Future Events Zoro vs Orochi - The Unfated Showdown

KiriNigiri

The Road To Harmony
#1
Intro

Ever since the "Shogun of Wano" has been named dropped, Zoro's name has circled this topic. One which began with Zoro fans thunderously championing a matchup, to downright loathing it once we got our formal introduction to the "irreverent" Kurozumi Orochi. However, due to some latest developments, the matchup has developed a supportive contingent believing Zoro vs the Shogun will indeed be, as prophesied ironically by the Zoro fans who now want nothing to do with the Shogun. Today, I bring up cases as to why this matchup isn't meant to be, and hopefully, I can change some minds, or at least give everyone a different perspective on the matter.

Zoro's motivation

Arguably the biggest point in favor of Zoro vs Orochi is Zoro's personal vendetta. Wano has approached Zoro's character much differently from how he's normally written. A passive player usually, Zoro has instead ventured on a solitary, almost intimate little journey around Wano. A journey which had him acquainting "Smooth talker Tonoyasu", who was actually the great daimyo of the Hakumai Region, Shimotsuki Yasuie. It was from this bonding with the man where Zoro's hatred for Orochi stems from, as he had to watch Yasuie shot down by the sniveling Shogun. This inspired Zoro to want to avenge Yasuie, but are his reasons strong enough? After all, Zoro has not known Yasuie for long. He has no idea how deep other's hatred for Orochi runs. Kyoshiro in particular. Zoro was stopped by a man who naturally harbors more intense hatred than Zoro. Observe how quickly Zoro got over his little fit compared to Kyoshiro.


Worlds apart. Zoro himself has yet to reaffirm his hatred for Orochi. Coincidentally, after this little moment.



Zoro is yet again in the presence of someone who harbors more hatred for the Shogun. She knows how far Orochi has gone to destroy her family and country. Has Zoro had that storied and deep running connection with Orochi? Or for that matter, Yasuie, who was loved by the members of the royal family which include the two figures, Denjiro/Kyoshiro and Hiyori, whom also had to watch Yasuie get shot down in front of them. Can we reasonably say Yasuie means more to Zoro than them? Yasuie, the main tether to this conflict, his death was born out of necessity for the Alliance. In the end, Orochi capturing and executing him allowed for the Rasestu prisoners to be released by Kyoshiro (who did nothing to stop Yasuie's execution due to the plan), as well lower the morale of his (Orochi's) troops. It trivializes the need to avenge Yasuie over that when there are bigger ramifications that occurred due to Orochi's actions. Ones other characters besides Zoro have had to witness and endure.


Significance of the Alliance/Bigger fish to fry

Despite his possible ties to Wano, Zoro is still an outsider. He's no different from Luffy, Kid, Kaido, etc. He and the rest of his friends have been called with the purpose of helping to defeat Kaido.


Their motives would grow to include a more personal wish of opening the borders to Wano.


However, during that time, a very pertinent exchange occurs between Luffy and Momonosuke.



This convo highlights what the Strawhats represent: Help from the outside. In that respect, they are Momonosuke's and his family's answer to what Kaido represents to Orochi. Zoro is such outside help. Thematically, he and his friends are there to take care of the invaders of the country. And to that end, he's shocked and impressed various Wano locals, some great warriors in their own right, with his outside world experience and training.


Of which will come in aid against Kaido, who is repeatedly reminded as the main opposition, even by Orochi, as well as by the man Zoro "must" avenge.


Momo's Role

Poor old Momonosuke has been ignored in all these heated debates over who would fight Orochi. In fact, Momonosuke's overall part in the arc has been marginalized almost entirely. However, he has been building towards something. Ever since his aforementioned moment with Luffy, Momonosuke has experienced a change in demeanor. Going from unassuming and cowardly, to more driven and disciplined. Throughout Wano thus far, we've caught glimpse to Momo's growth, training almost every panel he's drawn in. Wishing to become a great man like his father.




He has even been gifted one of the blades wielded by Oden, Ame No Habakiri. This is a rather meta point, as One Piece is not beholden to the references it's lifting from, but it's still worth mentioning. The Ame No Habakiri was a blade wielded by the god of storm, Susanoo. It was the totsuka-no-tsurugi famed for slaying the evil Yamata No Orochi. Currently, the Shogun of Wano is named after the Yamata No Orochi. In fact, he even possesses the ability to transform into a creature reminiscent of it.



Coincidentally, Momonosuke has been working towards becoming the next shogun of Wano. A wish even his late father, Kozuki Oden expressed late in his life.


Kozuki Oden had two desires upon returning to Wano: Open the borders to the country and become Shogun. Luffy has already agreed to help open the borders which involves driving Kaido away. However, Orochi is not fit to continue leading the country. That's where the heir in-training takes the stage. Orochi's primary target in all these matters is Momonosuke himself. He's obsessed with wiping out the Kozuki family. Even growing paranoid over the years from the idea.




Momonosuke's arc brings him towards Orochi. He is the man who destroyed his country, tore apart his family, and sullied its name. His ventures have served to steel him, offering to help in the coming battles, and accepting the responsibilities which come of being Shogun, setting a distinct contrast between him and Orochi.



Zoro's Role in the Overall Narrative

From his conception, Zoro is a character defined by his strength. And he has spent the entire story growing as a swordsman and fighter. Wano is arguably the biggest arc the series has witnessed, with lots of payoffs to be expect. Ongoing plotlines that have gone on for over a decade are finally being resolved in this arc. And Zoro's part this arc will mark a substantial growth for him. We've been told time and time again how One Piece is approaching its climax. Therefore, it stands to reason Zoro will approach his dream of becoming the World's Strongest Swordsman. He can't do that if he isn't pushed towards it. Orochi is not a viable combatant, no matter how much one tries to claim otherwise. This is due to his overall portrayal in the arc not inspiring fear like a strong character would. This includes his subordinates, who find his presence more unbearable than threatening.



Even Zoro had to be prevented from killing him. This is not the first time Orochi has been protected by various parties, such as when Oden planned to strike him down, but was saved by his relative. He even shields himself behind the threat of Kaido.




Somebody like this is not fulfilling Zoro's primary purpose in the story. Now, the counter argument to this would be the New World opponents Zoro has had since the timeskip. The counterpoint to that is the Wano arc itself. It has been the arc where all the storylines started at the beginning of the timeskip converge and unravel. It represents a series milestone that hasn't been witnessed since arguably the timeskip itself. Luffy won't just receive a paltry bounty increase like post Dressrosa, or how in Punk Hazard he didn't get one at all. He'll experience a massive jump. Going from pseudo emperor, to potentially a bonafide one. His crew should naturally reflect that. And to that end, we've experienced the first real growths for strawhats in the form of power ups, ranging from Nami's Zeus, Sanji's raid suit, and most recently Zoro's new sword Enma. To add on, previous arcs like Fishmen Island, Punk Hazard, as well as Dressrosa lacked on the same level of threats present in Wano. Someone like Pica might've been nothing to Zoro, but he was the best opposition offered there that wasn't Doflamingo. However, there's a laundry list of combatants more competent and dangerous than Orochi in the Wano arc.

There is no necessity for Zoro to diverge from his intended role of fighter who grows stronger through the story. The only exceptions are extraneous circumstances which develop him in other meaningful ways, such as his stand against Kuma which emphasized his loyalty, or his lost to Mihawk which humbled and spurred him on. However, the Orochi/Zoro plotline isn't meritable enough to disrupt the path laid out for Zoro. Zoro's just angry at somebody lots of people are already angry towards.

Enma

Zoro's acquiesce of Enma shakes expectations for him moving forward. Enma's name derives from the Buddhist deity of the underworld. Enma, the blade itself, is noted as the sword which "slices through hell itself." Though the biggest fact about Enma was how it was introduced as the blade to leave a permanent wound on Kaido. Now, it wasn't the only blade to do so, as Ame No Habakiri performed that feat as well, demonstrated here.


But Enma was the one noted to do so. But then why even bring it up? What relevance does bringing up Enma leaving a permanent scar on Kaido have if Zoro's destined fight is with someone else this arc? Distinguishing it as a blade wielded by Oden would've been enough to give it clout. Or handing the Ame No Habakiri to Zoro. As mentioned, the Ame No Habakiri is the sword tied to the myth associated with the creature that loosely inspired Orochi. If the expectations were for Zoro to confront Orochi, he would've been given the Ame No Habakiri. Instead, he receives the sword not linked to Orochi but the one said to have injured Kaido. Though the topic of scarring Kaido is another matter onto itself. However, it drives home how little Zoro vs Orochi has going for it, thematically.

Orochi's Story

We've learned a lot of Orochi during the Oden story. As it stands, his plotline dates back very deeply to the politics of Wano. With the persistent persecution of the Kurozumi, Orochi's a more personal enemy of to the country, namely the Kozuki who are fighting to reclaim it. It's inappropriate for him to meet his end vs an outsider with very little to do with what motivates him and led him to his single desire of seeing Wano burn to the ground.



He represents everything a leader should not be. Cowardly, callous, lazy, and uninspiring. His men don't respect him, he lies to the populace, he let's the country to go to waste. However, he is the result of the country's prejudice against the Kurozumi. He's Wano's ugly past manifest, and the resolution to his story will greatly involve and juxtapose the future of how the country should be govern. The ones who will take back this country are the Kozuki family. Of which Zoro is not a part of.


Conclusion

Zoro vs Orochi lacks strong enough grounds and motivation between the two participants, as it's predicated on the death of a man who's actions proved overall beneficial towards the greater purpose of defeating Kaido. Other candidates like Momonosuke and the rest of the Kozuki family have stronger emotional and narrative ties to Orochi than Zoro, and Orochi does nothing to fulfill Zoro's main role in the story, while not providing ample enough alternatives for why it should happen. The battles are about to begin, and there are opponents and tasks that demand Zoro's attention more than a trivial feud with a villain who is but a hollow figurehead in all these matters.
 
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#2
Great essay! You really put a lot of thought and effort into this.

I think what people want is just for Zoro to fight the strongest samurai of Wano. The initial assumption is that the Shogun would play that role, but Orochi subverted this expectation completely. Now that Kyoshiro has been confirmed as a Scabbard, Zoro has no martial storyline against Orochi or any of his men. To prove himself to fugitive Mihawk and the samurai of Wano, Zoro must fight and defeat a world renowned swordsman. Orochi cannot and does not fulfil that role in Zoro’s story. Orochi is the nemesis of the Kozuki siblings who are tasked with rebuilding Wano and fulfilling Oden’s legacy.
 
#3
Yup because nobody thinks it's possible, luffy will take kaido down.

As for zoro he'll defeat king, might injure kaido and I personally hope he'll cut orochi to pieces since he had a personal grudge against him.

I said it already but zoro was very angry about yasu's death, I think he deserves his revenge here even though orochi is a fodder. He can still have bigger fights after that or before.
 
#5
Orochi is a gun user, he will be defeated by Usopp with help from Momonosuke

The issue with Zoro vs Orochi is that it would be underwhelming. We know what would happen, all Zoro would need to do is send a flying slash and orochi would die. He's too weak to challenge Zoro and would lead to Orochi being taken out in the most anti-climactic way possible.

Zoro's fight is with King.
 
#6
Nice post kiri ;)

In the other side if Zoro doesn't do anything to Kaido, i think he needs to face orochi because as i said in our discord, he doesn't lack in strenght but at fame. If the world knows zoro killed the shogun of wano, his reputation will be bigger!
But it's true that orochi vs zoro is not bigger than the hate and pain that hiyori, momo and the 9 samurai faced until now.
 
#7
Nice post kiri ;)

In the other side if Zoro doesn't do anything to Kaido, i think he needs to face orochi because as i said in our discord, he doesn't lack in strenght but at fame. If the world knows zoro killed the shogun of wano, his reputation will be bigger!
But it's true that orochi vs zoro is not bigger than the hate and pain that hiyori, momo and the 9 samurai faced until now.
Actually zoro is pretty famous. "Pirate hunter" sounds badass af.
People have been talking about him since east blue. He was more famous than luffy until alabasta.
 

Akai2

🆉🅾🆁🅾 🆃🅾🅾 🆂🆃🆁🅾🅽🅺!
#8
Great read. I don't read much of battle centric discussions so I thought Zoro vs Orochi was a meme. I wasn't aware that there was an attempt at building a logical case for it. All in all, I agree 100%. Zoro has bigger fish to fry than Orochi. Even if he's the one to take him down, it won't be his main conquest during the war.
 
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#9
I truly enjoyed this.
Appreciate the effort you put into this essay.

My favourite line especially :

There is no necessity for Zoro to diverge from his intended role of fighter who grows stronger through the story. The only exceptions are extraneous circumstances which develop him in other meaningful ways, such as his stand against Kuma which emphasized his loyalty, or his lost to Mihawk which humbled and spurred him on. However, the Orochi/Zoro plotline isn't meritable enough to disrupt the path laid out for Zoro. Zoro's just angry at somebody lots of people are already angry towards.
 
#16
If luffy can beat doffy instead of law Or kaido instead of mostly everyone else having a bigger grudge against him like even kid. I don't see why zoro can't beat orochi or atleast do the final attack

Not saying its gonna be some extreme diff battle between them or thatll be his only fight or even that he 100% wont hurt kaido

Zoro wants to beat his ass zoro wants to avenge yasu by doin so. Even hiyori basically his arc princess wants to get revenge on orochi
Zoro defeating the shogun could be a big ass deal in and out of wano that he could be known for

When it comes to kaido no its not impossible for zoro to do something to him but hes not at all getting more credit than luffy and possibly even kid and law

Kaido and orochi are partners and imo it would be meaningful of cool for luffy and zoro to take down each
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#19
Also with the whole odens will in general and how it can apply to both zoro and luffy

Oden wanted to take them both down too nit only kaido and not only orochi. So again imo itd be fitting for luffy to take down one and zoro the other
No but you ignore the fact that zoro isnt going anywhere near killing orochi without the ame no habikiri is the snake slayer sword the sword literally famed in japan for slaying the yamata no orochi
The other will be used against kaido despite both sword cutting kaido oda chose to only mention enma.
You should give up the story if you cant understand oda using sybolism.
Its all throughout the story.
Kizarus 3 moves being sacred japanese treasures
Blackbeards bounty being his real life counterparts bounty.
And so much more
This is the end of kozuki odens story when the borders open. Both his swords will be used to free wano from the respective tyrant.
 
#20
No but you ignore the fact that zoro isnt going anywhere near killing orochi without the ame no habikiri is the snake slayer sword the sword literally famed in japan for slaying the yamata no orochi
The other will be used against kaido despite both sword cutting kaido oda chose to only mention enma.
You should give up the story if you cant understand oda using sybolism.
Its all throughout the story.
Kizarus 3 moves being sacred japanese treasures
Blackbeards bounty being his real life counterparts bounty.
And so much more
This is the end of kozuki odens story when the borders open. Both his swords will be used to free wano from the respective tyrant.
Ok oda

Momo hurting orochi and zoro hurting kaido dont stop zoro from going for orochi.

And zoro himself isn't getting more credit than luffy for kaido and legit might get even less than law and kid.

I know orochi is weak but really you think a legit 8 year old can defeat him? Cause while orochi isn't the strongest person in wano he should definitely be stronger than an 8 year old
If zoro cant solo kaido momo most likely cant solo orochi

The passing the torch thing can also apply to luffy and zoro aswell. Again and 1 wants kaido while the other wants orochi
 
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