Character Discussion Why Vista and Jozu can be argued to be / are stronger than queen and king

#1
We saw GB fodderise Queen and King together 1v2. Simple enough right?

Possible counter arguments: They were imprisoned and couldn't fight / They had seastone cuffs on that weakened them./ They werent fully recovered

I do not see any shackles or chains. The burden of proof would be on you to prove they did have them on. Same goes with seastone cuffs.

You could potentially say there were not at "100%" due to bandages, but the problem here is they displayed their regeneration when Marco hurt them.

They regenned almost instantly from his attacks 5 pages to be exact. just 5. So if they had 7 days I reckon thats enough.

FURTHERMORE, where the fuck is zoros adv coc attacks anywhere to be seen on king?. Wow it's almost as if he's completely healed from those attacks


Anyway moving on from those futile attempts, lets move on to Vista and Jozu:

Vista, The flower swordsman. Held off the Worlds Strongest Swordsmen in name and reality ( a top tier). For a whopping 14 pages, on. his. own. Now 14 pages, how much is that exactly? You have numerous dialogue and moments going on in those 14 pages that show vista was holding off Mihawk for a significant amount of time. enough for anyone with a large disparity of weakness against mihawk to get bodied (like gb vs king and queen). As shown by the Newkama brothers that got insta bodied in 1/3 of a page, 1 panel.



Furthermore, to put icing on the cake as one would say, we have a GENERAL vivre card statement about vista that shows his sword skill is world class, something king and queen do not have. take this for what you will: 剣の実力はミホークと拮抗する程。間違いなく世界でもトップクラスの剣豪である。, which means "his swordsmanship is on par with mihawk's. he is undoubtedly one of the best swordsmen in the world."


Now to move on with Jozu!. Jozu funnily enough displays very similar prowess to what Vista did, only against an Admiral, Aokiji. Yes ladies and gentlemen Jozu held off aokiji for a whopping drum roll 20 PAGES, you cannot make this up. all those moments, dialogue add up to a very very very significant amount of time. (u can technically argue longer because it takes 9 more pages to show jozu is done, but we shall lowball this)

Jozu only fails to hold off Aokiji any longer when he unfortunately gets distracted by Marco getting lasered by Kizaru and then is CHEAP SHOT by Aokiji


Now I'm sure we can all agree that cheapshots and distractions should be an exception, right?. Why is that the case? well let me remind you of Oden VS Kaido. Oden has Kaido down for the count, he was getting absolutely clapped. Before a similar thing happened. Now this was obviously pulled off for narrative reasons, I mean, Oden had to lose somehow right?. So any person with reasonable judgement would say this does not take away from odens strength. So tell me the difference between these two panels:

What this ultimately shows. Is that, Vista and Jozu have performed in actuality infinitely better than top tiers Mihawk and an Admiral in a 1V1 situation than King and Queen have performed in a 1v2 VS and Admiral. The only conclusion you can draw from this is that Vista and Jozu are just stronger. And hey, as expected, of the crew of the man who was closest to the one piece.

So that's all for today folks. Now this was meant for people who have the view that King and Queen are indeed stronger. I understand some people may want to comment things such as "This is obvious" or "I already knew that" But surprisingly a lot of people do not, and people may have even switched up after this chapter, but believe me there are people who still believe this to be the case even after this chapter. So this is meant for THOSE people. I like to lay out a logical argument with evidence so that if someone disagrees I can direct them to this.
 
#4
Beast pirates are the weakest Yonko crew, it's funny that when I first said that 3 years ago people attacked me. Back then everyone was quick to jump on the beast pirates bandwagon (just like they are doing with Greenbull) but look at it now.
 
#6
Beast pirates are the weakest Yonko crew, it's funny that when I first said that 3 years ago people attacked me. Back then everyone was quick to jump on the beast pirates bandwagon (just like they are doing with Greenbull) but look at it now.
Yeah I agree, and people downplay vista and jozu a lot even now. Which is dumb
 
#9
WB commanders > other YC commanders
They are the only one to confront top tiers on "equal grounds". Marco without "". And fucking Jozu has Yonko durability, or even above. Not for nothing these guys fought against Roger's crew for 3 days and were equal.
 
#12
Jozu didnt hold shit off...theres zero proof they even fought. Both just sneak attacked each other.

Mihawk is an embrassment, he doesnt apply to any of this.

Why bring up only Queen....why not say Jozu/Vista > King as well. He was negged just as hard.
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Oden was literally about kill Kaido....thats why that sneak attack mattered. Jozu sneak attacked Aokiji....and gave him a bloody lip for 1 panel. Jozu isnt a threat to Aokiji, shown by the fact that he couldnt do anything to Aokiji when given the chance.
 
#13
I agree. Joz > Queen > Jack

And i think Vista is even stronger that joz. I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to compete with marco or king.

beast pirates was really disappointing.
 
#14
Jozu didnt hold shit off...theres zero proof they even fought. Both just sneak attacked each other.

Mihawk is an embrassment, he doesnt apply to any of this.

Why bring up only Queen....why not say Jozu/Vista > King as well. He was negged just as hard.
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Oden was literally about kill Kaido....thats why that sneak attack mattered. Jozu sneak attacked Aokiji....and gave him a bloody lip for 1 panel. Jozu isnt a threat to Aokiji, shown by the fact that he couldnt do anything to Aokiji when given the chance.
Do you think jozu snuck aokiji then they stood there for 20 pages offscreen and did nothing, then jozu turned and aokiji snuck him? that makes 0 sense, they obviously fought and continued to fight the panels I posted show this, clearly. Jozu and oden got snuck, so yes they are the same thing as you very clearly said so. So you shouldnt use it to downplay jozu or oden
 
#16
Based on your argumentation, then why they are stronger than Queen only?:suresure:
oh that was just a mistake I meant to put king in too, just did
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Or… since Ryokugyu was able to go all out without causing excessive collateral damage he didn’t have to hold back against mere commanders like Aokiji and Kizaru did
I very much doubt that, because they are in literal War. And also you imply Aokiji just didn't try until jozu looked away then proceeded to cover his entirety in ice? and take his arm off? is that not trying?. I am very skeptical about that man. GB talking down to queen and king doesn't imply Vista and Jozu must be the exact same, thats kinda the whole point.. shall we talk about how kaido said MERE WARLORDS. Or Jinbei said MERE YONKO. I guess Mihawk isn't a top tier thanks to kaidos statement, and yonkos can be overlooked thanks to jinbeis statement.

 
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#17
Why bring up only Queen....why not say Jozu/Vista > King as well. He was negged just as hard.
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Because Zorobois Like to think King is something special just to wank Zoro. In reality he is just as trash as all other Beast Pirates. That pathetic crew was hard carried by Kaido.
 
#18
Or… since Ryokugyu was able to go all out without causing excessive collateral damage he didn’t have to hold back against mere commanders like Aokiji and Kizaru did
Whitebeard Pirates fanboys ignore that Akainu's AoE was Potrayed as something that could have wiped out the entire crew if it wasn't for Oars Jr
 
#20
Do you think jozu snuck aokiji then they stood there for 20 pages offscreen and did nothing, then jozu turned and aokiji snuck him? that makes 0 sense, they obviously fought and continued to fight the panels I posted show this, clearly. Jozu and oden got snuck, so yes they are the same thing as you very clearly said so. So you shouldnt use it to downplay jozu or oden
You have zero proof of this tho ? There is actually zero proof of a fight. Jozu looks like he was randomly watching what was going on...he didnt look like a man who was in a fight.

I already told you it was completely different scenarios.

- Oden and Kaido were on the same PL. Oden landed a free hit on Kaido and nearly killed him. Kaido then knocked him out with his sneak attack

- Jozu landed a sneak attack on Aokiji and could do barely any damage on him. Aokiji landed a sneak attack, and defeated him and took his limb.

Completely different potrayal. Oden getting sneak attacked mattered because his opponent was on his lvl. Jozu could land 5 sneak attacks on Aokiji, and he wouldnt do anything in comparison to what Aokiji did with one sneak attack. At the end of the day Jozu had no chance of beating Aokiji....whilst Oden vs Kaido was 50/50.
 
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