I do not expect Zoro to defeat Kaido in a solo battle either).

I realise that I'm doubting that the protagonist of the story would get to surpass and overcome their first Yonkou opponent, and I'm fine with that. There are three other Yonkou that are going to fall apart from Kaido. Luffy does not need to surpass and overcome Kaido at his strongest. Landing the final blow on Kaido is necessary for Zoro to fulfill the Second Ryuma plotline and surpass Oden.

Zoro needs to defeat Kaido more than Luffy does. After Wano, there would never again be another opportunity for him to forge a legend as the Second Coming of Ryuma. Perhaps you think this narrative has no payoff, after all, Zoro failed to round up the samurai and lead them into battle. Perhaps Zoro's character just isn't important enough for Zoro to get his moment of recognition as the Second Ryuma. That's a sensible belief to have, but it's currently a belief I have low credence in.


~Snip~
 
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#3
You have proofed enough of why ZKK is the most probable outcome of this arc. Those can't even be called implications any longer, it's getting slammed in your face repeatedly.

Wano is like the only arc in which Zoro actively wants to strike down the bad guy and has motivations for doing so, it's happening.

Zoro cuts down Kaido and replicates Ryuma's feat with Odens blade, everyone wins even fucking Kaido.
 
#5
Alright. I'm going to give my honest opinion about that matter.
While I don't discard the possibility of ZKK happening, I think Luffy will be the one to defeat him.
Kaido is the first Yonko on their path, and Luffy specifically said that he wanted and that he had to defeat the Yonko in order to become pirate king.

Also Kinemon and Momo personally asked Luffy to defeat Kaido for them, Luffy also promised Tama that he will free Wano from Kaido's tyranny.

For more obvious reason that I would still mention nonetheless because it makes sense and it follows the usual pattern for this type of arc, Kaido is the main villain and Luffy is the main character.

I believe Zoro will play an important role but I don't think he has to repeat Ryuma's feat, he can very well do something else and write his own legend.

Overall I think some argument for ZKK make sense and I'm not against ZKK happening. But in that case Luffy would have to defeat Big Mom because I don't think Oda will make him a side character in the enemy's defeat.

Also Oda doesn't really like to kill his characters and I know Kaido should die plot wise but it's Oda. A defeated enemy somehow is no longer a threat for yhe people he oppressed during many years.
 
#7
Yeah, Luffy knows he needs Zoro to be King of the Pirates. Luffy isn't dumb not to know things he can't do. Luffy knows he needs help which is why he listens to people who have more expertise then him. He not listening to dumbass BM. Luffy listened to shipwrights, Sanji, nami etc... cause he knows he can't do those things. Guess what Oda is saying throughout this arc? Nobody can take KAIDO HEAD/CUT IT OFF. Something he identified at the start of Wano. Luffy not a swordsman
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 βš›οΈ
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#13
You have proofed enough of why ZKK is the most probable outcome of this arc. Those can't even be called implications any longer, it's getting slammed in your face repeatedly.

Wano is like the only arc in which Zoro actively wants to strike down the bad guy and has motivations for doing so, it's happening.

Zoro cuts down Kaido and replicates Ryuma's feat with Odens blade, everyone wins even fucking Kaido.
Zoro embodied Oden's will because he is aware of what Enma represents for the people of Wano despite being merely a training tool in all likelihood. And he openly showed overtly sentiment towards the people of Wano. So he's carrying to accomplish what Oden failed.
 
#14
Youve already had this told to you

kaido is talking about how much luffy grew from getting bitch slapped in kuri to know

hes talking about how strong luffy WILL BE (how high his ceiling will go)

he is NOT saying luffy is that level now

luffy is NOT capabale of fighting kaido 1 vs 1 right now

meanwhile

unlike that which is about luffys future

this is foreshadowing FOR THIS FIGHT
 
#20
Oda said Luffy will beat Kaido. He just doesn't want it to be that simple.
luffy will only ever punch stronger and we know oda wont let him beat kaido like that
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The day Oda draws a Straw Hat killing a character on panel, especially in such a brutal fashion like cutting their head clean off, is the the same chapter Sanji is drawn punching a female in the face.
you were happy to have zoro cut orochis head off lmfao dragon orochi and all that jazz
 
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