Character Discussion This chapter shows the difference between a vice captain and the other underlings

[Shanal]

These pages should speak for themselves

Usopp is seeing Sanji and Zoro's discussion, and the first thing he thinks about is: Someone needs to act as the Vice Captain.

Spoiler

Sanji was literally called the Captain of the crew, he even had a name for his crew.

Obviously you will say that if Zoro was there, then Zoro would be the Captain, right? Because supposedly thats how Oda treats Zoro and Sanji. Zoro is the Captain wannabe and Sanji is his subbordinate, wow that happened so many times in the manga i already lost the count

None of what you said is something I disagree with?

Sanji is part of the wings.

Sanji will always take command when neither Zoro or Luffy are there. Of course he was leading the remaining ones.

Now, how do you deny literal canonical material in VC and Usopp Gallery calling Zoro one most like Vice Captain, Luffy's shadow and #2?

The same Usopp thinks Zoro is the captain's shadow who looks after crew, btw, as per Oda's label in UG.

Alongside the fact that whenever Zoro and Sanji are both present, but Luffy isn't, and someone took charge seriously; it's always Zoro. Gave many examples. It has literally happened. And no, Sanji isn't a "subordinate". Zoro is just the known who usually takes initiative in those cases and everyone respect it.

It's not inferior superior shit. They aren't that shallow.

Or are you just here to ignore what others say and repeat same retarded shit over and over again.

 

[mrtsrdr]

None of what you said is something I disagree with?

Sanji is part of the wings.

Sanji will always take command when neither Zoro or Luffy are there. Of course he was leading the remaining ones.

Now, how do you deny literal canonical material in VC and Usopp Gallery calling Zoro one most like Vice Captain, Luffy's shadow and #2?

Alongside the fact that whenever Zoro and Sanji are both present, but Luffy isn't, and someone took charge seriously; it's always Zoro. Gave many examples.

Or are you just here to ignore what others say and repeat same retarded shit over and over again.

Luffy has never called or thought hierarchy. You just take what you need . During 25 years , you have just shown barely two vivre card examples which is not clear. Last bounty introduction

Sword Master Zoro

Rayleigh introduction vice captain .

Why are u declining facts ? Is it hard ?

 

[Shanal]

Luffy has never called or thought hierarchy. You just take what you need . During 25 years , you have just shown barely two vivre card examples which is not clear. Last bounty introduction

Sword Master Zoro

Rayleigh introduction vice captain .

Why are u declining facts ? Is it hard ?

Yes, Zoro is not officially Vice Captain. No one disagreed with that.

Next time, read what people are saying before forcing yourself into their arguments.

 

[mrtsrdr]

Yes, Zoro is not officially Vice Captain. No one disagreed with that.

Next time, read what people are saying before forcing yourself into their arguments.

Zoro is not vice captain both way . Luffy order zoro do this is the zoro . Meaningless talking dont make you vice captain :)

 

[Luffydom56]

Zoro is not vice captain both way . Luffy order zoro do this is the zoro . Meaningless talking dont make you vice captain :)

Zoro is the only vice captain, cry about it

 

[Shanal]

Zoro is not vice captain both way . Luffy order zoro do this is the zoro . Meaningless talking dont make you vice captain :)

Wth are you even talking about.

Again, read what other people are saying and respond to their points or don't start saying random stuff when no one is talking to you

 

[Julius]

None of what you said is something I disagree with?

Sanji is part of the wings.

Sanji will always take command when neither Zoro or Luffy are there. Of course he was leading the remaining ones.

Now, how do you deny literal canonical material in VC and Usopp Gallery calling Zoro one most like Vice Captain, Luffy's shadow and #2?

Alongside the fact that whenever Zoro and Sanji are both present, but Luffy isn't, and someone took charge seriously; it's always Zoro. Gave many examples.

Or are you just here to ignore what others say and repeat same retarded shit over and over again.

When did Zoro took charge over Sanji?

Thats what you're failling to understand. On top of that, you're trying to put Luffy and Zoro in the same pedestal to make Sanji seem less relevant in the crew's leadership.

"When Zoro and Luffy aren't there, then Sanji can lead or do something by his own", and thats obviously a lie and average Ztard headcanon, never happened. Thats the same of calling Zoro Sanji's subbordinate because Sanji already took the Captain role once.

Pointing out similarities between Luffy and Zoro wont change the fact that Sanji exists, and someone can also make a thread pointing out similarities between Luffy and Sanji as well to argue the same stuff or other stuff.

That supposed Zoro wank is just an extreme Luffy wank in disguise, by mistaking Zoro as the Captain because he usually has the 2nd highest bounty, is a Supernova and is almost always getting into trouble alongside Luffy. Sanji doesn't always gets that clout and that is okay, Sanji doesn't need to be a literal blonde Zoro and thats exactly what Oda is aiming for, which doesn't changes the fact that nobody has more authority in the crew than Sanji other than Luffy when he sets his mind into something, the same goes for Zoro.

Who cares about what Usopp thinks? He called himself the Vice Captain after seeing Zoro and Sanji discussion LoL. While Zoro is supposedly being mistaken as the Captain, Sanji is acting through the shadows, leading people outside the crew and making them his allies, planning escape routes and coming out with solutions to solve problems.

Jinbe has the 3rd highest bounty and he already treated Sanji like he had a superior authority in the crew during WCI, everyone there treated Sanji like that, including Bege and his crew. Black Maria and Queen literally thought Sanji was the "number 2" because of bounty.

Its just common sense, as i said, there is much more to support Zoro and Sanji as wings than Zoro as "vice captain" or some shit

 

[mrtsrdr]

Zoro is the only vice captain, cry about it

Woroorororo

 

[Shanal]

When did Zoro took charge over Sanji?

R e a d

When you wipe off the tears and actually read the points people presented before responding angrily, you'd know the examples they give!

Thats what you're failling to understand. On top of that, you're trying to put Luffy and Zoro in the same pedestal to make Sanji seem less relevant in the crew's leadership.

"When Zoro and Luffy aren't there, then Sanji can lead or do something by his own", and thats obviously a lie and average Ztard headcanon, never happened. Thats the same of calling Zoro Sanji's subbordinate because Sanji already took the Captain role once.

Pointing out similarities between Luffy and Zoro wont change the fact that Sanji exists, and someone can also make a thread pointing out similarities between Luffy and Sanji as well to argue the same stuff or other stuff.

That supposed Zoro wank is just an extreme Luffy wank in disguise, by mistaking Zoro as the Captain because he usually has the 2nd highest bounty, is a Supernova and is almost always getting into trouble alongside Luffy. Sanji doesn't have that clout and that is okay, Sanji doesn't need to be a blonde Zoro and thats exactly what Oda wants, which doesn't changes the fact that nobody has more authority in the crew than Sanji other than Luffy when he sets his mind into something.

Who cares about what Usopp thinks? He called himself the Vice Captain after seeing Zoro and Sanji discussion LoL. When Zoro is supposedly being mistaken as the Captain, Sanji is acting through the shadows, leading people outside the crew and making them his allies, planning escape routes and coming out with solutions to solve problems.

Jinbe has the 3rd highest bounty and he already treated Sanji like he had a superior authority in the crew during WCI, everyone there treated Sanji like that, including Bege and his crew. Black Maria and Queen literally thought Sanji was the "number 2" because of bounty.

Its just common sense

Luffy > Zoro > Sanji in that pedestal. I'm not trying to put Luffy and Zoro in same pedestal. You talk about A LOT of irrelevant shit.

I give Sanji credit where it's due. He's a great leader. #3, takes the charge the first two aren't there, and is wings and among two biggest pillars of support alongside Zoro. But that doesn't change the fact that Oda takes even a step higher when it comes to Zoro's narrative importance in every manner. Something he doesn't do for Sanji.

Sanji won't ever share the #2 spot with Zoro. Not in strength, not in narrative importance, and not in leadership. No matter how desperately you want it to be. He'll always be behind. Just like how Zoro is to Luffy in all those.

You still didn't address anything that counters what I said about Vivre Card or Usopp Gallery. Oda explicitly calling him closest to VC alongside dubbing him as Luffy's shadow and #2.

 

[mrtsrdr]

R e a d

When you wipe off the tears and actually read the points people presented before responding angrily, you'd know the examples they give!



Luffy > Zoro > Sanji in that pedestal. I'm not trying to put Luffy and Zoro in same pedestal. You talk about A LOT of irrelevant shit.

I give Sanji credit where it's due. He's a great leader. #3, takes the charge the first two aren't there, and is wings and among two biggest pillars of support alongside Zoro. But that doesn't change the fact that Oda takes even a step higher when it comes to Zoro's narrative importance in every manner. Something he doesn't do for Sanji.

Sanji won't ever share the #2 spot with Zoro. Not in strength, not in narrative importance, and not in leadership. No matter how desperately you want it to be. He'll always be behind. Just like how Zoro is to Luffy in all those.

You still didn't address anything that counters what I said about Vivre Card or Usopp Gallery. Oda explicitly calling him closest to VC alongside dubbing him as Luffy's shadow and #2.

Dude are u okay ? You are not drunk ? You claimed everything irrevelant and you are talking same thing :))

Of course he is luffys shadow because he took order from just luffy and he did not care about others so normal . We are saying he is not vice captain you said irrevelant and you broguht vivre card again what is your deal i dont understand :))

 

[Shanal]

Dude are u okay ? You are not drunk ? You claimed everything irrevelant and you are talking same thing :))

Of course he is luffys shadow because he took order from just luffy and he did not care about others so normal . We are saying he is not vice captain you said irrevelant and you broguht vivre card again what is your deal i dont understand :))

Bro. I'm not talking to you. He's not talking to you. You don't even know the core argument. Why are you so obsessed?

 

[Julius]

Luffy > Zoro > Sanji in that pedestal. I'm not trying to put Luffy and Zoro in same pedestal. You talk about A LOT of irrelevant shit.

I give Sanji credit where it's due. He's a great leader. #3, takes the charge the first two aren't there, and is wings and among two biggest pillars of support alongside Zoro. But that doesn't change the fact that Oda takes even a step higher when it comes to Zoro's narrative importance in every manner. Something he doesn't do for Sanji.

You still didn't address anything that counters what I said about Vivre Card or Usopp Gallery.

Sanji was literally called the Captain of the crew dude

Doesn't that should automatically contradict the stuff you say about "Oda taking a step higher with Zoro"?

If Zoro was on Sanji's place, you would be arguing Zoro is the literal 2nd Captain and even that Sanji would be his subbordinate, but since it is Sanji, then "This clearly only happened because Luffy (the Captain) AAAND OBVIOUSLY ZORO were not there"

How does Oda takes Zoro's narrative importance beyond Sanji when Luffy literally said "I can't be the Pirate King without you"?

This is Oda saying the story (Luffy's story) basically doesn't exists or makes sense without Sanji. Luffy lowkey shit on what Zoro said about "respecting the Captain" in Usopp's case during Water 7 solely because Sanji was the matter there.

Before Wano, you guys loved so much to brag about Luffy and Zoro being a Supernova, until being a Supernova was reduced to ashes, something meaningless, a group on which most were revealed as irrelevant fodders who were lucky to get a 100mi bounty before reaching the Grand Line.

 

[ThunderSupernova]

The Kings

Meanwhile Simpji
Useless clown
Cringe as usual

 

[Shanal]

Sanji was literally called the Captain of the crew dude

Doesn't that should automatically contradict the stuff you say about "Oda taking a step higher with Zoro"?

If Zoro was on Sanji's place, you would be arguing Zoro is the literal 2nd Captain and even that Sanji would be his subbordinate, but since it is Sanji, then "This clearly only happened because Luffy (the Captain) AAAND OBVIOUSLY ZORO were not there"

How does Oda takes Zoro's narrative importance beyond Sanji when Luffy literally said "I can't be the Pirate King without you"?

This is Oda saying the story (Luffy's story) basically doesn't exists or makes sense without Sanji. Luffy lowkey shit on what Zoro said about "respecting the Captain" in Usopp's case during Water 7 solely because Sanji was the matter there.

Before Wano, you guys loved so much to brag about Luffy and Zoro being a Supernova, until being a Supernova was reduced to ashes, something meaningless, a group on which most were revealed as irrelevant fodders who were lucky to get a 100mi bounty before reaching the Grand Line.

I've agreed with pretty much everything you said. As stated before. Sanji being captain of a crew with neither Luffy nor Zoro doesn't change anything I said. If they both go away, he'd be captain by default, being #3.

None if it changes that Zoro is still #2 and Oda goes even further to put Zoro in a higher pedestal in strenght, narrative, importance or leadership, all while maintaining wings dynamic.

I gave my reasoning. I gave you both Vivre Card and Usopp Gallery directly by Oda, too, we don't even need to discuss Manga because those close the case anyway. Y9u failed to counter any.

All you've done is bitch and moan and say they don't matter.

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

Zoro is the first mate and Sanji is the chief of staff

 

[Julius]

I've agreed with pretty much everything you said. As stated before.

None if it changes that Sanji is still #2 and Oda goes even further to put Zoro in a higher pedestal in strenght, narrative, importance or leadership, all while maintaining wings dynamic.

I gave my reasoning. I gave you both Vivre Card and Usopp Gallery directly by Oda, too, we don't even need to discuss Manga because those close the case anyway. Y9u failed to counter any.

All you've done is bitch and moan and say they don't matter.

I didn't said they don't matter, you're just refusing to accept that Oda puts Zoro and Sanji in a similar pedestal on some aspects, despite the differences between their characters that are going to exist anyway, they aren't meant to be a copy of each other.

You point me something out to prove "Zoro is this" or "Zoro is that", from more than a decade ago that could even possibly be a contradiction made by Oda himself (something that has already happened before), then i point you out something that does the same or more for Sanji, but you can't take it wisely, instead keeps repeating the same stuff over and over again in order to favor Zoro in a much higher extent without any reasonable argue to justify such approach and behaviour other than mere fanboyism, which is completely okay, you can be a diehard fanboy

 

[Shanal]

I didn't said they don't matter, you're just refusing to accept that Oda puts Zoro and Sanji in a similar pedestal on some aspects, despite the difference between their characters that are going to exist anyway, they aren't meant to be a copy of each other.

You point me something out to prove "Zoro is this" or "Zoro is that", from more than a decade ago that could even possibly be a contradiction made by Oda himself (something that has already happened before), then i point you out something that does the same or more for Sanji, but you can't take it wisely, instead keeps repeating the same stuff over and over again in order to favor Zoro in a much higher extent without any reasonable argue to justify such approach other than mere fanboyism

Oda puts Zoro and Sanji in similar pedestal when it comes to them being wings, biggest pillars of support for Luffy, etc etc.

But Oda goes out of his way to put Zoro at a higher pedestal, too. Vivre Card, Usopp Gallery. Making only Zoro take real command during aspects where everyone is present but Luffy. Making Zoro take Luffy's entire pain instead of having them share it, etc. Outright CALLING him the #2 not once but twice, calling him Luffy's shadow who looks after crew, Sanji included.

I always accept wings portrayal. They'll always be on same pedestal in regards to that. Just like how M3 portrayal works. But it doesn't change the fact that Oda goes out of his way to also establish a #1, #2 and #3 parallel with Luffy, Zoro and Sanji, too. Gold, silver, copper.



You're the only one looking at wings portrayal only and refusing to accept that despite that, Zoro also has his own separate portrayal that sets him apart. Luffy can have both wings and his two best men all while having Zoro as the closest thing to RHM/VC ahead of Sanji, which he's outright stated to be in canonical material. It ain't that deep.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Zoro is the captain not a vice captain

Post automatically merged: Sep 16, 2022

Zoro is the captain

 

[Kiiro]

No, Zoro is a terrible leader.

This is the same as when Sanji was taken by Big Mom and Zoro said to leave Sanji, even telling Nami to shut up on Zou

Had Luffy listened to Zoro, Sanji would be dead by now, as Big Mom would have killed all the vinsmokes at the Tea party.

Also the last time Luffy left Ace to his device, it ended up in tragedy.

Zoro is terrible with Nakama.

Vivi will die and there will be blood on Zoro's hands.

This is going to be lesson for Luffy.

Well, Sanji indeed lost his spot, he didn't even deserved to be on the ship when he kicked Luffy's ass and even Nami smacked him. So Zoro was right about him, but Luffy changed Sanji once again. Sanji before never asked help, in wano he did. Sanji grew more thanks to Luffy, but if we're to talk about the one sho left the ship, he definitely didn't deserve to come back.

And Ace? Luffy said it, he has his own adventure. It was some bad luck for Ace, at the end he even died just because he couldn't escape, even when he already was rescued. Not Luffy's fault.

And why blood in his hands? They don't know where Vivi is at, so why risk everything for nothing?

Post automatically merged: Sep 16, 2022

Zoro and Rayleigh part: No. 2 who becomes the shadow captain and supports the crew

What does it say about Doflamingo?

 

[matt245]

No, Zoro is a terrible leader.

This is the same as when Sanji was taken by Big Mom and Zoro said to leave Sanji, even telling Nami to shut up on Zou

Had Luffy listened to Zoro, Sanji would be dead by now, as Big Mom would have killed all the vinsmokes at the Tea party.

Also the last time Luffy left Ace to his device, it ended up in tragedy.

Zoro is terrible with Nakama.

Vivi will die and there will be blood on Zoro's hands.

This is going to be lesson for Luffy.

Not his fault, Sanji acted like a dumbass and went to solve everything in his own causing travel for everyone. If he said "guys I need help" do you rlly think that Zoro would've said "No?". And regarding Ace, Luffy's own stupidity killed him. Instead of running the fuck away he waited for Akainu to give him a hug.