World War 3
- Thread starter TheAncientCenturion
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Russia sure as hell does not have any right to invade any country under any circumstances, but let's not be ridiculous; the US isn't expanding its influence towards the East just to have dinner with Russia's neighbors. If one of the US' neighbors did the same thing with Russia, and "invite" them to build a bunker or two, the US and the rest of the West would've liberated the said country a long time ago without us even knowing what's actually going on. Ukraine is at least getting some kind of help.
Here's the official teams list for WW3
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True but real power is within Kremlin whether oligarchs decided to have coupe against this madness.
Its clear party insider all fear him.
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True however the problem was brewing up since 90s . Most of the Russians opposed split of ukraine from ussr.
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Yeah, I am aware. Russia's been very serious about NATO's and EU's expansions since the 90s. The West didn't stop luring Ukraine into joining their side even after seeing what happened to Georgia the last time they tried something similar in 2008. At least, Ukraine should've learned something from it, but they didn't; and then they went ahead and blindly trusted the West would have their back and got too uppity.
The poor nation is left alone to face Putin's wrath. At least, we should be glad the whole world is railing behind Ukraine to support them in their own way regardless of how it's done. I hope my country too finds a way to help them even if we can't openly oppose Russia.
The poor nation is left alone to face Putin's wrath. At least, we should be glad the whole world is railing behind Ukraine to support them in their own way regardless of how it's done. I hope my country too finds a way to help them even if we can't openly oppose Russia.
No, there is no “but” after having no right to invade a country. You shall not pass and everything else is a blatant act of war, no matter what the excuse is - no ifs and buts. That part is black and white. Ukraine joining NATO is their prerogative, as well as any civil unrest. You want to protect Russian people within Ukraine? You try with all possible measures diplomatically and of course you support your people returning to Russia if they please, you don’t go invading the heart of another country 😂
Whether or not the US would do the same is of no relevance within this matter really, not sure why you’re mentioning it.
The US are blatantly crossing any borders they please all the time, and I condemn that as well
Whether or not the US would do the same is of no relevance within this matter really, not sure why you’re mentioning it.
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The US are blatantly crossing any borders they please all the time, and I condemn that as well
Not sure what you wanna say with that, it’s not reality so we should just let it be?
We have to strive to make international laws and relations a reality. Which is why you paint what is wrong and what is right, and not let the big boys do what they want.
I don’t need a reality check LOL, I was actually bombed by NATO
But this is no reason to sit back and say “that’s the way things are”. It may be so for the last few decades, but humankind has gone a long way from traditional conquering and warfare. The reason for this is working on international law and peace. Is it flawless? No. Can it be better? Hell yeah.
We have to strive to make international laws and relations a reality. Which is why you paint what is wrong and what is right, and not let the big boys do what they want.
I don’t need a reality check LOL, I was actually bombed by NATO
But this is no reason to sit back and say “that’s the way things are”. It may be so for the last few decades, but humankind has gone a long way from traditional conquering and warfare. The reason for this is working on international law and peace. Is it flawless? No. Can it be better? Hell yeah.
And they would still not dare to attack Mother Russia 
No, I am not saying we should just let it be. We need to be more practical about our approach. We're not living in an ideal world where everyone respects everyone equally. Sure, fair international laws and relationships are desirable and everyone, at least the common folk, aspires to live in such a world. But it's also important that we make our moves based on how things move right now, not based on how we think things should be. When you don't do that, you get results like Georgia, Cremia, and now Ukraine.
You certainly do I am afraid.
Certainly, we shouldn't sit by and do nothing—although that's what the world is doing rn as Ukraine is getting eaten alive. However, this is no reason to expect your enemy to operate at your terms as you do your own thing either. Good luck convincing Putin he's wrong in doing what he's doing. Do you think he'd listen or care about what the world thinks is wrong or right?
Definitely, the world changed for the better in a lot of ways in the past few decades, but the big boys' desire to control the world and expand their sphere of influence is very much alive today as much as it did a few decades ago. That's why NATO still exists—they're just not very open about it.
I don’t need a reality check LOL, I was actually bombed by NATO
Certainly, we shouldn't sit by and do nothing—although that's what the world is doing rn as Ukraine is getting eaten alive. However, this is no reason to expect your enemy to operate at your terms as you do your own thing either. Good luck convincing Putin he's wrong in doing what he's doing. Do you think he'd listen or care about what the world thinks is wrong or right?
Definitely, the world changed for the better in a lot of ways in the past few decades, but the big boys' desire to control the world and expand their sphere of influence is very much alive today as much as it did a few decades ago. That's why NATO still exists—they're just not very open about it.
What’s practical for you then, let’s hear it?
I did not say that everyone expect their enemies to react the same way, like wut 😂 it’s about reaching a unique system where everyone does so anyways.
You’re saying the rest of the world is doing nothing as if it’s a negative thing. What do you want them to do, more countries involved in the conflict? They’re precisely not doing that because they learned from previous experiences. It’s best not to escalate it if possible and look for alternate solutions to this.
It sounds to me like you’re saying: this is how the world works, it’s understandable why, we should all strike back
Like….. That’s regressing decades
And who said that the big forces aren’t trying to spread their influence? That’s ever present, and it’s the part of the reason everyone is afraid of Russia. If this was a tiny country in question, they’d be bombed by NATO asap 😂
I did not say that everyone expect their enemies to react the same way, like wut 😂 it’s about reaching a unique system where everyone does so anyways.
You’re saying the rest of the world is doing nothing as if it’s a negative thing. What do you want them to do, more countries involved in the conflict? They’re precisely not doing that because they learned from previous experiences. It’s best not to escalate it if possible and look for alternate solutions to this.
It sounds to me like you’re saying: this is how the world works, it’s understandable why, we should all strike back
Like….. That’s regressing decades
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And who said that the big forces aren’t trying to spread their influence? That’s ever present, and it’s the part of the reason everyone is afraid of Russia. If this was a tiny country in question, they’d be bombed by NATO asap 😂
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Ironic how Putin invaded Ukraine to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO and yet he's caused other nearby European countries to have a massive increase in public support for joining NATO out of fear of being invaded as well.
This war has and will backfire on Russia so badly, Putin's fear of NATO getting too close to his borders and too powerful will be largely irrelevant when he's made his country so weak that they can't prevent it.
If only it wasn't an authoritarian state, he'd have been forced to resign by now, can only hope a coup takes place but with how much Russia controls its population that doesn't seem all too likely.
This war has and will backfire on Russia so badly, Putin's fear of NATO getting too close to his borders and too powerful will be largely irrelevant when he's made his country so weak that they can't prevent it.
If only it wasn't an authoritarian state, he'd have been forced to resign by now, can only hope a coup takes place but with how much Russia controls its population that doesn't seem all too likely.
Perhaps, not do something that provokes the enemy that you can't handle by yourself at least until you're sure you wouldn't get abandoned?
Well, that's basically what you're suggesting.
Now we're on the same page. This is exactly what I've been talking about: "Factor in" the consequences before making dumb decisions thinking we're free to do whatever we want. And yes, the West abandoning Ukraine is both a wrong thing as well as a good thing. It's wrong because they pretended like they're gonna have Ukraine's back against Russia, which is what made Ukraine stand up to Russia in the first place. If they're gonna abandon them anyway, then they shouldn't have given them hope in the first place. They betrayed Ukraine, period.
I am saying they'd have avoided the conflict, in the first place, if the West didn't get involved as much as they did. It only made things worst for Ukraine. Putin is waiting for a reason to invade Ukraine and the entire West worked together to give him just that. It's a good thing because the situation is beyond anyone's control now. I already said not doing anything is the best thing the West can do rn given the situation:
No, not at all. I am talking about being more practical and understanding that freedom doesn't exist in this world in a true sense despite how much we've grown. Am I suggesting we shouldn't do anything to achieve true freedom for everyone? definitely, no. I am saying we shouldn't pretend like the world is perfect and act like it's perfect when it's clearly not.
That's what you suggested with the neighbor reference in your quote to reborn.
P.S. I hope I am not hurting anyone's feelings by being blunt. I don't care about political correctness but I do care about about the feelings of people who're affected by wars directs. I apologize if I did offend anyone with what I've said so far. It is not my intention to justify war crimes by any means. I'll try to avoid this thread as much as possible.
Well, that's basically what you're suggesting.
Now we're on the same page. This is exactly what I've been talking about: "Factor in" the consequences before making dumb decisions thinking we're free to do whatever we want. And yes, the West abandoning Ukraine is both a wrong thing as well as a good thing. It's wrong because they pretended like they're gonna have Ukraine's back against Russia, which is what made Ukraine stand up to Russia in the first place. If they're gonna abandon them anyway, then they shouldn't have given them hope in the first place. They betrayed Ukraine, period.
I am saying they'd have avoided the conflict, in the first place, if the West didn't get involved as much as they did. It only made things worst for Ukraine. Putin is waiting for a reason to invade Ukraine and the entire West worked together to give him just that. It's a good thing because the situation is beyond anyone's control now. I already said not doing anything is the best thing the West can do rn given the situation:
No, not at all. I am talking about being more practical and understanding that freedom doesn't exist in this world in a true sense despite how much we've grown. Am I suggesting we shouldn't do anything to achieve true freedom for everyone? definitely, no. I am saying we shouldn't pretend like the world is perfect and act like it's perfect when it's clearly not.
That's what you suggested with the neighbor reference in your quote to reborn.
P.S. I hope I am not hurting anyone's feelings by being blunt. I don't care about political correctness but I do care about about the feelings of people who're affected by wars directs. I apologize if I did offend anyone with what I've said so far. It is not my intention to justify war crimes by any means. I'll try to avoid this thread as much as possible.
You call making decisions about your own independent country provoking someone else? That's their internal business entirely. They're not at fault for Russia being a bully due to dictatorships.
Being reckless for their own good? Sure. But what you're saying is it's their fault. That's simply not true, it's 100% on the aggressor, always.
Like, what are you talking about, the West getting involved? At what point were they directly involved? Ukraine wanting part in EU and NATO is completely and entirely Ukraine's decision at the end of the day.
Putin literally does not need a reason to invade Ukraine if he wants to
He's out there telling his own people he started a special military mission to defend Russian predominant areas in Ukraine. NATO thing is just an excuse for the west and don't fall for it, they just wanna annex half of Ukraine and own them (less elegantly than Crimea). They already have NATO neighbors, that's clearly just bullshit.
You could say they were involved by the Crimea sanctions, but that one was well earned too.
No, what I suggested in my reference was the actual law? I did not say the world was perfect.
Being reckless for their own good? Sure. But what you're saying is it's their fault. That's simply not true, it's 100% on the aggressor, always.
Like, what are you talking about, the West getting involved? At what point were they directly involved? Ukraine wanting part in EU and NATO is completely and entirely Ukraine's decision at the end of the day.
Putin literally does not need a reason to invade Ukraine if he wants to
He's out there telling his own people he started a special military mission to defend Russian predominant areas in Ukraine. NATO thing is just an excuse for the west and don't fall for it, they just wanna annex half of Ukraine and own them (less elegantly than Crimea). They already have NATO neighbors, that's clearly just bullshit.
You could say they were involved by the Crimea sanctions, but that one was well earned too.
No, what I suggested in my reference was the actual law? I did not say the world was perfect.
Practical solutions are gone. Ukraine and russia needed to sort out their issue.
Ukraine should have opted to go Neutral over choosing Nato. Russia could have avoided war .
This war was not really needed.I think we all know major reason Ukraine had 4th largest natural gas around black sea and entire russian economy depends on it and putin felt it threatened russia's monopoly . This war had all different angles no wonder he had meeting with oligarchs in Kremlin before he made this move.
Ukraine should have opted to go Neutral over choosing Nato. Russia could have avoided war .
This war was not really needed.I think we all know major reason Ukraine had 4th largest natural gas around black sea and entire russian economy depends on it and putin felt it threatened russia's monopoly . This war had all different angles no wonder he had meeting with oligarchs in Kremlin before he made this move.
You call making decisions about your own independent country provoking someone else? That's their internal business entirely. They're not at fault for Russia being a bully due to dictatorships.
Being reckless for their own good? Sure. But what you're saying is it's their fault. That's simply not true, it's 100% on the aggressor, always.
Like, what are you talking about, the West getting involved? At what point were they directly involved? Ukraine wanting part in EU and NATO is completely and entirely Ukraine's decision at the end of the day.
Putin literally does not need a reason to invade Ukraine if he wants to
He's out there telling his own people he started a special military mission to defend Russian predominant areas in Ukraine. NATO thing is just an excuse for the west and don't fall for it, they just wanna annex half of Ukraine and own them (less elegantly than Crimea). They already have NATO neighbors, that's clearly just bullshit.
You could say they were involved by the Crimea sanctions, but that one was well earned too.
No, what I suggested in my reference was the actual law? I did not say the world was perfect.
Being reckless for their own good? Sure. But what you're saying is it's their fault. That's simply not true, it's 100% on the aggressor, always.
Like, what are you talking about, the West getting involved? At what point were they directly involved? Ukraine wanting part in EU and NATO is completely and entirely Ukraine's decision at the end of the day.
Putin literally does not need a reason to invade Ukraine if he wants to
He's out there telling his own people he started a special military mission to defend Russian predominant areas in Ukraine. NATO thing is just an excuse for the west and don't fall for it, they just wanna annex half of Ukraine and own them (less elegantly than Crimea). They already have NATO neighbors, that's clearly just bullshit.
You could say they were involved by the Crimea sanctions, but that one was well earned too.
No, what I suggested in my reference was the actual law? I did not say the world was perfect.
I agree that a country has every possible right to make its own decisions and it's not wrong by a metric. Ukraine has every right to make its own decisions too and Russia has no business getting involved. I even backed Ukraine's decision to join the EU's side in one of my earlier posts. But the thing is, Russia doesn't care about being correct. So it's not a matter of being wrong or right.
A mad man is roaming your street shouting he'd kill you if you step outside... Would you go out and confront him knowing full well that you're gonna get murdered? Obviously, it's not your fault that he's messed up in the head, and you have every possible right to go outside and walk across the road: You're right and he's wrong. But no person with a half-working brain would go out and stand before him because staying alive is more important than being right.
Ukraine did a similar thing with Russia and is facing the consequences. They made some bad choices but they did nothing wrong and they absolutely don't deserve what they're getting rn.
I rest my case with this as I don't wish to offend those who're affected by the ongoing events.