Controversial Naruto is so clear of One Piece its not even close
- Thread starter BoaHancocksHusband
- Start date
The Ninja jesus reveal wasn't till the tail end though, and even then had multiple people helping out Naruto
Naruto didn't crash and burn. Kishimoto just wished to milk the franchise. Despite, that its still a better rewatch up to the Kakashi vs Obito fight aka 85% of the series, than OP can ever dream of being.
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It's my opinion. It started with Naruto being the underdog/untalented ninja who wanted to become Hokage. Then Shippuden was all about getting Sasuke back. Then it turns out Naruto was the reincarnation of the sage's son and we all know how that went.
What I mean is that Kishi struggled to keep some of his thematic messaging consistent. Giving too much importance to the Sasuke plotline and sacrificing his plot toward the end for the sake of Boruto.
What I mean is that Kishi struggled to keep some of his thematic messaging consistent. Giving too much importance to the Sasuke plotline and sacrificing his plot toward the end for the sake of Boruto.
Yeah, Naruto was underdog but the nine tails inside him also implied that he had the potential to do crazy stuff later on. The whole "beast inside the MC" was popularized by Naruto.
And yeah, he became Hokage after fighting Sasuke at the end.
Hagoromo's son Indra and Ashura were fighting against each other. But in case of Naruto, he befriended Sasuke and convinced him to join the fight against their enemies. Naruto and Sasuke, both of them were reincarnation of Ashura and Indra respectively.
As you pointed out, it was not an easy process. Naruto had to go through alot to convince Sasuke.
This just proves that Kishimoto was consistent and planned it all along.
There was nothing wrong with thematic messaging.
Some decisions he made towards the end are debatable, but he had a solid idea of what he was doing.
What? You remember that Naruto was Ashura's reincarnation, but have a problem with Sasuke being Indra's reincarnation?
Sasuke completed his revenge against his brother. Narratively, he had no purpose after that. But Itachi played a crucial role in changing Sasuke's decision.
How can you say it was for Boruto? All of the decisions Kishimoto made were consistent throughout the story.
Madara was done dirty, yeah. But he was also using Hashirama cells. White and Black zetsu were there in the story, they were not created few chapters before the end.
It was also showed how Madara was tricked by the ancient script.
There can be things that you personally dont like, but the story was consistent throughout its serialization.
And yeah, he became Hokage after fighting Sasuke at the end.
Hagoromo's son Indra and Ashura were fighting against each other. But in case of Naruto, he befriended Sasuke and convinced him to join the fight against their enemies. Naruto and Sasuke, both of them were reincarnation of Ashura and Indra respectively.
As you pointed out, it was not an easy process. Naruto had to go through alot to convince Sasuke.
This just proves that Kishimoto was consistent and planned it all along.
There was nothing wrong with thematic messaging.
Some decisions he made towards the end are debatable, but he had a solid idea of what he was doing.
What? You remember that Naruto was Ashura's reincarnation, but have a problem with Sasuke being Indra's reincarnation?
Sasuke completed his revenge against his brother. Narratively, he had no purpose after that. But Itachi played a crucial role in changing Sasuke's decision.
How can you say it was for Boruto? All of the decisions Kishimoto made were consistent throughout the story.
Madara was done dirty, yeah. But he was also using Hashirama cells. White and Black zetsu were there in the story, they were not created few chapters before the end.
It was also showed how Madara was tricked by the ancient script.
There can be things that you personally dont like, but the story was consistent throughout its serialization.
They’re both really great shonen but they both shot themselves in the foot.
Luffy - was meant to be a small boy from a small village who ate a weak DF who wants to attain an impossible dream - turns out he’s the chosen one, his DF isn’t weak in fact it’s super rare, he’s from a rare clan, there’s some hard work but a lot of his “w’s” can be attributed to his DF.
Naruto - was meant to be a isolated boy from a small village no one cared about and was hated a no body who strived to show the village he's not only strong but fighting against destiny - turns out again he's the chosen one from a special clan, who saved the village since birth, and was destined to be in a position to save the world.
It's funny cause Kishimoto and Oda made an attempt to replicate Toriyama but I think they massively missed the point of Goku compared the other 2 (Naruto & Luffy).
Luffy - was meant to be a small boy from a small village who ate a weak DF who wants to attain an impossible dream - turns out he’s the chosen one, his DF isn’t weak in fact it’s super rare, he’s from a rare clan, there’s some hard work but a lot of his “w’s” can be attributed to his DF.
Naruto - was meant to be a isolated boy from a small village no one cared about and was hated a no body who strived to show the village he's not only strong but fighting against destiny - turns out again he's the chosen one from a special clan, who saved the village since birth, and was destined to be in a position to save the world.
It's funny cause Kishimoto and Oda made an attempt to replicate Toriyama but I think they massively missed the point of Goku compared the other 2 (Naruto & Luffy).
1. Early Naruto was about how one’s birth doesn’t define them just for the end of Naruto to be about Naruto and Sasuke being born special and reincarnations of two super ninjas from the past. Not to mention how Neji was literally right since he was born to serve as a shield for the main hyuga branch and that’s literally what he died as. It’s a massive betrayal to the original themes.
2. Sasukes entire character got thrown away and retconned multiple times throughout the story until the only thing kishimoto had that remained was his edginess:
I will kill itachi and restore my clan -> I will kill old people from the leaf then destroy the leaf -> I will kill Naruto and become Hokage. Ever since Itachis retcon Sasukes character didn’t have a clear path and kishimoto just made him do edgy stuff and randomly give him new goals.
3. The entire jutsu power system changed because by the end of the series hand signs which were a common activation method was completely replaced by huge chakra gundams to the point where the story looked more like a traditional mecha than a Naruto story.
2. Sasukes entire character got thrown away and retconned multiple times throughout the story until the only thing kishimoto had that remained was his edginess:
I will kill itachi and restore my clan -> I will kill old people from the leaf then destroy the leaf -> I will kill Naruto and become Hokage. Ever since Itachis retcon Sasukes character didn’t have a clear path and kishimoto just made him do edgy stuff and randomly give him new goals.
3. The entire jutsu power system changed because by the end of the series hand signs which were a common activation method was completely replaced by huge chakra gundams to the point where the story looked more like a traditional mecha than a Naruto story.
Strong argument
I will just say we cant ignore the hardships and trauma that jinchurikis went through. Naruto's own mother was a victim. But it was through sacrifices and efforts of less privileged that Naruto got 9 Tails' power.
Mid argument
Sasuke changed because of Naruto and Itachi's efforts. A good chunk of the story was spent on convincing Sasuke. While it may seem incoherent, the author's efforts show otherwise. How can you say it was retconned when the author actively engaged other characters to change Sasuke and bring him to their side?
Weak argument
Power creep, even if I dont like it, is a part of shonen mangas.
Look at One Piece and flashy Haki beams now vs how Luffy fought pre TS.
I will just say we cant ignore the hardships and trauma that jinchurikis went through. Naruto's own mother was a victim. But it was through sacrifices and efforts of less privileged that Naruto got 9 Tails' power.
Mid argument
Sasuke changed because of Naruto and Itachi's efforts. A good chunk of the story was spent on convincing Sasuke. While it may seem incoherent, the author's efforts show otherwise. How can you say it was retconned when the author actively engaged other characters to change Sasuke and bring him to their side?
Weak argument
Power creep, even if I dont like it, is a part of shonen mangas.
Look at One Piece and flashy Haki beams now vs how Luffy fought pre TS.