Rules Kingdom General Discussion

[SakazOuki]

Two things we can learn from this sole panel.

1st. Either Juko'ou or Sento'un gave Kanmei an L or Ls. Since the other dude is too weak, and Man'U never faced Kanmei. It can only be those two.
2nd. Chu has/had other beasts like Kanmei.

Welcome back
Chu has other beasts like Kanmei, but it’s hard to imagine there was someone stronger than him, he’s THE giant of Chu. This man as a deputy general crushed the physically strongest Qin6 general
I understand Hara might do it to add some spice, but it will be hard to believe at the same time
Only Man’U out of the Juuko four can stand with Kanmei

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

Two things we can learn from this sole panel.

1st. Either Juko'ou or Sento'un gave Kanmei an L or Ls. Since the other dude is too weak, and Man'U never faced Kanmei. It can only be those two.
2nd. Chu has/had other beasts like Kanmei.

Is obviously the strongest state has many GG on Kanmei's level, since Zhao has many too.

Post automatically merged: Dec 15, 2024

That's why GG Shin will lost to Chu, Kouen and many GG on his level, will face Moubu,GG Shin and Ousen.

 

[Xione]

I understand Hara might do it to add some spice, but it will be hard to believe at the same time

Well he's also talking about people from years ago, not exactly right now. Some of them might not have been much known at the time, while others got killed or sent south.

I think it's fairly easy to explain with an ongoing war with the Baiyue people. Similar to how there was somebody like Bananji up in the North completely unknown, while you had dudes like Kashibou/Renpa/Gyou'un/other martial dudes as well. Or the likes of Jiaga/Kanasaro/ and to a large extent even Shibashou.

And this is with the Xiongnu sharing borders with the Qin/Zhao/Yan. Whereas Chu has a border the size of all 3 of those states combined, that they share with the Baiyue people, people as formidable as the Xiongnu (if not more dependent on how Hara wants to take it).

Spoiler

So it really wouldn't take much for Hara to pull even 10+ people stronger than Kanmei (exaggerating the number for a general point), there's enough material/excuse to do it, all dependent on how he writes the Baiyue people.

 

[Cichy]

1st. Either Juko'ou or Sento'un gave Kanmei an L or Ls.

Don't think so.

It would contradict the statement about Kanmei being undefeated pre Coalition War.

 

[Xione]

Don't think so.

It would contradict the statement about Kanmei being undefeated pre Coalition War.

I mean yea, it does. But what's the issue with that? Character statements are made based on the information known to said character. And that's assuming they count repelling as a defeat.

But it's factual that Kanmei was repelled by atleast 1 of the 3, outside of Man'U.

 

[SakazOuki]

Ousen saving Kankoku pass is a feat never discussed
Here Ousen is thinking about the reason why the coalition army suddenly decided to go all out after days of attrition warfare
And he figures it out immediately @God Buggy

 

[God Buggy]

Ousen saving Kankoku pass is a feat never discussed
Here Ousen is thinking about the reason why the coalition army suddenly decided to go all out after days of attrition warfare
And he figures it out immediately @God Buggy

I don't know how Hara will manage to make EoS Shin above EoS Ousen, lol. Ousen should be as close as undefeatable by any other warring state general at that stage.

 

[SakazOuki]

I don't know how Hara will manage to make EoS Shin above EoS Ousen, lol. Ousen should be as close as undefeatable by any other warring state general at that stage.

I don’t think Shin > Ousen or Riboku will ever be a thing, there’s a limit to what his instincts and physical powers can do, they can never replace strategical talent. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t beat them in a war, but there’s no direct superiority. In fact I think EoS Shin would still lose 9/10 times to this caliber of strategical generals if the war is involving armies by the hundreds of thousands, and that’s okay Shin was never meant to be that guy, he wants to be greatest general through his achievements and personal strength, he was never going to be the most brilliant.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I don’t think Shin > Ousen or Riboku will ever be a thing, there’s a limit to what his instincts and physical powers can do, they can never replace strategical talent. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t beat them in a war, but there’s no direct superiority. In fact I think EoS Shin would still lose 9/10 times to this caliber of strategical generals if the war is involving armies by the hundreds of thousands, and that’s okay Shin was never meant to be that guy, he wants to be greatest general through his achievements and personal strength, he was never going to be the most brilliant.

I would have hoped for him to be number one of all time but it doesn't seem the story is going this way.
If he ends up in the top 5, it'll be a big achievements already.

 

[Rumble]

Engage, you cunts.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/battle-of-hango-redux.63146/

 

[God Buggy]

I don’t think Shin > Ousen or Riboku will ever be a thing, there’s a limit to what his instincts and physical powers can do, they can never replace strategical talent. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t beat them in a war, but there’s no direct superiority. In fact I think EoS Shin would still lose 9/10 times to this caliber of strategical generals if the war is involving armies by the hundreds of thousands, and that’s okay Shin was never meant to be that guy, he wants to be greatest general through his achievements and personal strength, he was never going to be the most brilliant.

Back to this

 

[Rumble]

I don’t think Shin > Ousen or Riboku will ever be a thing

I've been saying this for years.

The best you can hope for that is Shin enter the class of general (i.e. Great General of the Heavens) where he can potentially defeat any other general in battle.

He will never be the clear cut best. That's not going to happen. Hara introduced the best generals in the series within the first ~200 chapters (Ou Ki, RBK, Ren Pa and Ou Sen) and he hasn't deviated from that since.

It'll be interesting how he'll insert Kou En in the mix. I think how Kou En is handled could tell us a lot about how Hara envisions Shin down the stretch.

 

[Xione]

@SakazOuki @Bullet @Rumble @Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @Luffy is the mc @TheKnightOfTheSea @Yo Tan Wa @Blackbeard @Ninjashadow0209 @Cichy @RayanOO

If being fully honest after thinking on this for a bit now, I think I've been a bit disingenuous when it comes to Riboku, I don't think Riboku has established himself as the GOAT battlefield general nor will be able to... mainly because all he's really ever done is defense on home terrain with numerical advantages.

- The Xiongnu invasion, but we don't know anything about the quality of their forces.
- While Bayou was an invasion, it also happened against a conscript Qin army, where SHK's failure in intelligence networking was the key reason for the loss. It's not really the same as Ousen and co doing an invasion, since these guys don't have the control over their state like Riboku does.
- The other invasion was against Gekishin who at best is Kouchou level.
- Then there's the Coalition, which ended up flopping, with Qin not losing much at all.


It would be hard for me to go Riboku top 1 all time, when I don't see him doing invasions against superior numbers on newer terrains. Similarly I don't hold much weight in Hakuki's records when he's only fighting wars where he knows he can win. While others are then taking on battles in his place where it's not a guaranteed win., thus won't have a perfect record.


Share y'alls opinion on this matter and also on the value + difficulty of invasions vs defense.

 

[SakazOuki]

@SakazOuki @Bullet @Rumble @Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @Luffy is the mc @TheKnightOfTheSea @Yo Tan Wa @Blackbeard @Ninjashadow0209 @Cichy @RayanOO

If being fully honest after thinking on this for a bit now, I think I've been a bit disingenuous when it comes to Riboku, I don't think Riboku has established himself as the GOAT battlefield general nor will be able to... mainly because all he's really ever done is defense on home terrain with numerical advantages.

- The Xiongnu invasion, but we don't know anything about the quality of their forces.
- While Bayou was an invasion, it also happened against a conscript Qin army, where SHK's failure in intelligence networking was the key reason for the loss. It's not really the same as Ousen and co doing an invasion, since these guys don't have the control over their state like Riboku does.
- The other invasion was against Gekishin who at best is Kouchou level.
- Then there's the Coalition, which ended up flopping, with Qin not losing much at all.


It would be hard for me to go Riboku top 1 all time, when I don't see him doing invasions against superior numbers on newer terrains. Similarly I don't hold much weight in Hakuki's records when he's only fighting wars where he knows he can win. While others are then taking on battles in his place where it's not a guaranteed win., thus won't have a perfect record.


Share y'alls opinion on this matter and also on the value + difficulty of invasions vs defense.

I've always thought having an undisputed top 1 is childish thinking, that's why I always group the established 4 goats Hakuki Renpa Riboku & Ousen, alongside Gakuki and near fictional characters like Ouki etc
Every war is unique in its setup, subordinate generals involved, numerical gaps, terrain etc

However nothing wrong with saying someone is smarter or more likely than not to win against anyone etc

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

@SakazOuki @Bullet @Rumble @Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @Luffy is the mc @TheKnightOfTheSea @Yo Tan Wa @Blackbeard @Ninjashadow0209 @Cichy @RayanOO

If being fully honest after thinking on this for a bit now, I think I've been a bit disingenuous when it comes to Riboku, I don't think Riboku has established himself as the GOAT battlefield general nor will be able to... mainly because all he's really ever done is defense on home terrain with numerical advantages.

- The Xiongnu invasion, but we don't know anything about the quality of their forces.
- While Bayou was an invasion, it also happened against a conscript Qin army, where SHK's failure in intelligence networking was the key reason for the loss. It's not really the same as Ousen and co doing an invasion, since these guys don't have the control over their state like Riboku does.
- The other invasion was against Gekishin who at best is Kouchou level.
- Then there's the Coalition, which ended up flopping, with Qin not losing much at all.


It would be hard for me to go Riboku top 1 all time, when I don't see him doing invasions against superior numbers on newer terrains. Similarly I don't hold much weight in Hakuki's records when he's only fighting wars where he knows he can win. While others are then taking on battles in his place where it's not a guaranteed win., thus won't have a perfect record.


Share y'alls opinion on this matter and also on the value + difficulty of invasions vs defense.

Honestly my opinion on Riboku is pretty much just based on the portrayal that he has received by other commanders since the full context of the achievements of Gakuki and especially Hakuki is not known yet.

As for the numbers shit, while Riboku has had the numerical advantage on the battlefield itself, he has actually been at the numerical disadvantage in the context of the larger wars taking place. So I actually count this as a disadvantage for Riboku that he has worked around via his overall strategic planning and how he allocates his numbers.

 

[Bullet]

Well he's not quite "established" as the goat but he's the most deserving of that title in this current generation
While we might not have seen Xiongnu in action we have decent hype for them and know that they are higher quality than even YTW's armies and Riboku not only defended against them while no one else could he went on to absolutely demolish a 90k army of them which by plain standards is worth like a 200k man army. Doesn't matter if we saw it or not we know it was an overwhelming victory.
Defeated Ouki at Bayou, while it's true Ouki had numerical disadvantage, didn't have a well trained army etc it wasn't simply a victory through numbers but actually a trap that was set by Riboku, you can't take away from his victory by claiming lack of knowledge on Qin's part when information manipulation is part of Riboku's warfare.
Regardless of how pathetic Geki Shin looked, he was a famed GG that battled some of the goats and had 3gh hype so obviously he's above scrubs like Kochou but anyway this victory for Riboku was yet again an easy victory with no problems.
Coalition loss can't be blamed on Riboku
A lot of the victories for Qin were achieved against non Zhao armies led by commanders acting on their own
Sorry if i don't attack Riboku for Rinbunkun inviting everyone to his HQ or Kanmei losing to Moubu
One of the few smart moves on the coalition side was from Riboku who actually managed to move an army of 10s of thousands behind the enemy without anyone noticing and the loss came about from a king who acted above what a 6gg would be able to pull off and an ally army that no one knew about.
At shukai he bests Ousen at every turn like taking out Makou, devising the plan to take out Akou and then gives the strategy that put Ouhon in a coma and the only reason he lost was because of the new gen growing during the battle and overcoming his pawns not because the enemy commander could outplay him.
At gian he caused the number advantage by crippling the Ousen army and the reinforcement so the Kanki fanboys can't just cry about his number advantage when he wouldn't have that number advantage if it wasn't because of his tactics.

 

[Cichy]

It would be hard for me to go Riboku top 1 all time, when I don't see him doing invasions against superior numbers on newer terrains.

His war against Xiongnu was literally that.

200k Xiongnu vs 130k Zhao and the battle happened on Xiongnu territory. This was apparently overwhelming victory where Xiongnu lost around half their forces.

Xiongnu were presented as a threat to every northern Kingdom, since Zhao, Qin and Yan united in their atempt to build great wall on their borders.

 

[Xione]

His war against Xiongnu was literally that.

200k Xiongnu vs 130k Zhao and the battle happened on Xiongnu territory. This was apparently overwhelming victory where Xiongnu lost around half their forces.

Xiongnu were presented as a threat to every northern Kingdom, since Zhao, Qin and Yan united in their atempt to build great wall on their borders.

Sure but how do you scale that while being ignorant of the make up of the army for the Xiongnu? Was it even their strongest army? How do they strategically compare to Riboku? How does that specific general leading that specific army compare to other generals of the plains? As they also have wars with other mountain tribes + Yan. It's a vague war that doesn't really tell us much of Riboku's personal role and contributions as well.

Qin had an army consisting of 200k, which the Seika folks annihilated a good portion of. But we know that Qin army was nowhere near as capable as an army of 100k led by somebody like Ousen would be. You get the point.

That's why I personally can't use that war when comparing him to the other top dogs.

 

[Cichy]

That's why I personally can't use that war when comparing him to the other top dogs.

Isn't that just the same issue regarding old generation? Their achievements are mostly rumours and legends without any details.

As for Riboku at least we have multiple onscreen battles to see his capabilities.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I pointed this out on TKC, but I’ll bring it here as well

So Renpa is obviously covered in battle scars:

Now I think it would be lame as fuck if the only people to ever scar Renpa were like, Ouki and no one else lmfao

We know that Rinko gave Ouki one of his many battle scars,

So what if we found out that Yoko Yoko was a warrior who gave Renpa one of his many battle scars?

I mean why not right? Rakuakan and Hakuokoku repelled Renpa, why can’t a monster like Yoko Yoko give him one of his many scars?

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