And how do you evacuate Palestinians from Gaza, exactly?
They were told to evacuate before the bombings, but all the border crossings were conveniantly closed to them.
It's like a bad joke - "Ok, evacuate before we raze everything. Oh btw you actually can't evacuate anywhere, but we did our part by saying this PR shit. Back to bombing everything."
All this evacuation bs is a bad joke that sadly people around the world bought into. There is no possibility for evacuation out of Gaza when the area has been barred more tightly than ever, with worse restrictions on the people than before.
I'm not in favor of the idea of the jewish people keeping quietly and let a group that want to exterminate them live.
Worst of all not even retaliating when they kill them. IF you want another holocaust and the Jewish people being killed left and right just say it. At least this has the virtue of being honest.
I would appreciate if you don't add me anymore in your replies. I can't block you since some people that I actually appreciate reading and have some good insights try to reply to you. I promise that I will not engage again unless provoked.
So what about the idf and the Israeli state who are actively trying to exterminate all Palestinians in Gaza? Is that part acceptable? If you truly had a principled stance on genocide, you'd know that's exactly what the IDF has been doing for YEARS.
So what about the idf and the Israeli state who are actively trying to exterminate all Palestinians in Gaza? Is that part acceptable? If you truly had a principled stance on genocide, you'd know that's exactly what the IDF has been doing for YEARS.
Whataboutism is not always the answer @Toby D. Dog and also your words that implicate that anyone that is against Hamas was in favor of those policies is a little disgusting. Instead of deflection try to address the argument.
What I said is that the idea of letting Hamas try their best to kill Jews until they get tired is the same as a apology to genocide. The end result will be more and more Jewish people killed because Hamas was founded with the objective of killing those people.
You said that you were against Hamas. If so, stop trying to give excuses for their behavior and trying to justify the genocide of jews with the excuse that they deserve it for their past.
I might regret this, but I am curious. For everyone who is very invested in this discussion, what should be the immediate action from the Israeli government towards Gaza or Hamas? Since it's obvious Israel holds all the cards at this point in time.
Whataboutism is not always the answer @Toby D. Dog and also your words that implicate that anyone that is against Hamas was in favor of those policies is a little disgusting. Instead of deflection try to address the argument.
What I said is that the idea of letting Hamas try their best to kill Jews until they get tired is the same as a apology to genocide. The end result will be more and more Jewish people killed because Hamas was founded with the objective of killing those people.
You said that you were against Hamas. If so, stop trying to give excuses for their behavior and trying to justify the genocide of jews with the excuse that they deserve it for their past.
Bro, I'm on the side of innocent civilians, that includes palestinians, which are systematically being ethnic cleansed by the Israeli state. Idk if you actually understand what "whataboutism" really is. If I was engaging in whataboutism I'd be justifying what Hamas is doing since the IDF does it too. That is not what's happening here. Although Israeli civilians are suffering right now and being murdered in horrendous ways, the same shit happens all the time in gaza and people like you don't give a shit then. You just can't answer honestly to the premise of the question and instead you have to strawman my argument implying that I'm justifying the murder and genocide of Israeli civilians. The whole point is what you're blaming hamas for (rightfully) the Israeli state is guilty of too, and has been doing so for decades. So no lil bro, I'm not justifying genocide or Jewish ethnic cleansing in any way, shape or form. But you certainly love to bring up genocide but just when it affects your side, not when your side is the perpetrator.
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If it were the Israeli's being held in a gigantic concentration camp without clean water, enough medicine, and basically all their basic recourses were controlled by the Palestinian state, I'd be making the same argument. I'd condemn the action of Israeli terrorist if they were to kill innocent civilians but I'd also acknowledge their struggle against a foreign government actively trying to eradicate them from existence.
I leave you all with this clip of the great Michael Brooks, may he rest in power.
The discussion is about Hamas vs Israel at this moment. Bringing the past to justify the atrocities commited by Hamas and deflect the argument is whataboutism.
Idk if you actually understand what "whataboutism" really is. If I was engaging in whataboutism I'd be justifying what Hamas is doing since the IDF does it too.
Although Israeli civilians are suffering right now and being murdered in horrendous ways, the same shit happens all the time in gaza and people like you don't give a shit then.
You just can't answer honestly to the premise of the question and instead you have to strawman my argument implying that I'm justifying what hamas is doing.
If you actually tried to read my post you would understand that I made my position clear. What part of stating that I find the implication of being in favor of what happened in the past disgusting is ambiguous or need extra clarification?
Again, whataboutism to justify terrorist attacks. I will make my stance clear since you have some trouble understanding:
>Anyone that abuses or kills innocent people I consider abominations that should not be considered humans.
>Anyone that supports those kinds of actions are disgusting to me.
>Anytime one of those abominations die I feel relieved.
So, next time that you think of asking me what I think about what Hamas or IDF did that includes this situation you have your answer.
Tell me how I'm doing that? How exactly am I making light of the murders in that concert perpetrated by Hamas? Now you're implying I'm antiemetic and that I support the genocide of Jewish people. I have Jewish ancestry you yutz.
But to pretend that Israel is not the most powerful country in the middle east and holds all the cards in regard to what's gonna happen to the Palestinians from now on is beyond disingenuous. I don't know how many times I have to clarify that the killing of innocent civilians is unjustifiable NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. You're the one not acknowledging the reality on the ground, how the violence hasn't stopped but now that Israel is the one being attacked the mainstream gives a shit all of a sudden.
So stop lying and straw manning my arguments and pick up an English dictionary to try to understand when I very explicitly state "MURDERING CIVILIANS IS NEVER JUSTIFIED"
Did you get it? or do we have to go another round of you pretending that I'm justifying terrorist attacks in order to get it through you disingenuous thick skull?
And how do you evacuate Palestinians from Gaza, exactly?
They were told to evacuate before the bombings, but all the border crossings were conveniantly closed to them.
It's like a bad joke - "Ok, evacuate before we raze everything. Oh btw you actually can't evacuate anywhere, but we did our part by saying this PR shit. Back to bombing everything."
All this evacuation bs is a bad joke that sadly people around the world bought into. There is no possibility for evacuation out of Gaza when the area has been barred more tightly than ever, with worse restrictions on the people than before.
They keep talking about "why don't they just go through the Egypt route/border". Well they tried and Egypt tried sending through medicine and food...what these jackals do? They started bombing the area.
It's just as you said, just PR. They don't want anyone to evacuate, they just want to indiscriminately murder civilians and then act surprised when violence is returned in kind by hamas. Very low iq of them
They keep talking about "why don't they just go through the Egypt route/border". Well they tried and Egypt tried sending through medicine and food...what these jackals do? They started bombing the area.
It's just as you said, just PR. They don't want anyone to evacuate, they just want to indiscriminately murder civilians and then act surprised when violence is returned in kind by hamas. Very low iq of them
Imagine someone told you to leave everything behind cause they're about to level your homeland to the ground while actively taking measures so you can't leave. How can we justify bombings in Gaza when more that half the population are children? How are these children to blame for the actions of hamas?
That's the problem. People pretend they care about these children but the excuse always is "they're using their own people as meat-shields but we gotta kill these terrorist so what are you going to do..."
How can you call yourself civilized when you stoop down to you enemy's level? worse yet, how can you call yourself civilized and put a whole group of people through a similar situation that your OWN ancestors had to go through? This is not a religious issue, nor is it a Jewish vs Arab issue. Plenty of Jewish people condemn the apartheid state that Israel has created. You can't take the moral high-ground until you do the right thing and free these people from the horrible conditions you have imposed upon them.
And how do you evacuate Palestinians from Gaza, exactly?
They were told to evacuate before the bombings, but all the border crossings were conveniantly closed to them.
It's like a bad joke - "Ok, evacuate before we raze everything. Oh btw you actually can't evacuate anywhere, but we did our part by saying this PR shit. Back to bombing everything."
All this evacuation bs is a bad joke that sadly people around the world bought into. There is no possibility for evacuation out of Gaza when the area has been barred more tightly than ever, with worse restrictions on the people than before.
they give warnings and still bomb buildings they didn’t give warnings about
they also bombed the egypt border, they aren’t serious about not wanting civilians involved and their warnings do fuck all , gaza is blocked from all paths and so densely populated
Yes it is. Fascism is actually growing in Israel, and yes fascism is indeed a very specifical thing, that's why I call it that way. I'm not calling it fascism simply because those guys depict genocidal view but because those views are the result of a long time process happening under our own eyes with the extremist radical right in Israel, that same right that is right now in power. The dehumanization of the ennemy (not just the hate) is a part of that process.
This is an absolute need to recognize fascism when it rises as it will prevent us historical calamities.
Bunch of two faced aggressive idiots. Talking to the ones who's defending israel
No brain, just nothing but anger mixed with propaganda.
Guys, u cant explain them basics. Its pointless.
They will scream and defend israel (true terrorists)
I don't believe peace can come from either side, too much bad blood, justified or not.
Maybe an exterior power can force both side to calm down and the creation of a proper palestinian state... but realistically not going to happen.
On the fascism:
we still have our rights and the "judicial reform" stopped now bcs of the war and it probably will stop completely after and all the stuff passed will be rolled back.
I don't see how it is fascism if we still have liberty and fair elections. a democratic country can go do war somewhere and still be democratic.
Security in the area around Rafah is also of concern to Egypt because Sinai has been the site of an Islamist insurgency that flared a decade ago. Hamas, which has run the Gaza Strip since 2007, shares the Islamist ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood, a movement outlawed in Egypt.
Imagine someone told you to leave everything behind cause they're about to level your homeland to the ground while actively taking measures so you can't leave. How can we justify bombings in Gaza when more that half the population are children? How are these children to blame for the actions of hamas?
The Israeli government practise something called collective punishment. They always have done. If a Palestine commits a "crime", they won't just punish said individual, they will (and have) come after the persons family, close or distant. They would either level his/her home or they'd forcibly displace them and give it to settlers. Illegal in most countries and a war crime during war.
That's the problem. People pretend they care about these children but the excuse always is "they're using their own people as meat-shields but we gotta kill these terrorist so what are you going to do..."
They don't care about the children, I'll go as far as to say that they don't care about the Jewish kids either. It's always just an excuse to go tit for tat. But we all know that they don't no excuses for that, they've done it always. You see how some here (and other social media sites) were so desperate for the beheaded babies crime to be true? Where the only source of info came from this women that works for a thinktank, who are funded by an off-shoot branch of the CIA that are known for their propaganda and misinformation strategies, all the way back to the time of the Reagan administration. Then they'd use that as justification to go and murder Palestinian children.
How can you call yourself civilized when you stoop down to you enemy's level? worse yet, how can you call yourself civilized and put a whole group of people through a similar situation that your OWN ancestors had to go through? This is not a religious issue, nor is it a Jewish vs Arab issue. Plenty of Jewish people condemn the apartheid state that Israel has created. You can't take the moral high-ground until you do the right thing and free these people from the horrible conditions you have imposed upon them.
They've been below their level since the beginning, I'd say it's hamas who should be questioned about stooping down to their enemies level, but 39 years of state and settler murder and god knows what other atrocities, would make anyone do immoral things if you ask me.
It's not a religious issue for the Jews, at least not to most of them. This zionist movement might have started as one, but its clear as day just used now to destabilise the region. As Biden has repeatedly said, and this goes for most of his allies, "If Israel didn't exist then we'd invent one". Its just another American/nato base in foreign lands.
Easiest solution is to split the lands in 2 and share Jerusalem for now at least. Who starts problem after this, is the problem and whatever happens after that happens. But this nonsense right now can't continue. Especially this nonsense about people calling for the complete genocide of the Palestinians. It would be the single most idiotic thing that they could do and whatever friendly relations that they were looking for and even the ones they currently have would automatically disappear. But kids will be edgy I guess
If every time someone mention a atrocity committed by Hamas you try to make light of it by stating that Israel did something similar years, decades or months ago, you are making light of the murders and trying to justify terrorism. Worse yet, you implied multiple times that everyone that condemns Hamas somehow didn't gave a shit about Palestinians.
But to pretend that Israel is not the most powerful country in the middle east and holds all the cards in regard to what's gonna happen to the Palestinians from now on is beyond disingenuous.
I don't know how many times I have to clarify that the killing of innocent civilians is unjustifiable NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. You're the one not acknowledging the reality on the ground, how the violence hasn't stopped but now that Israel is the one being attacked the mainstream gives a shit all of a sudden.
So stop lying and straw manning my arguments and pick up an English dictionary to try to understand when I very explicitly state "MURDERING CIVILIANS IS NEVER JUSTIFIED"
Awesome. If you really think like that try to stop justifing the murders with excuses that they deserve it or support people that say that jews should stop defending themselves and let themselves be killed. If you really think it is never justified don't try to give justifications when people condemn Hamas for it.
Did you get it? or do we have to go another round of you pretending that I'm justifying terrorist attacks in order to get it through you disingenuous thick skull?
You are and was justifying terrorist attacks with the stupid excuse that the IDF did worse. If every comment of you is '' well, I hate civilian murdering but they asked for it because Israel did X, Y or Z'' don't blame people for taking for your word.
And how do you evacuate Palestinians from Gaza, exactly?
They were told to evacuate before the bombings, but all the border crossings were conveniantly closed to them.
It's like a bad joke - "Ok, evacuate before we raze everything. Oh btw you actually can't evacuate anywhere, but we did our part by saying this PR shit. Back to bombing everything."
All this evacuation bs is a bad joke that sadly people around the world bought into. There is no possibility for evacuation out of Gaza when the area has been barred more tightly than ever, with worse restrictions on the people than before.
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