General & Others King Vs Zoro sucked: Morj Breakdsdown how dumb this fight was
- Thread starter ImmaIvanoM
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King turne flame off is him going into offensive.
by that point King already know even in flame mode zoro can damage him.
read the manga instead of what someone think on youtube.
everything you need to kow Oda already told in the king fight.
King's ability is kinda like Rinnegan or senjutsu.
You cant easily damage a senjusu user.
you have two option.
-wait for the 5 second cooldown/them to reverse back to base before you attack.
-Or just straight up overpower it if you are strong enough.
by that point King already know even in flame mode zoro can damage him.
read the manga instead of what someone think on youtube.
everything you need to kow Oda already told in the king fight.
King's ability is kinda like Rinnegan or senjutsu.
You cant easily damage a senjusu user.
you have two option.
-wait for the 5 second cooldown/them to reverse back to base before you attack.
-Or just straight up overpower it if you are strong enough.
If that was the case Zoro would say Its impossible to damage a flame on lunarian instead he say Its almost impossible to damage flame on lunarian.
Oda gave lunarian two weakness, the first is getting overwelmed like zoro did with king, second is for character that dont have top tier AP to stand a chane aka flame off.
And we know this to be true cause Zoro already commented on it in onigashima when king started blocking his attack after he unlocked adv coc.
this is also consistant with luffy and zoro ot using coc against seraphim.
Oda gave lunarian two weakness, the first is getting overwelmed like zoro did with king, second is for character that dont have top tier AP to stand a chane aka flame off.
And we know this to be true cause Zoro already commented on it in onigashima when king started blocking his attack after he unlocked adv coc.
this is also consistant with luffy and zoro ot using coc against seraphim.
I believe it must be unsatisfying for you to know the background for the character-development - if I may call it that - was anything but what you hoped for. But I also think it is very important that Oda lets you know that Zoro is still not a master of it. Because as you have mentioned right now, the process to master Haki comes with time. And seeing that Zoro still lacks in this aspect tells us Oda is probably going to focus on the process of Zoro developing his Haki in a way, that he may become better. As a Zoro-fan - see it from the side that Oda lets room open for him to become stronger. And if you remember back, when Luffy was in tha prison, Hyogoro stated that you get better with Haki the more you use it.
What I want to tell you is - Zoro is still in the process of mastering it and is no master in it, yet. That doesn't mean he will never become better in it, right? ;)
I forgot to mention, that Vegapunk is still drawing data from the fights the Seraphim have - it means they are not fully aware of what they can do and what not - so maybe Shaka didn't know about the flames. That is a possibility.
What I want to tell you is - Zoro is still in the process of mastering it and is no master in it, yet. That doesn't mean he will never become better in it, right? ;)
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I forgot to mention, that Vegapunk is still drawing data from the fights the Seraphim have - it means they are not fully aware of what they can do and what not - so maybe Shaka didn't know about the flames. That is a possibility.
@Rambles what are you talking about? There was no character development… That’s the problem… There was nothing there… Zoro basically just wanted to win so much that Oda just gave him the most important power in the series just for that
while everyone else gets CoC because of actual character moments
you seem to be new to the online discussion around Zoro getting CoC… But I’ve been here for over a decade now..: Back when people thought it was impossible for Zoro to get CoC because his character didn’t match Oda’s stated characteristics for CoC users…
And some of us who wanted Zoro to get CoC over a decade ago pointed out that Oda always gives CoC users a character arc in order to grow into this ability and of course Zoro would get one too… And then 10 years later Zoro gets CoC just because he wanted to win a fight really bad… And because he got a magic sword
it seems you don’t understand the issue with Enma here. The issue is that Kid Luffy and Kid Ace and Kid Doffy are seemingly BETTER AT COC THAN ZORO… Do you understand now? There is no other character that needs outside assistance no matter how inexperienced they are with Haki BUT ZORO
GET IT? Oda both doesn’t give Zoro the character arc every other CoC user gets and doesn’t give Zoro the mastery of CoC that first time 8 year olds get since apparently he needs a sword when fucking babies can do this shit without it
Wano was a completely travesty for Zoro as a character with Oda not sparing even one second to think about what Zoro as a character deserves
@Redboy776 Zoro’s Onigiri on King made him blood fly off him… Remember? That first attack he did next to Sanji…
also why didn’t Oda explain that Marco’s flames have “anti-lunarian” properties… You said Marco damaged Prometheus… But notice that Oda explains it when that happened… Why didn’t Oda explain that the Phoenix fruit is the kryptonite of the entire Lunarian race?
while everyone else gets CoC because of actual character moments
you seem to be new to the online discussion around Zoro getting CoC… But I’ve been here for over a decade now..: Back when people thought it was impossible for Zoro to get CoC because his character didn’t match Oda’s stated characteristics for CoC users…
And some of us who wanted Zoro to get CoC over a decade ago pointed out that Oda always gives CoC users a character arc in order to grow into this ability and of course Zoro would get one too… And then 10 years later Zoro gets CoC just because he wanted to win a fight really bad… And because he got a magic sword
it seems you don’t understand the issue with Enma here. The issue is that Kid Luffy and Kid Ace and Kid Doffy are seemingly BETTER AT COC THAN ZORO… Do you understand now? There is no other character that needs outside assistance no matter how inexperienced they are with Haki BUT ZORO
GET IT? Oda both doesn’t give Zoro the character arc every other CoC user gets and doesn’t give Zoro the mastery of CoC that first time 8 year olds get since apparently he needs a sword when fucking babies can do this shit without it
Wano was a completely travesty for Zoro as a character with Oda not sparing even one second to think about what Zoro as a character deserves
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@Redboy776 Zoro’s Onigiri on King made him blood fly off him… Remember? That first attack he did next to Sanji…
also why didn’t Oda explain that Marco’s flames have “anti-lunarian” properties… You said Marco damaged Prometheus… But notice that Oda explains it when that happened… Why didn’t Oda explain that the Phoenix fruit is the kryptonite of the entire Lunarian race?
Could you please, read the first sentence I ever wrote to you, again?
I am not the person, who attibutes this much importance to strength as a character trait.
In short I'm an analyst - I normally don't do powerscaling and all this. And I don't think I ever will, seeing how heated it is already geting over here.
I hope you will see Zoro's character development soon, though. Bye.
I am not the person, who attibutes this much importance to strength as a character trait.
In short I'm an analyst - I normally don't do powerscaling and all this. And I don't think I ever will, seeing how heated it is already geting over here.
I hope you will see Zoro's character development soon, though. Bye.
That's what happens when you rush shit. You can tell King's abilities were a last minute addition, during the fight.
All for G5 & "Shanks'" shit movie.
All for G5 & "Shanks'" shit movie.
Anyway that's just another Morj miss. The simple reason, which seems to fly over your heads, is the fact that King got scared.
When Zoro learnt how to flow CoC into his attacks, he lands a hit on King's face slashing him. Now this is the same King that was casually taking attacks from Zoro beforehand.
After this new attack, its quite obvious be felt that Zoro got stronger. From not being able to scratch him, to bypassing his defences.
Now a sensible person, which King is in this regard, would not think "oh let me just stay in my defence mode, cause he can't touch me", they would be wary of their opponent who just now has the ability to harm them.
That is why he was dodging & blocking later onwards. He didn't know if his defences would hold up against Zoro & wasn't taking any chances.
It's literally also the reason why Zoro, says he's almost invincible when he's in flames on mode. Note this is coming from a Zoro who hasn't landed any AdCoC on flames on King, because he kept running away.
We'll see what actually works on flames on Lunarians, obviously it won't be nothing like an adult lunarians flames on defences, in the coming chapters.
TL;DR:
King did not want to risk staying in flames on form, because he didn't want to risk getting hit by Zoro new more powerful attacks. Resorted to using flames off + speed and ultimately paid the price
When Zoro learnt how to flow CoC into his attacks, he lands a hit on King's face slashing him. Now this is the same King that was casually taking attacks from Zoro beforehand.
After this new attack, its quite obvious be felt that Zoro got stronger. From not being able to scratch him, to bypassing his defences.
Now a sensible person, which King is in this regard, would not think "oh let me just stay in my defence mode, cause he can't touch me", they would be wary of their opponent who just now has the ability to harm them.
That is why he was dodging & blocking later onwards. He didn't know if his defences would hold up against Zoro & wasn't taking any chances.
It's literally also the reason why Zoro, says he's almost invincible when he's in flames on mode. Note this is coming from a Zoro who hasn't landed any AdCoC on flames on King, because he kept running away.
We'll see what actually works on flames on Lunarians, obviously it won't be nothing like an adult lunarians flames on defences, in the coming chapters.
TL;DR:
King did not want to risk staying in flames on form, because he didn't want to risk getting hit by Zoro new more powerful attacks. Resorted to using flames off + speed and ultimately paid the price
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Nah, both were required: King in flame off mode is still very durable and difficult to damage. It's not like Lunarians turn into normal humans, when in flame off mode, as seen when King could take CoC infused bird dance in flame off mode.
And King with CoA infused sword swings was > Zoro, means that pre CoC Zoro would ultimately lack the power to hang with base King and he would get steamrolled by Hybrid King's sheer power. Additonally he had that timelimit and even if KoH could have defeated King in the long run w/o the need to expose the lunarian gimmick, he wouldn't have gotten to the point where this could have been a realistic outcome.
With just either of the two he wouldn't have won the fight: CoA Zoro gets steamrolled and KoH Zoro w/o the gimmick exposure would get killed by his own sword.
CoC Zoro w/o the timelimit might be interesting, but it stands to question, whether CoC even damages them enough in order to defeat them, cause King actually took those KoH attacks in flame on mode.
And King with CoA infused sword swings was > Zoro, means that pre CoC Zoro would ultimately lack the power to hang with base King and he would get steamrolled by Hybrid King's sheer power. Additonally he had that timelimit and even if KoH could have defeated King in the long run w/o the need to expose the lunarian gimmick, he wouldn't have gotten to the point where this could have been a realistic outcome.
With just either of the two he wouldn't have won the fight: CoA Zoro gets steamrolled and KoH Zoro w/o the gimmick exposure would get killed by his own sword.
CoC Zoro w/o the timelimit might be interesting, but it stands to question, whether CoC even damages them enough in order to defeat them, cause King actually took those KoH attacks in flame on mode.
H
You both are just assuming flames are conscious controlled by Lunarians which we don't know and also are just assuming they can be flames on forever which we also doesn't know.
I agree that the fight was poorly structured because it had an unnecessary plot on Enma nerfing Zoro which is stupid since beginning(pre-Oden flashback). But no the fight doesn't even show Zoro learning CoC. He just releases everything he had and CoC was already there. This is way different from Luffy learning Future Sight against Katakuri(which he didn't used to beat him too). And yes it sucks that learning CoC almost makes no difference since Zoro just needed to learn about Luanarian weakness and we don't even know if CoC attacks can hurt Lunarians with Flames On.
So the fight had some poor plots but overall was great. That's why I put it as #2 Zoro best fight after Zoro vs Daz Bones(just perfect).
I agree that the fight was poorly structured because it had an unnecessary plot on Enma nerfing Zoro which is stupid since beginning(pre-Oden flashback). But no the fight doesn't even show Zoro learning CoC. He just releases everything he had and CoC was already there. This is way different from Luffy learning Future Sight against Katakuri(which he didn't used to beat him too). And yes it sucks that learning CoC almost makes no difference since Zoro just needed to learn about Luanarian weakness and we don't even know if CoC attacks can hurt Lunarians with Flames On.
So the fight had some poor plots but overall was great. That's why I put it as #2 Zoro best fight after Zoro vs Daz Bones(just perfect).
