Chapter Discussion Why Is Everyone Sold on Xebec Being Evil????

#1
I have been thinking about this question. And sure, you can take Sengoku's word literally and believe him wholeheartedly about Rocks.

But let's all take a second and remember some facts:

1- Sengoku is a Marine, he will NOT say "they are good pirates".
2- Sengoku himself admitted that Rocks was looking into "Taboo Subjects". We all know that means void century, once piece...etc (something Roger ended up doing)
3- WG tried to cover everything about Rocks, even the island itself was erased from history books and from the maps
4- Garp having a bad taste about the incident of "God Valley" and it being involved protecting celestial dragons and their slaves.
5- The fact that we know how good-natured Old Man Whitebeard is, and the man STILL followed him. I may even consider him more good natured than Roger for the simple incident of Squard and his crew getting annihilated by Roger pirates.

The point is, Whenever the WG talks about someone who is a big threat to them, they picture them as demons, worst criminals...etc and all kinds of stuff. They literally brand them with the worst of descriptions. Sengoku even did that with Luffy when Luffy was about to free Ace from execution platform. Sengoku was like "you too are a sinful pirate who needs to be executed" and so on.

I honestly think that Sengoku and the WG are not telling the whole truth here. When the Sengoku says that Xebec wanted to be the king of the world. Most people acted like he was a tyrant. BUT what if he simply knew of the exitance of Imu-sama? What if he simply wanted to liberate the world from Imu-sama and celestial dragons. Something just like what Dragon is trying to do now.

BUT because Xebec was defeated, and because the WG now can control its history books and what they teach. they altered some facts and ended up changing the idea of "liberating the world from Imu-sama and Celestial Dragons" into "he was a tyrant who wanted to be King of the world"

I TRUUUULLY think that Roger during that time, he still DID NOT KNOW the truth about those subjects. I think Xebec was seeing the full picture and he was waging his war on the WG for it. While, luckily for Garp, he met Roger who simply had Xebec as a fellow pirate rival. And after stopping and taking down Xebec. Roger followed the SAME PATH Xebec went for after he learnt the full truth when he became pirate king.

I think it's clear that Sengoku was implying about Garp hated that incident because he protected the celestial dragons. I think there is more to this detail than just Rocks was attacking celestial dragons and Garp protecting them.

The fact that the WG after that incident ERASED the island, it means they were hiding some atrocities they were doing, or some important info! Otherwise, the island would have stayed! And would have marked and celebrated as an island where navy beat the Rocks. BUT the island had too many secrets, BAD for the WG, and I think both of Garp and Roger after their defeat to Xebec, it left a terrible taste in their mouth. Their victory was bittersweet.

That's just my opinion
I think that people are jumping to conclusion about Xebec being evil. I think he was the guy who after his defeat, he was the guiding light for Roger to know the full truth. And Roger ended up becoming pirate king and then now, he's beyond Evil for the WG as we can all see.
 

Worst

Custom title
#2
If Roger joined the Navy to stop him he sure was going to do something bad (maybe his "intetions" were not evil, like he wanted to take out the CD and the WG like Dragon wants BUT in some "radical way" like a sort of Sakazuki of pirates you know?)

However even if they were young,BM/Kaido/Shiki/WB these are not guys that submit easily the main reason Rocks disbanded was bc they wanted to kill each other meaning that he was the only one able of keeping these strong/differen personalities together, so he was either an hell of a leader (which he was for sure) or he was some rly crazy maniac.

I mean if he was a sort of "revolutionary" Sengoku could have said that and the Navy would have still considered him a criminal.

So imho he was evil as fk (that's also one of the things that hype him a lot....someone so evil/crazy but also charismatic to keep all these big names under his flag)
 
#4
Garp and Rodger allying to take down Xebec, simply to me is appear same as Luffy takin down BB in the future.

Sure Xebec wanted to be the King of World and might be aware of Im Existence, his methods might not have been right that righteous man like Garp decided to ally with a pirate Rodger to take him down. Its similar to how Smoker allied with Luffy to help take down Crocodile.

Xebec also somewhat sounds to be like Shiki who rallied Pirate crews in order to cause havoc and rule the seas. Like in Edd war, they all surrounded Rodger in all directions.

It's not like makinv Xebec a good person, will change anything in the story or Oda may have some purpose behind it that Oda will need to do a twist about Sengoku words being untrue.

Sengoku we have seen respected Shanks during the MF and being close ally to Garp and FA, must have heard the original story regardless of what WG may have been selling to others, so there are very less chances of his words being untrue.
 
#7
Roger believes in freedom of the seas.....Xebec was trying to take over the world aka control of the seas. If even he was more of an anti-villian with good intentions, his actions and methods were not the way and had to be stopped.
One thing, in mangastream main goal of Xebec was became Pirate King, while in jaimini- became King of the World, and that absolutely different story.

About topic, I agree that there is possibility that Roger just made mistake, but we need wait for Viz transltion, that will bring light on all this themes.
I just want say that in spoilers main goal of Xebec was becaming PK, so now I really believe in mangastream translation, but we need confirmation.
 
#8
Well, maybe he is not totally black as there are not totally white characters either, they are always gray with more or less shadows of black or white. Luffy is good but he is still a pirate, Akainu is a marine but is ready to kill everybody to fulfill his absolute justice. Anwyay Xebec should be something like BB, clever, violent but not necessarily evil, he just does what he needs to become stronger. Give a pirate like Ace, who could have become the flasg of the next gen, to the WG or free lvl 6 prisoners from Impel down matters not to him, he just follows his agenda to gain more power and that is that.

Probably Roger saw him as a rival, maybe even a bit like Luffy sees now Kaido and Bm, realized he could not win alone and look for Garp. Garp had erase this strong pirate, who for sure was not kind with civilians, but probably like Roger he realized he could not do it alone and so they allied. So Garp could have done it because he was "evil", Roger because he saw him as a rival or maybe because he had something he wanted (road poneglyphs, giant red pois eggs)..
 

Jiihad

RIP Toriyama
#9
You not serious right lol? Man wanted to be along of tha World, show me anyone who wants to be King of tha World and is good.....

Not to mention, if he’s a good guy. Why would Garp and Roger(enemies) team up to take him down
 
#10
You not serious right lol? Man wanted to be along of tha World, show me anyone who wants to be King of tha World and is good.....

Not to mention, if he’s a good guy. Why would Garp and Roger(enemies) team up to take him down
Typically people that aim for world domination are not good willed people. Xebec being a direct counter to Roger/Luffy's dream to me says that he is an "evil" character.
wrong translation?:owo: mangastream say next thing:

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also if Rocks main goal was becaming Pirate King, it better explane his attack on CD, and fact that he got to the restricted themes by WG.
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Yet, if Rocks goal was exactly becaming Pirate King, that will mean that Roger after 12 years changed his mind and went Rocks road.
 
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M

MD Zolo

#11
The point is, Whenever the WG talks about someone who is a big threat to them, they picture them as demons, worst criminals...etc and all kinds of stuff. They literally brand them with the worst of descriptions.
This is the part that makes the best case for your argument. We know how Oharan Scholars were demonized, hell, they demonized a 8 year old girl because she was a potential threat.

The fact that we know how good-natured Old Man Whitebeard is, and the man STILL followed him. I may even consider him more good natured than Roger for the simple incident of Squard and his crew getting annihilated by Roger pirates.
And this is where your argument falls apart. Whitebeard was good-natured, may be even more so than Roger, but rest of the Rocks Pirates including Kaido, Big Mom, Shiki are not. I guess, a case can be made for Big Mom that she seeks peace but has a weird way about it, but there is no redemption for Kaido. We don't know enough about Shiki, but he seemed evil (the only honorable thing he ever tried was probably attempting to break out Roger).

Sengoku is a Marine, he will NOT say "they are good pirates"
Yes! But he won't label them as terrorist group either if there was no basis for it. As far as I remember, he didn't label WB Pirates as terrorists.

Most people acted like he was a tyrant. BUT what if he simply knew of the exitance of Imu-sama? What if he simply wanted to liberate the world from Imu-sama and celestial dragons. Something just like what Dragon is trying to do now.
Shouldn't he had gone for Mary Geose then? CDs are present in Mary Geose and so is Imu. Dragon went to Mary Geose to declare war.

And after stopping and taking down Xebec. Roger followed the SAME PATH Xebec went for after he learnt the full truth when he became pirate king.
Yeah! It is most probable that Xebec inspired Roger to learn the truth. How old was Roger when he recruited Rayleigh?

Overall, I think Xebec was a gray character just like everybody else in OP (except Doflamingo, Crocodile and Enel). However, he leaned towards the dark side. Despite everything, Garp has not done a serious blunder as of yet. If Garp decided to defeat Xebec, he must've had a reason for it.
 

Jew D. Boy

I Can Go Lower
#12
All good points, but I’m inclined to believe that Rocks has more redeeming qualities than the WG would have us believe simply because he’s a D. Wherever they fall on the morality scale, most D.s have been portrayed as protagonists (or adjacent) through the series, often in direct comparison to the WG. Sure, Xebec led several major series “villains,” but they’re really only considered such because they are obstacles to the main character’s goal...when compared to the WG, they aren’t necessarily evil.
 

Uncle Van

Taxes Are a Sickness
#13
One thing, in mangastream main goal of Xebec was became Pirate King, while in jaimini- became King of the World, and that absolutely different story.

About topic, I agree that there is possibility that Roger just made mistake, but we need wait for Viz transltion, that will bring light on all this themes.
I just want say that in spoilers main goal of Xebec was becaming PK, so now I really believe in mangastream translation, but we need confirmation.
Mangastream is pretty shitty so I'll stick with Jaimini until the Viz.
 
M

MD Zolo

#14
All good points, but I’m inclined to believe that Rocks has more redeeming qualities than the WG would have us believe simply because he’s a D. Wherever they fall on the morality scale, most D.s have been portrayed as protagonists (or adjacent) through the series, often in direct comparison to the WG. Sure, Xebec led several major series “villains,” but they’re really only considered such because they are obstacles to the main character’s goal...when compared to the WG, they aren’t necessarily evil.
Kaido destroyed Wano. Big Mom destroys a country that doesn't provide her with sweets. So, they are evil by every standard.

Xebec is gray like other OP characters. But I doubt he had any more redeeming qualities than BB.
 
#15
Mangastream is pretty shitty so I'll stick with Jaimini until the Viz.
I agree that MS sometime is shitty, but sometimes jaimini use fanboying and trying to put things like they view em. With that said, I remembered spoilers which was saying about PK, but again, your right, better to wait Viz tomorrow.
 
#17
No matter what happens I don't see why any supposedely ''good'' person would protect the CDs.
Noone did more harm to civilians than those bastards.
Pirates maybe ruthless but the WG has the means and the will to enslave the whole world.
@Sadistic Senpai has a point and I don't understand the scepticism of most replies lol
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Even if Rox was the worst Roger and Garp should've let him destroy the WG and then destroy him :p
 
#19
I have been thinking about this question. And sure, you can take Sengoku's word literally and believe him wholeheartedly about Rocks.

But let's all take a second and remember some facts:

1- Sengoku is a Marine, he will NOT say "they are good pirates".
2- Sengoku himself admitted that Rocks was looking into "Taboo Subjects". We all know that means void century, once piece...etc (something Roger ended up doing)
3- WG tried to cover everything about Rocks, even the island itself was erased from history books and from the maps
4- Garp having a bad taste about the incident of "God Valley" and it being involved protecting celestial dragons and their slaves.
5- The fact that we know how good-natured Old Man Whitebeard is, and the man STILL followed him. I may even consider him more good natured than Roger for the simple incident of Squard and his crew getting annihilated by Roger pirates.

The point is, Whenever the WG talks about someone who is a big threat to them, they picture them as demons, worst criminals...etc and all kinds of stuff. They literally brand them with the worst of descriptions. Sengoku even did that with Luffy when Luffy was about to free Ace from execution platform. Sengoku was like "you too are a sinful pirate who needs to be executed" and so on.

I honestly think that Sengoku and the WG are not telling the whole truth here. When the Sengoku says that Xebec wanted to be the king of the world. Most people acted like he was a tyrant. BUT what if he simply knew of the exitance of Imu-sama? What if he simply wanted to liberate the world from Imu-sama and celestial dragons. Something just like what Dragon is trying to do now.

BUT because Xebec was defeated, and because the WG now can control its history books and what they teach. they altered some facts and ended up changing the idea of "liberating the world from Imu-sama and Celestial Dragons" into "he was a tyrant who wanted to be King of the world"

I TRUUUULLY think that Roger during that time, he still DID NOT KNOW the truth about those subjects. I think Xebec was seeing the full picture and he was waging his war on the WG for it. While, luckily for Garp, he met Roger who simply had Xebec as a fellow pirate rival. And after stopping and taking down Xebec. Roger followed the SAME PATH Xebec went for after he learnt the full truth when he became pirate king.

I think it's clear that Sengoku was implying about Garp hated that incident because he protected the celestial dragons. I think there is more to this detail than just Rocks was attacking celestial dragons and Garp protecting them.

The fact that the WG after that incident ERASED the island, it means they were hiding some atrocities they were doing, or some important info! Otherwise, the island would have stayed! And would have marked and celebrated as an island where navy beat the Rocks. BUT the island had too many secrets, BAD for the WG, and I think both of Garp and Roger after their defeat to Xebec, it left a terrible taste in their mouth. Their victory was bittersweet.

That's just my opinion
I think that people are jumping to conclusion about Xebec being evil. I think he was the guy who after his defeat, he was the guiding light for Roger to know the full truth. And Roger ended up becoming pirate king and then now, he's beyond Evil for the WG as we can all see.
You make sense, but Sengoku wasn't lying about Luffy. Luffy is not a good guy. He should be jailed.
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People are saying he's evil cant accept the fact RGER AND GARP ARENT SAINTS /100% good people like they always stated.

Xebec isn't evil, he may have committed crimes, so did Roger

Let us wait and see.
None of these people are saints including selfish Luffy.
 
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