Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1157 Spoilers Discussion

[TheAncientCenturion]

Kakazu must have heard about Hashirama beating Madara with the nine tails and was totally willing to fight him still.

 

[SakazOuki]

Kakashi looked like a child next to Kakuzu

 

[Wuuuke]

It's just a shame Tobi was planned to be Madara at this point in time and not Obito.

To me it's almost more impressive in a way that Kishimoto was writing a lot of Naruto relatively on the fly and he was still able to create so many compelling plot twists and callbacks

Post automatically merged: Aug 12, 2025

Kisame is the guy Obito sends to beat Bee half to death then convincingly lose to spy on them, don't kid yourself.

Yeah, Sage Mode is impressive especially when you master it. Jiraiya wouldn't be able to summon the elder toads against Itachi. He's far too quick of a fighter.

Itachi is still far stronger than Jiraiya even in sage mode anyway

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

Panel? I've never seen Harald as a Devil

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/o...Impaled.png/revision/latest?cb=20250622150618​

 

[soupongo]

Right, that´s what I said lmao. His village entrusted him to kill the fucking first hokage and he made it out alive lmao

Also ngl, the fact that we didn´t get Kakazu and Hidan flashbacks is criminal. I didn´t know he got his hearts from his villages elders, and we never were told wtf Jashin is.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

To me it's almost more impressive in a way that Kishimoto was writing a lot of Naruto relatively on the fly and he was still able to create so many compelling plot twists and callbacks

He's got a talent for improvising, not at Toriyama's level but still pretty decent.

I always like the Haku/Obito call back, that was great.

 

[ZenZu]

Kisame's power level fluctuates quite a lot. I agree that while in base he's not as strong as people like Sasori, depending on how much chakra he can absorb with Samehada he can get disgustingly strong like we saw against Naruto and Guy

I also don't have a high opinion of Kakuzu's strength relative to the other Akatsuki but lol

If I had to rank them It'd probably be

Obito
Pain
Itachi
Sasori
Orochimaru (could maybe be higher in his Hydra form)
Deidara
Kisame (could arguably go as high as 2nd or 3rd depending on how much chakra he absorbs when fused with samehada)
Kakuzu
Hidan
Konan
Zetsu

I'm just basing it off portrayal not feats, Sasori is far lower if we go by feats. Kisame has better feats. Just the akatsuki dynamics is what helps Sasori's case.

The way Itachi treats Kisame, is similar to how Sasori treats Deidara or Kakuzu treats Hidan. All 2 man cells are expected to produce the same results so they wouldn't give Itachi who is already a top 2 member, the next strongest member right behind him and cheap out on the other cells. It doesn't work like that. They're supposed to be balanced to a certain extent.

Also interactions with similar characters. Itachi told Kisame to lay off Kakashi cause he will get hurt. Gai who is portrayed as Kakashi's equal, proved this. Kakuzu was portrayed as a monster next to a stronger Kakashi, Kisame was always portrayed within reach of Gai and Kakashi even as far back as part 1.

 

[MarineHQ]

They may have not been the strongest, but the Zombie duo were entertaining as hell. Loved Hidan fights.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Right, that´s what I said lmao. His village entrusted him to kill the fucking first hokage and he made it out alive lmao

Also ngl, the fact that we didn´t get Kakazu and Hidan flashbacks is criminal. I didn´t know he got his hearts from his villages elders, and we never were told wtf Jashin is.

Yeah he was entrusted to assassinate Hashirama and failed and barely escaped with his life, you're making it out to be Garp v. Roger over in your previous posts.

 

[Wuuuke]

He was created to show off the elemental chakra system but Kishi got bored of that almost immediately after this arc, sans a few callbacks down the road.

Edo Hiruzen outdoing Kakuzu in the War really pulls it all home, considering Orochimaru did not think highly of this vers. of Hiruzen initially.

I mean part of that is just Orochimaru being Orochimaru but another part of it is the fact that despite Edo Tensei only reviving the dead at *close* to their original strength, for Hiruzen it actually made him much stronger than we saw in part 1 because he had no stamina/chakra problems and it allowed him to fight at 100% the whole time

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Anyway casual reminder that Ryokugyu neg diffed this version of Whitebeard

 

[thisnewtechnique]

Orochimaru temporarily gained the upper hand against Jiraiya and Tsunade in a 1 vs 2 with his arms sealed. Meanwhile base Sharingan Itachi treated Orchimaru like a toddler.

Jiraiya believed besting Hanzou (Mifune's peer) was an impossible feat. He just ain't on Itachi's level. Not even close.

Jiraiya could win, but it would be an ultra extreme diff

 

[soupongo]

Yeah he was entrusted to assassinate Hashirama and failed and barely escaped with his life, you're making it out to be Garp v. Roger over in your previous posts.

The standing shoulders to shoulders thing is a joke, but the fact that he was entrusted to do that, and did survive is proof he is actually pretty strong. Though maybe Hashirama wasn´t supposed to be nonsesncially strong yet

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

To me it's almost more impressive in a way that Kishimoto was writing a lot of Naruto relatively on the fly and he was still able to create so many compelling plot twists and callbacks

Post automatically merged: Aug 12, 2025

Itachi is still far stronger than Jiraiya even in sage mode anyway

That's a nice way to say "He pulled most of it out of his ass".

 

[Wuuuke]

I'm just basing it off portrayal not feats, Sasori is far lower if we go by feats. Kisame has better feats. Just the akatsuki dynamics is what helps Sasori's case.

The way Itachi treats Kisame, is similar to how Sasori treats Deidara or Kakuzu treats Hidan. All 2 man cells are expected to produce the same results so they wouldn't give Itachi who is already a top 3 member a top 4 member right behind him and cheap out on the other cells. It doesn't work like that. They're supposed to be balanced to a certain extent.

Also interactions with similar characters. Itachi told Kisame to lay off Kakashi cause he will get hurt. Gai who is portrayed as Kakashi's equal, proved this. Kakuzu was portrayed as a monster next to a stronger Kakashi, Kisame was always portrayed within reach of Gai and Kakashi even as far back as part 1.

Sasori's feats are like nonexistent because of the unique circumstances in the main fight he has but we can get a good idea of how strong he is solely based off the fact of how strong the Third Kazekage is and the fact that he should be stronger than prime Chiyo who was able to fight against Hanzo many times

And his hax are pretty gross too, if you're not Tsunade or Sakura and you get hit with his poison it's basically GG

Post automatically merged: Aug 12, 2025

The standing shoulders to shoulders thing is a joke, but the fact that he was entrusted to do that, and did survive is proof he is actually pretty strong. Though maybe Hashirama wasn´t supposed to be nonsesncially strong yet

Hashirama obviously just took mercy on the poor fool lol

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

The way Itachi treats Kisame, is similar to how Sasori treats Deidara or Kakuzu treats Hidan. All 2 man cells are expected to produce the same results so they wouldn't give Itachi who is already a top 3 member a top 4 member right behind him and cheap out on the other cells. It doesn't work like that. They're supposed to be balanced to a certain extent.

There is no rule about them being balanced per team lol. That's headcanon, they were looking for replacements for Orochimaru and found Deidara, who is in no way equal to Orochimaru. That team is immediately signifciantly weaker than before.

Hidan was only paired with Kakuzu because he couldn't die, etc.

Their entire dynamic is functioning teams that can capture a Jinchuuriki, not that each team has to roughly equal the same level. That's a you invention.

Kakuzu was portrayed as a monster next to a stronger Kakashi, Kisame was always portrayed within reach of Gai and Kakashi even as far back as part 1.

Kakashi was stronger than Kakuzu. If Naruto didn't show up, he's confident he'd be in the hospital for using Kamui. So he's 100% confident he's beating Kakuzu.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I mean part of that is just Orochimaru being Orochimaru but another part of it is the fact that despite Edo Tensei only reviving the dead at *close* to their original strength, for Hiruzen it actually made him much stronger than we saw in part 1 because he had no stamina/chakra problems and it allowed him to fight at 100% the whole time

I never got that part for Orochimaru's Edo Tensei. As far as we're aware, Kabuto's came back at 100%.

 

[soupongo]

Sasori's feats are like nonexistent because of the unique circumstances in the main fight he has but we can get a good idea of how strong he is solely based off the fact of how strong the Third Kazekage is and the fact that he should be stronger than prime Chiyo who was able to fight against Hanzo many times

And his hax are pretty gross too, if you're not Tsunade or Sakura and you get hit with his poison it's basically GG

Post automatically merged: Aug 12, 2025

Hashirama obviously just took mercy on the poor fool lol

Idk, his development was about the idea that he would be willing to kill for his village eventually.

I guess it depends on if Kakazu attacked Hashirama before or after he ¨killed Madara¨

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

The standing shoulders to shoulders thing is a joke, but the fact that he was entrusted to do that, and did survive is proof he is actually pretty strong. Though maybe Hashirama wasn´t supposed to be nonsesncially strong yet

He's standard or slightly less than standard for Kage rank shinobi. He barely survives and escapes assassinating Hashirama, goes on to make a career as a bounty hunter, maybe possibly killed or was there for the death of the Godl & Silver brothers.

 

[Dragon777]

Anyway casual reminder that Ryokugyu neg diffed this version of Whitebeard

No wonder he has a black blade on top of a Logia.