Controversial General Political Discussion

[Bob74h]

Damn, you really are lost if you think that Donald Trump is against the status quo and against the removal of his priviledges...

i said he's as anti status quo as rich billionaire can get


how is he the status quo if the status quo removed his priviledges


status quo agasint status quo??





and cnn hated on him for years as did the entire democratic party


are democrats not status quo?

Science means "the additions of knowledges". Its a discipline that consist in creating knowledges, organizing them and make testable results.

Doing science =/= creating objectivity. Science is simply a discipline created to understand our reality better, its not perfect... Simply because we are not perfect.

so you suggest it's both objective knoweldge and it's also not




can you stay consistent for a single fucking second

To understand what I'm talking about, you need to be educated on social sciences another fields of scientific discipline. And right now, you are not.

you said it's biased and not objective


why should we take it seriously when even by your own quotes


it's pretty much proganda
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So while you are technically right that some assumptions has to be made in order to try to prove something, the science itself is completely neutral.

social science is leftist proganda



and im to reject it along with every other goverment instuition


news media


laws and legal system


and academia



all of it is a sham

 

[NAMELESS]

There's states rights too buckoo. They have a right to defend themselves, especially when the Federal Government isn't doing so.
You have your own ignorance, stop talking to me pissant.

That guy and his entire family are illegal immigrants themselves. Ignore this cocaine fuelled idiot.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

That guy and his entire family are illegal immigrants themselves. Ignore this cocaine fuelled idiot.

If you want to play this game I’m fine with it, insult me as much as you want. But don’t go after my family you virgin friendless loser. If anybody has cocaine all their way up his ass is you, you little wanna be favela gangster. Even if my parents were illegals, at least I can take solace in the fact that they love me, not like you, you unwanted fuck.

go fuel somebody else’s racist fantasies at least, that guy 100% looks down on you and what you are.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

so black homeless people are disabled and just are stupid


that's why their broke not generational weath or pressure on the lower class


just cause they are dumb



that's so progressive of you, to call homeless people retarded

I don’t know how to respond to this.

You are either arguing in bad faith or are legitimately illiterate

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

Last 3 pages are especially spicy

 

[Logiko]

I understand the humanitarian aspect of the argument

Obviously no, you don't.

because you are trying to prove a concept

Not because you are trying to prove a concept, because you are human and humans have natural and social biases.

But the results of research should and will always be neutral

It will never be. Even with the current scientific process. The act of researching more knowledge is by essence a moral act toward progress. The act of doing science will therefore NEVER be neutral. Neutrality in science simply can't exist.

And the process of peer review doesn't change that. Its simple logic. The maximum potential of a group can't exceed the potential of the best element of the group. Add that the fact that all human have natural and social biases and you end up with a discipline that can only minimize biases that we are able to minimize ourselves. And minimalizing biases is something that is extremelly hard to do.

Therefore we are doomned to see resurface biases not only in researches but also in the scientific process as well.

i said he's as anti status quo as rich billionaire can get

When a billionnaires do everything, even use the system to keep their status and fortune, they are the EMBODIEMENT of status co my guy.

You have everything backward. Its not because Donald Trump say that he is anti-system and anti woke that he is really against this system. In reality he isn't. He uses EACH inch of the system to do unethical things without being accounted for, he uses the system to promote his propaganda (yes, Fox news and social medias are part of the system mate), he uses the system to prevent himself from going to jail because of rape and sexual assault... Etc..

He is literally one of the billionnaire that promote capitalism and neoliberalism the MOST.

He IS the system. Its because of the system that he was elected in the first place mate.

The fact that progressist liberal and progressive media are going against a far right lunatic like him is just normal and ethical, its not the status co dude.

so you suggest it's both objective knoweldge and it's also not

No. Reread what I said.

can you stay consistent for a single fucking second

Can you learn to read please mate ?

you said it's biased and not objective


why should we take it seriously when even by your own quotes

The scientific process is the best methodology we have to understand our world so all scientific process must be taken seriously.

Now, Science being bias doesn't mean that it can't produce objective results. It just means that we need to be very careful about the science we are creating because biases can exist.

It doesn't negate the quality of science. It only reminds us that it is not a divine but only a human method.

social science is leftist proganda

Nop. It just happen that social sciences creates results that are leaning toward progressism and therefore that can be used by the left side of the political spectrum.

You can deny the legitimacy of this scientific discipline all you want, but it will make you an anti science guy.
Your choice.

and im to reject it along with every other goverment instuition

Then you can now call yourself "the anti science guy".

Sorry.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

there are finite number of job openings and finite number of businnesses

What happens when the immigrants start businesses and create new jobs?

 

[MangoSenpai]

Obviously no, you don't.

Why do you say that? If you think I have no empathy for these people then you are wrong, but I am sorry to tell you but you're an idealist, not a realist.

If we lived in a perfect world then sure, but this is not a perfect world.

Take a look at Sweden, once one of the safest countries in Europe, now it's ripe with terror attacks, gang violence and much more. All because they take in more people than they have capacity to handle.

To me you sound well and truly arrogant.
You seem to believe that you are better than everyone else, so of course you should share some of your greatness with others.

Not because you are trying to prove a concept, because you are human and humans have natural and social biases.

Yes, and what is your point exactly. Every human has biases, it is unavoidable.
But you're spinning science to be political when it is not. How can researching quantum physics be political.
They are trying to, as you say, expand knowledge. Sure if you're going to be extremely pedantic, it is towards progress, but progress has absolutely nothing to do with politics.

Why does progress has to be linked to politics? Nothing stays the same forever, progress is inevitable.

It will never be. Even with the current scientific process. The act of researching more knowledge is by essence a moral act toward progress. The act of doing science will therefore NEVER be neutral. Neutrality in science simply can't exist.

You're a lost cause man. Is science perfect? No.
However, it doesn't matter.
Facts do not care about your feelings.

Even if you think you understand the result, and something happens that makes the current accepted science be questioned, it does NOT change the fact that there's no inherent agenda to expanding knowledge.

If we are talking about social sciences, you have some modicum of a point, but you're presenting it as if the act of expanding knowledge is political. It is a mind numbingly weak argument.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Why do you say that? If you think I have no empathy for these people then you are wrong, but I am sorry to tell you but you're an idealist, not a realist.

If we lived in a perfect world then sure, but this is not a perfect world.

Take a look at Sweden, once one of the safest countries in Europe, now it's ripe with terror attacks, gang violence and much more. All because they take in more people than they have capacity to handle.

To me you sound well and truly arrogant.
You seem to believe that you are better than everyone else, so of course you should share some of your greatness with others.
Yes, and what is your point exactly. Every human has biases, it is unavoidable.
But you're spinning science to be political when it is not. How can researching quantum physics be political.
They are trying to, as you say, expand knowledge. Sure if you're going to be extremely pedantic, it is towards progress, but progress has absolutely nothing to do with politics.

Why does progress has to be linked to politics? Nothing stays the same forever, progress is inevitable.
You're a lost cause man. Is science perfect? No.
However, it doesn't matter.
Facts do not care about your feelings.

Even if you think you understand the result, and something happens that makes the current accepted science be questioned, it does NOT change the fact that there's no inherent agenda to expanding knowledge.

If we are talking about social sciences, you have some modicum of a point, but you're presenting it as if the act of expanding knowledge is political. It is a mind numbingly weak argument.

The question about ilegal immigration, especially in America, is a fair one. The problem comes from political clout. Both parties peddle propaganda and false promises and don’t resolve the core issues at hand since it is a useful political tool in order to win elections.

in this specific case, I think it is disingenuous to imply that the federal government is trying to flood the country with illegals when the feds have been enacting the same policies for the last 16 years regardless of who the president is. The issue here is not about ilegals per se, but of the political stunt Greg abbot is performing in order to score political points with a base that has shown time and time again to have an empathy and racism problem. How hard is it to agree that trapping poor migrants with razor wire inside bodies of water is cruel and inhumane?

also, you could consider this treason l, since the Supreme Court has order the state of Texas to move aside and let border patrol do their jobs.

 

[MangoSenpai]

The question about ilegal immigration, especially in America, is a fair one. The problem comes from political clout. Both parties peddle propaganda and false promises and don’t resolve the core issues at hand since it is a useful political tool in order to win elections.

in this specific case, I think it is disingenuous to imply that the federal government is trying to flood the country with illegals when the feds have been enacting the same policies for the last 16 years regardless of who the president is. The issue here is not about ilegals per se, but of the political stunt Greg abbot is performing in order to score political points with a base that has shown time and time again to have an empathy and racism problem. How hard is it to agree that trapping poor migrants with razor wire inside bodies of water is cruel and inhumane?

also, you could consider this treason l, since the Supreme Court has order the state of Texas to move aside and let border patrol do their jobs.

I'm not denying that it is inhumane or cruel, and I have full respect for your PoV. However my point is that at some stage people become desperate, they will do anything that is necessary.

I will say however that I am not knowledgeable about this specific incident, but it is always worth asking the question why are we at this stage. What caused this to happen.

it’s easy to question the outcome, but there is alway a reason for things happening

 

[Toby D. Dog]

I'm not denying that it is inhumane or cruel, and I have full respect for your PoV. However my point is that at some stage people become desperate, they will do anything that is necessary.

I will say however that I am not knowledgeable about this specific incident, but it is always worth asking the question why are we at this stage. What caused this to happen.

it’s easy to question the outcome, but there is alway a reason for things happening

All I want is real immigration reform. I don’t have to agree with every single policy we pass regarding the border. But at least let’s be consistent when it comes to law and order and try to be as humane as possible.

 

[Zolo]

The question about ilegal immigration, especially in America, is a fair one. The problem comes from political clout. Both parties peddle propaganda and false promises and don’t resolve the core issues at hand since it is a useful political tool in order to win elections.

in this specific case, I think it is disingenuous to imply that the federal government is trying to flood the country with illegals when the feds have been enacting the same policies for the last 16 years regardless of who the president is. The issue here is not about ilegals per se, but of the political stunt Greg abbot is performing in order to score political points with a base that has shown time and time again to have an empathy and racism problem. How hard is it to agree that trapping poor migrants with razor wire inside bodies of water is cruel and inhumane?

also, you could consider this treason l, since the Supreme Court has order the state of Texas to move aside and let border patrol do their jobs.

one traped person in razer wire will scare the others. dont cross the border, its that simple

 

[Toby D. Dog]

I'm not denying that it is inhumane or cruel, and I have full respect for your PoV. However my point is that at some stage people become desperate, they will do anything that is necessary.

I will say however that I am not knowledgeable about this specific incident, but it is always worth asking the question why are we at this stage. What caused this to happen.

it’s easy to question the outcome, but there is alway a reason for things happening

Btw asking questions is respectable. We can disagree, but I’m glad there’s at least one user here that acknowledges the humanity in these people. It’s a good start.

 

[Zolo]

Btw asking questions is respectable. We can disagree, but I’m glad there’s at least one user here that acknowledges the humanity in these people. It’s a good start.

I looked the journey they going to. Like Darien gap... on train tops etc... Still no symphathy... Dems promoted there country as all in for immigrants so ofcourse people got there hopes up and decided to travel here...
Invest into screening people and there backrounds first or dont allow anyone at all. unless you love fentanyl. sucks americans cant get normal drugs from afganistan anymore

 

[Logiko]

If you think I have no empathy for these people then you are wrong

No I'm not. If you had that much empathy, REAL empathy for those people, you would not say that

They are breaking the law to get into the country, so why then should the law apply to someone who is 1, not a citizen and 2, disregarding the law of the country to begin with?

You would milite for those people to be welcomed in your country, even if they are breaking these "laws". Not all laws are just.

All because they take in more people than they have capacity to handle.

This is not an excuse. Because some people do bad things doesn't mean that we must shut the gate to people at death's door.

Furthermore, the rise in crime is not related to immigration but bad and poorly thoughts economic politics. People don't do crimes because they comes from another country, people do crimes because they have no other ways to live in their situations.

To me you sound well and truly arrogant.

This feeling of arrogance is the reflect of your apathy.

Yes, and what is your point exactly. Every human has biases, it is unavoidable.

The point is that science is not divine. It does not exist without human intervention. Its a human discipline and because we are full of biases, science can't be perfect and neutral.

But you're spinning science to be political when it is not

I did not say that science was political but yes the act of doing science is. I said that science was not neutral. Meaning that we put values in sciences while doing sciences. values but also unintended biases.

And because the scientific process can be bias, we must keep it as unbias and as ethical as possible. This is why we need to keep feeding the scientific process with ethical values and therefore politic.

Science without ethic and therefore progressive political values is chaos but science with bad politic is the apocalypse.

How can researching quantum physics be political.

Well.. those biases mostly apply to social sciences as they are analysing and trying to understand human behaviors. But I'm sure we can find field of hard science where the importance of those value apply.

Can you tell me : What is stopping scientists from atomizing the entierity of a country to test the effect of the atomic bomb on local climate ?

it is towards progress, but progress has absolutely nothing to do with politics.

In a perfect world indeed. Progress should not be politic ("politic" being the process of the clash of values), it should just be the logical thing to do and everyone would agree with progress.. but we are not in a perfect world.

progress is inevitable.

No its not. I do believe that progress will eventually lead all the way.. but that's pure faith. What you are doing here is confusing change with progress.

Change is inevitable... but progress is not. Progress is a choice.

Progress can be stopped and progress can be reversed.

And science... can disappear.

Is science perfect? No.
However, it doesn't matter.
Facts do not care about your feelings.

I'm one of the biggest science fan of this forum. You are not telling me anything new.

Even if you think you understand the result, and something happens that makes the current accepted science be questioned, it does NOT change the fact that there's no inherent agenda to expanding knowledge.

Yes.. there is. The act of doing science is a moral act toward progress and therefore a political act.
Its perfectly political and the agenda is progress. But sometimes... sometimes the agenda can change.

In fact something I learned about the current scientific process is that science might be researched by people who only seek progress, but the agenda behind it - those who pay the bills - have often other interests. Sadly, science is a now more than a naive run toward progress, it has become a business.

This is another reason why we must be VERY careful about our biases and the biases of those who make science.

However my point is that at some stage people become desperate, they will do anything that is necessary

That's why we must accept them. Because they will come either way even if they have to die before that.

one traped person in razer wire will scare the others. dont cross the border, its that simple

I think you are underestimating th will of people in distress.

 

[Zolo]

I think you are underestimating th will of people in distress.

yeah, you right razer wire is too soft

 

[Zenos7]

so supposely women and black people are so opressed in america


and yet instead of helping them


you liberals opt to help out foreigners


so much for attempting to stay consistent

Helping women/black peeps and helping foreigners arent mutually exclusive. You can do both lol
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That's how it works mates.


Any scientist epistemologist will confirm you that the science process inherently comes with biases. You cannot escape it. Simply because this is a human action and we are full of biases.

I already proved you guys in late december with clear researched papers that there was sexist bias in the science process and science access. You choosed to ignore that. But I'm someone that doesn't give up, so here is another article from a completely different field of science explaining why bias in science is still a thing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1761670/

Doing science =/= creating objectivity. Science is simply a discipline created to understand our reality better, its not perfect... Simply because we are not perfect.



Damn, you really are lost if you think that Donald Trump is against the status quo and against the removal of his priviledges...



Science care.

And you are disregarding it.



Then you are anti science. Simple as that.





Wrong.

Science means "the additions of knowledges". Its a discipline that consist in creating knowledges, organizing them and make testable results.



Indeed, you just need to be educated on astronomy. Which is only one discipline of Science.
To understand what I'm talking about, you need to be educated on social sciences another fields of scientific discipline. And right now, you are not.



When you live in cities where you can barely buy food and water and when you or your children risk to be killed, executed or kidnapped everyday... maybe you might wanna consider moving... even illegally if you have no choice.

With that kind of ignorant behavior, don't expect someone to welcome you one day if you have no other choices but to cross a border illegally for you and your family to survive a crisis.


I don't seem, maybe, but I am. And you would be wise to consider listening to me when I talk about colonialism, racism and progressive issues.



Everyday. I did not wait for you.

Now, you still haven't replied to me: What are you considering "racist stereotype"s in the populations of the Shandians and the Torino Kingdom ?

The link isnt really helping your point, like, at all.

If we destroyed all scientific knowledge and started over, we would eventually get to the same conclusions. Gravitational constant wont change with a researcher that has different political bias.

Certain things not being researched as much is not the same as research conclusions differing depending on the researchers bias.

Antilogic and antiscience

 

[Zolo]

Helping women/black peeps and helping foreigners arent mutually exclusive. You can do both lol
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The link isnt really helping your point, like, at all.

If we destroyed all scientific knowledge and started over, we would eventually get to the same conclusions. Gravitational constant wont change with a researcher that has different political bias.

Certain things not being researched as much is not the same as research conclusions differing depending on the researchers bias.

Antilogic and antiscience

Maybe we would even get better gravity explanation. Becouse current one needs fictional dark matter to work on large objects like galaxies and fails at small like electrons etc.

 

[Logiko]

The link isnt really helping your point, like, at all.

Hm, yes it

It literally shows you an example were science as scientific process can be bias. But hey... this is not the first time one of you guys are ignoring scientific researches

we would eventually get to the same conclusions.

1. Not really, conclusions are also contextual. We don't arrive to specific conclusions because they are meant to be accessed, we are making them because we have all the tools to create them or the right situations were presented to us. And scientific knowledge is often - if not always - relying on previous works. Which means that even if technically there should be similar results in the very far end of the line (at least for hard science, its not that easy for soft sciences) what happen in between to the results and the method could be very different.

2. The point I'm making is not about the conclusions, its about the bias that can prevent us from creating good conclusions. By saying that science is just as bias as the best human making it, doesn't mean that we can't create good results. It means that we needs to be careful about the process and therefore countering those bias with the scientific method but also human and therefore ethical values.

Gravitational constant wont change with a researcher that has different political bias.

You should know that the way we see the universe through our knowledge and science might be completely determined by the way we create this knowledge. Its like language. The way we speak influence the way we think.

Things get tricky when we imagine the universe without an anthropomorphic lens.

Certain things not being researched as much is not the same as research conclusions differing depending on the researchers bias.

Antilogic and antiscience

Think again.

 

[MangoSenpai]

This is not an excuse. Because some people do bad things doesn't mean that we must shut the gate to people at death's door.

Furthermore, the rise in crime is not related to immigration but bad and poorly thoughts economic politics. People don't do crimes because they comes from another country, people do crimes because they have no other ways to live in their situations.

Read your response to this a couple more times, you are in fact proving my point.
This proves to me you’re not interested at all in challenging yourself through discours, but rather you’re trying to spin everything to fit your view of the world.

You are 100% correct, it is not BECAUSE they are from other countries, it is because THE COUNTRY DOES NOT HAVE CAPACITY to deal with them. So you are in fact proving my point.