Character Discussion Why Vista and Jozu can be argued to be / are stronger than queen and king
- Thread starter Kiri
- Start date
zero proof? do you not know how to interpret the panels correctly? this is common knowledge. Sure oden nearly killed him, got distracted then knocked out. Jozu was holding off Aokiji just fine, then got distracted and taken out, they are very much the same thing.
marco actually wounded king with his flame on, you realise how insane that is right
Post automatically merged:
marco actually wounded king with his flame on, you realise how insane that is right
Marineford is good narratively but is shit power scaling wise. The most insane feats and counter feats that make zero logical sense happened at MF. Stop using MF for power scaling.
GB needed a hype introduction, he got it, the only way that could happen without directly fighting the alliance was if GB took on some other powerful opponents first. What other high profile enemies were there who could be jobbers for GB? BMP already jobbed twice when they were thrown off the waterfall by Marco and King. There were no other in close vicinity from where GB could defeat those guys and then arrive at the party so quickly. The 7 days timeskip would kill the hype of introduction in the same chapter and the feats of GB if GB got introduced before the timeskip and then in the next chapter we get that he is heading for the alliance. Anybody who is a tier below can become a jobber for a higher tier. We thought the Scabbards were YC level, Kaido neg diffed them. Even now I would say that the Scabbards could give high to extreme diff fights to Killer etc.
Queen is one of the underwhelming YCs so far, he has alot of things in his arsenal but the single highest AP or super high def are not one of his outstanding features.
If the narrative wanted Marco and Jozu would have been neg diffed by GB just like King and Queen (their condition is still debatable). Tbh I think it was already shown that King is stronger or equal to Marco but with King being referred to as the right hand and being praised by Kaido (WSC) for strength I would give King the edge.
Going against the very thing I said before but we already saw all WB pirates standing together against Akainu, we saw BB and his crew running from Akainu. I mean Admirals and especially Akainu has already got some hype for him, Fuji seemed underwhelming until the end of Dressrosa.
Just take this for example, everybody wanks Shanks to be one of the strongest in the series. But then we learn that he got scarred by BB (when and how we don't know) but it is some feat knowing that Shanks was serious in the fight. But the real bomb comes when you learn that the same BB and his crew got one shot by Magellan so where would you rank Magellan now?
GB needed a hype introduction, he got it, the only way that could happen without directly fighting the alliance was if GB took on some other powerful opponents first. What other high profile enemies were there who could be jobbers for GB? BMP already jobbed twice when they were thrown off the waterfall by Marco and King. There were no other in close vicinity from where GB could defeat those guys and then arrive at the party so quickly. The 7 days timeskip would kill the hype of introduction in the same chapter and the feats of GB if GB got introduced before the timeskip and then in the next chapter we get that he is heading for the alliance. Anybody who is a tier below can become a jobber for a higher tier. We thought the Scabbards were YC level, Kaido neg diffed them. Even now I would say that the Scabbards could give high to extreme diff fights to Killer etc.
Queen is one of the underwhelming YCs so far, he has alot of things in his arsenal but the single highest AP or super high def are not one of his outstanding features.
If the narrative wanted Marco and Jozu would have been neg diffed by GB just like King and Queen (their condition is still debatable). Tbh I think it was already shown that King is stronger or equal to Marco but with King being referred to as the right hand and being praised by Kaido (WSC) for strength I would give King the edge.
Going against the very thing I said before but we already saw all WB pirates standing together against Akainu, we saw BB and his crew running from Akainu. I mean Admirals and especially Akainu has already got some hype for him, Fuji seemed underwhelming until the end of Dressrosa.
Just take this for example, everybody wanks Shanks to be one of the strongest in the series. But then we learn that he got scarred by BB (when and how we don't know) but it is some feat knowing that Shanks was serious in the fight. But the real bomb comes when you learn that the same BB and his crew got one shot by Magellan so where would you rank Magellan now?
We saw GB fodderise Queen and King together 1v2. Simple enough right?
Possible counter arguments: They were imprisoned and couldn't fight / They had seastone cuffs on that weakened them./ They werent fully recovered
I do not see any shackles or chains. The burden of proof would be on you to prove they did have them on. Same goes with seastone cuffs.
You could potentially say there were not at "100%" due to bandages, but the problem here is they displayed their regeneration when Marco hurt them.
They regenned almost instantly from his attacks 5 pages to be exact. just 5. So if they had 7 days I reckon thats enough.
FURTHERMORE, where the fuck is zoros adv coc attacks anywhere to be seen on king?. Wow it's almost as if he's completely healed from those attacks
Anyway moving on from those futile attempts, lets move on to Vista and Jozu:
Vista, The flower swordsman. Held off the Worlds Strongest Swordsmen in name and reality ( a top tier). For a whopping 14 pages, on. his. own. Now 14 pages, how much is that exactly? You have numerous dialogue and moments going on in those 14 pages that show vista was holding off Mihawk for a significant amount of time. enough for anyone with a large disparity of weakness against mihawk to get bodied (like gb vs king and queen). As shown by the Newkama brothers that got insta bodied in 1/3 of a page, 1 panel.
Furthermore, to put icing on the cake as one would say, we have a GENERAL vivre card statement about vista that shows his sword skill is world class, something king and queen do not have. take this for what you will: 剣の実力はミホークと拮抗する程。間違いなく世界でもトップクラスの剣豪である。, which means "his swordsmanship is on par with mihawk's. he is undoubtedly one of the best swordsmen in the world."
Now to move on with Jozu!. Jozu funnily enough displays very similar prowess to what Vista did, only against an Admiral, Aokiji. Yes ladies and gentlemen Jozu held off aokiji for a whopping drum roll 20 PAGES, you cannot make this up. all those moments, dialogue add up to a very very very significant amount of time. (u can technically argue longer because it takes 9 more pages to show jozu is done, but we shall lowball this)
Jozu only fails to hold off Aokiji any longer when he unfortunately gets distracted by Marco getting lasered by Kizaru and then is CHEAP SHOT by Aokiji
Now I'm sure we can all agree that cheapshots and distractions should be an exception, right?. Why is that the case? well let me remind you of Oden VS Kaido. Oden has Kaido down for the count, he was getting absolutely clapped. Before a similar thing happened. Now this was obviously pulled off for narrative reasons, I mean, Oden had to lose somehow right?. So any person with reasonable judgement would say this does not take away from odens strength. So tell me the difference between these two panels:
What this ultimately shows. Is that, Vista and Jozu have performed in actuality infinitely better than top tiers Mihawk and an Admiral in a 1V1 situation than King and Queen have performed in a 1v2 VS and Admiral. The only conclusion you can draw from this is that Vista and Jozu are just stronger. And hey, as expected, of the crew of the man who was closest to the one piece.
So that's all for today folks. Now this was meant for people who have the view that King and Queen are indeed stronger. I understand some people may want to comment things such as "This is obvious" or "I already knew that" But surprisingly a lot of people do not, and people may have even switched up after this chapter, but believe me there are people who still believe this to be the case even after this chapter. So this is meant for THOSE people. I like to lay out a logical argument with evidence so that if someone disagrees I can direct them to this.
Possible counter arguments: They were imprisoned and couldn't fight / They had seastone cuffs on that weakened them./ They werent fully recovered
I do not see any shackles or chains. The burden of proof would be on you to prove they did have them on. Same goes with seastone cuffs.
You could potentially say there were not at "100%" due to bandages, but the problem here is they displayed their regeneration when Marco hurt them.
They regenned almost instantly from his attacks 5 pages to be exact. just 5. So if they had 7 days I reckon thats enough.
FURTHERMORE, where the fuck is zoros adv coc attacks anywhere to be seen on king?. Wow it's almost as if he's completely healed from those attacks
Anyway moving on from those futile attempts, lets move on to Vista and Jozu:
Vista, The flower swordsman. Held off the Worlds Strongest Swordsmen in name and reality ( a top tier). For a whopping 14 pages, on. his. own. Now 14 pages, how much is that exactly? You have numerous dialogue and moments going on in those 14 pages that show vista was holding off Mihawk for a significant amount of time. enough for anyone with a large disparity of weakness against mihawk to get bodied (like gb vs king and queen). As shown by the Newkama brothers that got insta bodied in 1/3 of a page, 1 panel.
Furthermore, to put icing on the cake as one would say, we have a GENERAL vivre card statement about vista that shows his sword skill is world class, something king and queen do not have. take this for what you will: 剣の実力はミホークと拮抗する程。間違いなく世界でもトップクラスの剣豪である。, which means "his swordsmanship is on par with mihawk's. he is undoubtedly one of the best swordsmen in the world."
Now to move on with Jozu!. Jozu funnily enough displays very similar prowess to what Vista did, only against an Admiral, Aokiji. Yes ladies and gentlemen Jozu held off aokiji for a whopping drum roll 20 PAGES, you cannot make this up. all those moments, dialogue add up to a very very very significant amount of time. (u can technically argue longer because it takes 9 more pages to show jozu is done, but we shall lowball this)
Jozu only fails to hold off Aokiji any longer when he unfortunately gets distracted by Marco getting lasered by Kizaru and then is CHEAP SHOT by Aokiji
Now I'm sure we can all agree that cheapshots and distractions should be an exception, right?. Why is that the case? well let me remind you of Oden VS Kaido. Oden has Kaido down for the count, he was getting absolutely clapped. Before a similar thing happened. Now this was obviously pulled off for narrative reasons, I mean, Oden had to lose somehow right?. So any person with reasonable judgement would say this does not take away from odens strength. So tell me the difference between these two panels:
What this ultimately shows. Is that, Vista and Jozu have performed in actuality infinitely better than top tiers Mihawk and an Admiral in a 1V1 situation than King and Queen have performed in a 1v2 VS and Admiral. The only conclusion you can draw from this is that Vista and Jozu are just stronger. And hey, as expected, of the crew of the man who was closest to the one piece.
So that's all for today folks. Now this was meant for people who have the view that King and Queen are indeed stronger. I understand some people may want to comment things such as "This is obvious" or "I already knew that" But surprisingly a lot of people do not, and people may have even switched up after this chapter, but believe me there are people who still believe this to be the case even after this chapter. So this is meant for THOSE people. I like to lay out a logical argument with evidence so that if someone disagrees I can direct them to this.
That's actually acceptable if it weren't for the fact that later Zoro cuts King's chest and we see blood but King has no slash marks or injury.
Marco's AP is under CoA Zoro, all out Marco drew a little blood from King if it really happened, all out Zoro cut through King's strongest attack, coated sword and body, and cut one of his wings in half.
Marco's AP is under CoA Zoro, all out Marco drew a little blood from King if it really happened, all out Zoro cut through King's strongest attack, coated sword and body, and cut one of his wings in half.
