Speculations Ryokugyu is just a paramecia

[Garps tekkai]

It's very difficult to tell. I doubt it's a mythical Zoan tho:
For once his environmental manipulation effect is far too great and widespread and for the Nika fruit it's also just a thing because Luffy's body is rubbery, so he makes other things he touches rubbery aswell (on a very small scale) but he's not actively turning things into a latex like substance. Whereas Greenbull on the other hand is summoning whole forests wherever he goes.
Secondly it looks like his main ability is him turning into roots or plants, instead of transforming into an animal like- or humanoid being, that then has a certain special quirk.
Yamato is not turning into ice, she's just creating it. Even Marco is not really turning into phoenix flames, instead he's just making use of these flames that are given to him by his phoenix transformation.
Greenbull would have to be some kind of druid esque being that somehow can turn its body into roots or plants, which does not add, as that specific transformation quirk would rather be linked to a special paramecia or a logia, which also explains his incredible environmental manipulation technique.

I can't decide between those two tho, as both could be possible imo. You also couldn't tell the difference between Kuri and logias and in this case plants are even a natural phenomen.

 

[MarineHQ]

Special Paramecia or Logia at this point. This AoE is very unusual for a Zoan even mythical Zoan.

It's THE Natural element so I'd go with Logia.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

> logias only keep one element

Let's not be dishonest; "gas" can be seen as a unique elemment in the sense that is easily reducible to "gaseous state of matter" plus we can't visually distinguish between each gas Caesar is using; it remains an undefined whole of an elemment while Ryokugyu wouldn't be transforming into an "elemment" related to plants but growing specific species of flora.

Of course Oda can say that he ate the logia "Flora Flora no mi" or whatever it would be called in Japanese, but it would still be different from any other power in its class we've seen so far. People will put oxygen, hydrogen, helium in the same "gas" basket but good luck turning every tree plus bush plus any kind of flora into one category that feels like a single elemment; they have too many distinctive shapes and it's too conceptually complex to fit for me.

That's the way I see it at least.

Kata is special in a case that if you hit him without haki is is hurt aswell just like luffy could be hurt when hit like that... while logias dont get hurt, and Kata looked like logia with hes FS only... but still stupid decision by oda

That's not true, you can't hurt Katakuri without haki. Not only we've seen instances in which he was attacked without it yet had no effect (Capone shooting him) but Luffy himself was worry that he was using haki yet couldn't hurt him (because of his trick, of course, but the message that you need haki remains).

 

[Zolo]

Let's not be dishonest; "gas" can be seen as a unique elemment in the sense that is easily reducible to "gaseous state of matter" plus we can't visually distinguish between each gas Caesar is using; it remains an undefined whole of an elemment while Ryokugyu wouldn't be transforming into an "elemment" related to plants but growing specific species of flora.

Of course Oda can say that he ate the logia "Flora Flora no mi" or whatever it would be called in Japanese, but it would still be different from any other power in its class we've seen so far. People will put oxygen, hydrogen, helium in the same "gas" basket but good luck turning every tree plus bush plus any kind of flora into one category that feels like a single elemment; they have too many distinctive shapes and it's too conceptually complex to fit for me.

That's the way I see it at least.



That's not true, you can't hurt Katakuri without haki. Not only we've seen instances in which he was attacked without it yet had no effect (Capone shooting him) but Luffy himself was worry that he was using haki yet couldn't hurt him (because of his trick, of course, but the message that you need haki remains).

not really, its fs

 

[Dickie D. Dick]

B

Let's not be dishonest; "gas" can be seen as a unique elemment in the sense that is easily reducible to "gaseous state of matter" plus we can't visually distinguish between each gas Caesar is using; it remains an undefined whole of an elemment while Ryokugyu wouldn't be transforming into an "elemment" related to plants but growing specific species of flora.

Of course Oda can say that he ate the logia "Flora Flora no mi" or whatever it would be called in Japanese, but it would still be different from any other power in its class we've seen so far. People will put oxygen, hydrogen, helium in the same "gas" basket but good luck turning every tree plus bush plus any kind of flora into one category that feels like a single elemment; they have too many distinctive shapes and it's too conceptually complex to fit for me.

That's the way I see it at least.



That's not true, you can't hurt Katakuri without haki. Not only we've seen instances in which he was attacked without it yet had no effect (Capone shooting him) but Luffy himself was worry that he was using haki yet couldn't hurt him (because of his trick, of course, but the message that you need haki remains).

By that logic solid and fluid are also "elements"

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

By that logic solid and fluid are also "elements"

You don't have to use scientific logic but artistic, that's the problem with your approach. Fluids and solids are too distinctive for the reader to work like a sole element; hence why we have ice, magma, fire, sand and so on, because you can portray them as single elements whether it's scientifically accurate or not (hence why we have both an ice and a snow fruit). Caesar's "Gasu Gasu" power includes oxygen, helium, nitrogen... —in other words, what the average reader would put into a single category of "gas" element because you can't distinguish each of them with ease so we simplify them into one concept.

Again, just look at it from that perspective and you will see how little a power that allows you to grow specific species of plants each with a distinctive shape identifiable by the public actually fits the category. How would Ryokugyu's intangibility even work, what would his body be made of? You can make an Ace's replica made of fire; an ice statue of Aokiji; dissolve Caesar into undefined gas...; but what about Ryokugyu? Once he's broken is his body turning into wood, into flowers, into leaves, into roots...? Or are you replicating his body with shape-defined trees, bushes and such?

And I insist, I can see the argument behind "flora" being natural and therefore fitting a logia. If Oda follows this reasoning I will buy it. But it's clear to me that it doesn't work as well as the rest because you can't depict plants as a single, homogeneous element; they are too complex and have too-defined shapes for that to work in the way "a man made of fire", "a man made of electricity", "a man made of smoke", "a man made of snow"... and yes, "a man made of gas" do work.

 

[CoC: Color of Clowns]

Kata is special in a case that if you hit him without haki is is hurt aswell just like luffy could be hurt when hit like that... while logias dont get hurt, and Kata looked like logia with hes FS only... but still stupid decision by oda

Ohhhh, okay. I'm realizing what my issue was. Katakuri's CoA defenses are so tough, I didn't understand that Luffy could still hurt him with straight up punches.

Katakuri's Fruit isn't blocking him from damage, it's his insane Haki. Thanks, that clears a lot up for me.

I actually like weird Paramecia and Logia fruits, like Katakuri's and Hawkin's, but I wish Oda was more clear about how they functioned.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

Ohhhh, okay. I'm realizing what my issue was. Katakuri's CoA defenses are so tough, I didn't understand that Luffy could still hurt him with straight up punches.

Katakuri's Fruit isn't blocking him from damage, it's his insane Haki. Thanks, that clears a lot up for me.

I actually like weird Paramecia and Logia fruits, like Katakuri's and Hawkin's, but I wish Oda was more clear about how they functioned.

Don't believe him, you can't hurt Katakuri without armament. This is what happens when Bege shoots Katakuri without haki:

The bullets just hit the mochi without hurting Katakuri in the slightest, like any logia.

 

[Sentinel]

We have one logia admiral, one paramecia, then the third one is paramecia again? Sometimes people can't see the obvious pattern of the new admirals... Greenbull is definitely mythical zoan.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

We have one logia admiral, one paramecia, then the third one is paramecia again? Sometimes people can't see the obvious pattern of the new admirals... Greenbull is definitely mythical zoan.

The issue is: what mythical zoan would have plant powers?

Right now I can think of Genbu, Kodama and not much else.

 

[Sentinel]

Special Paramecia or Logia at this point. This AoE is very unusual for a Zoan even mythical Zoan.

It's THE Natural element so I'd go with Logia.

We basically have an unorthodox zoan with Hawkins and Kaido's fruit is mythical but he was able to manipulate the weather as well as creating entire elements which is also unusual for zoan.

So what's against the mythical zoan model: Forest God (example) idea if Greenbull has a passive ability of making more vegetation of his surroundings?

 

[Dickie D. Dick]

You don't have to use scientific logic but artistic, that's the problem with your approach. Fluids and solids are too distinctive for the reader to work like a sole elemment; hence why we have ice, magma, fire, sand and so on, because you can portray them as single elemments whether it's scientifically accurate or not (hence why we have both an ice and a snow fruit). Caesar's "Gasu Gasu" power includes oxygen, helium, nitrogen... —in other words, what the average reader would put into a single category of "gas" elemment because you can't distinguish each of them with ease so we simplify them into one concept.

Again, just look at it from that perspective and you will see how little a power that allows you to grow specific species of plants each with a distinctive shape identifiable by the public actually fits the category. How would Ryokugyu's intangibility even work, what would his body be made of? You can make an Ace's replica made of fire; an ice statue of Aokiji; dissolve Caesar into undefined gas...; but what about Ryokugyu? Once he's broken is his body turning into wood, into flowers, into leaves, into roots...? Or are you replicating his body with shape-defined trees, bushes and such?

And I insist, I can see the argument behind "flora" being natural and therefore fitting a logia. If Oda follows this reasoning I will buy it. But it's clear to me that it doesn't work as well as the rest because you can't depict plants as a single, homogeneous elemment; they are too complex and have too-defined shapes for that to work in the way "a man made of fire", "a man made of electricity", "a man made of smoke", "a man made of snow"... and yes, "a man made of gas" do work.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

Great answer! It's great to see that people can defend their positions.

 

[Sentinel]

The issue is: what mythical zoan would have plant powers?

Right now I can think of Genbu, Kodama and not much else.

Rn I don't have an exact idea of it but I was thinking about some sort of forest god or forest deity.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

Rn I don't have an exact idea of it but I was thinking about some sort of forest god or forest deity.

My issue with that is that it sounds too much like a Hito Hito model and I'm tired of them since we already have three mythical models.

 

[MarineHQ]

We basically have an unorthodox zoan with Hawkins and Kaido's fruit is mythical but he was able to manipulate the weather as well as creating entire elements which is also unusual for zoan.

So what's against the mythical zoan model: Forest God (example) idea if Greenbull has a passive ability of making more vegetation of his surroundings?

I just don't think that it would work out with a mythical zoan like what could it be?
Forest God?
Then he probably shouldn't have a hybrid as it would look pretty weird.

I think Logia is just easier to write. Well and i personally prefer logias lol

 

[Garp the Fist]

If Swamp can somehow be a logia then some sort of earth DF certainly can.

I hope for a Green Man Mythical Zoan but expect a (Special) Paramecia though

 

[MarineHQ]

If Swamp can somehow be a logia then some sort of earth DF certainly can.

I hope for a Green Man Mythical Zoan but expect a (Special) Paramecia though

Caribou should've never been a logia tbh.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Caribou should've never been a logia tbh.

I think he’s literally just a logia for the scene where Pekoms smashes shit out of him to prove Logia’s aren’t special in the New World.

 

[MarineHQ]

I think he’s literally just a logia for the scene where Pekoms smashes shit out of him to prove Logia’s aren’t special in the New World.

Agreed. I personally would retcon him to a special paramecia, maybe Smoker as well.