Questions & Mysteries “Ryuma slayed niddhog/God of war” theory officially debunked

[kekaro]

Fenaker of the thousand Ls arrived to contribute nothing need to call sentinel

Sure: I didn't say it "fits perfectly." I said it would make perfect sense given the reference material, which is obviously not 1:1 as I've never claimed. The difference is that I don't have a narrative. I'm not saying that this is what happened but could have happened. You see, like 777, I used the word "if."

I was quoting a post saying it wouldn't make sense "if" Oda went that way, because that would mean some other swordsman did the work of making the sword black while Greenbull (whose background story didn't include any mention of swordsmanship) just happened to steal it. I don't have my own narrative on who made it black, because this is actually irrelevant to me. Greenbull is in fact irrelevant to the conversation of Ryuma vs Elbaf, just a tangent I was willing to entertain because he didn't throw a tantrum and rage quit his way out of discussion. Aramaki had been on panel fighting throughout Wano and never once used his sword. That was both the end of him as a swordsman in the story, and now in my posts as a subject. A new chapter of discussion will definitely open up as soon as he gets any sword feat or even some lip service, but thanks for helping me close this one.

This theory was debunked the moment it was made clear that ryumor must be in New Ringo cause the climate was mentioned specifically mentioned the temperature was there the reason that he has even flesh as we see him in the manga, a body decomposes under 10 years btw. especially with the headcanon they dug him up (a nogo with how religion in wano is potrayed) and carried for hom months around

After that came a wall of cope not limited but including fenaker saying lik has a record of Ws despite getting every single event wrong since wano, old wano being built prior or by settlers or ryumor corpses being moved in Zoro scans and my favorites: time travel and oda might retcon it

Now you wrangling out that you didn't even read the link you posted saying "eh actually I said it could have happened, not it did so the conjecture I made in my post that has 0 basis was good actually"

Absolute clown show once again by the champions of zkk

 

[Fn Lucci]

This theory was debunked the moment it was made clear that ryumor must be in New Ringo cause the climate was mentioned specifically mentioned the temperature was there the reason that he has even flesh as we see him in the manga, a body decomposes under 10 years btw. especially with the headcanon they dug him up (a nogo with how religion in wano is potrayed) and carried for hom months around

For one thing, the idea that Oda is airtight with his dialogue is very selective. Ryuma's zombie first appeared in Thriller Bark, not long before the infamous "retcon" where Sanji mentions having researched the fruit Absalom ate despite not being aware of the curse Luffy had back in Baratie. Would Oda really bind himself to a throwaway line from almost 20 years ago? Do you think it's hard to find examples where he explicitly didn't do that?

I searched the latest Viz printings. Sanji doesn't mention knowing exactly what the curse is, so that's either a fix made by Viz or fans were mistaken to have thought it was a plot hole in the first place. I read both volumes 47 and 48, and there is no mention of corpse preservation due to being stored in Ringo. Keep in mind that even though he's much younger, John was also extremely well preserved, so I'm not sure how committed Oda would be to that Ringo idea.

Where did you find that line about Ringo?

 

[kekaro]

For one thing, the idea that Oda is airtight with his dialogue is very selective. Ryuma's zombie first appeared in Thriller Bark, not long before the infamous "retcon" where Sanji mentions having researched the fruit Absalom ate despite not being aware of the curse Luffy had back in Baratie. Would Oda really bind himself to a throwaway line from almost 20 years ago? Do you think it's hard to find examples where he explicitly didn't do that?

Yes, given how involved and dumb the premise to begin with is. You cant claim there is some insane effort and retcons and setup oda doing for this headcanon and than say "but actually, he didnt plan anything"

I searched the latest Viz printings. Sanji doesn't mention knowing exactly what the curse is, so that's either a fix made by Viz or fans were mistaken to have thought it was a plot hole in the first place. I read both volumes 47 and 48, and there is no mention of corpse preservation due to being stored in Ringo. Keep in mind that even though he's much younger, John was also extremely well preserved, so I'm not sure how committed Oda would be to that Ringo idea.

Where did you find that line about Ringo?

The name in japanese is literal eternal/everpreversing grave

 

[Fn Lucci]

Yes, given how involved and dumb the premise to begin with is. You cant claim there is some insane effort and retcons and setup oda doing for this headcanon and than say "but actually, he didnt plan anything"

The name in japanese is literal eternal/everpreversing grave

We have already discussed the obvious idea that they wouldn't just leave Ryuma at the bottom of old Wano and so it is a general statement from someone uninvolved with the actual corpse. Y'all are using correlation to imply causation. Glad that this was cleared up.

 

[kekaro]

We have already discussed the obvious idea that they wouldn't just leave Ryuma at the bottom of old Wano and so it is a general statement from someone uninvolved with the actual corpse. Y'all are using correlation to imply causation. Glad that this was cleared up.

And i already adressed that obviously being wrong

 

[Shimotsuki Fenaker]

Fenaker of the thousand Ls arrived to contribute nothing need to call sentinel

This scholar talking big while his ass has shown embrassing shits lmao.

Dont forget what sword scholars are spamming since 3 years

"if its important oda will show it at full reveal"

No sword shown

not mentioned at the first reveal and title card

" Sword scholars said Xebec is a swordsman yet no sword is shown "
After the reveal of Xebec's swordsman statut, Bro started talking back like he never said this retarded shit while agreeing with @MarineHQ of the Ls :

 

[kekaro]

This scholar talking big while his ass has shown embrassing shits lmao.

" Sword scholars said Xebec is a swordsman yet no sword is shown "
After the reveal of Xebec's swordsman statut, Bro started talking back like he never said this retarded shit while agreeing with @MarineHQ of the Ls :

Are you crux new scholar? no matter how much you quote it you WILL read what it says there "if its important oda will show it at full reveal" is a quote by swords scholars coping about aramakis BBB, oda didnt show xebecs sword at his reveal so according to the clowns its not important to him

 

[Shimotsuki Fenaker]

Are you crux new scholar? no matter how much you quote it you WILL read what it says there "if its important oda will show it at full reveal" is a quote by swords scholars coping about aramakis BBB, oda didnt show xebecs sword at his reveal so according to the clowns its not important to him

You :
" No sword shown "

" not mentioned at the first reveal and title card "

Scholar tried to lecture me while he attempted to prove that Xebec isn't a swordsman because his sword wasn't shown or mentioned in his first reveal or title card only for the next chapter to completely debunk his claims.
Now he's trying to backpedal his L lmao.
Bro is trying his hardest to deny accepting his L, it just shows your typical extremist fanboy behavior.

 

[kekaro]

To the topic after another failed scholar theory my blud is crying about:
If you bury a corpse in normal soil (the peasants of wano have no modern caskets, even in modern day, mind you) it will ultra rapidly decompose. If you then dig it up and expose it to the air, it will even be more fucked, which will be than (again, headcanon btw.) transported into a fictional graveyard infrastructure in open weather for months that doesn't exist (@Dragon777 and @MonochromeYoru already debunked that there was any infrastructure before the sinking of wano)


Ignoring the fact that wano religion is clearly based on Shintoism and the fuckery that will be caused with this headcanon exhuming Ryumas grave to cart him for months atop of a mountain with a frozen field that has preversing effect on corpses they didn't even know yet


Like i so far the arguments for this theory were:

- Oda will retcon 8 different things, because this is really important him, but at the same time paid 0 attention to the details nor gave a single fuck about ryuma since wano (including not showing any grave visit)
- Toki used her time travel fruit to send Ryuma and/or his corpse in time forward because....reasons?
- Ignoring that the place shown in Monsters is clearly meant to be new wano, and coping about the fact that it cant be because it looks like a western town, which i also debunked as it a literal gag tier insertion into the manga, like Gil Bastar in his orginal one shot WANTED! having full automatic modern revolvers which also dont exist in one piece
- My little pony corpse travels where the corpses condition would worsen 1000x

so yes, @TheD. debunked this shit and any cope regarding it was debunked in the first page

 

[HA001]

To the topic after another failed scholar theory my blud is crying about:
If you bury a corpse in normal soil (the peasants of wano have no modern caskets, even in modern day, mind you) it will ultra rapidly decompose. If you then dig it up and expose it to the air, it will even be more fucked, which will be than (again, headcanon btw.) transported into a fictional graveyard infrastructure in open weather for months that doesn't exist (@Dragon777 and @MonochromeYoru already debunked that there was any infrastructure before the sinking of wano)


Ignoring the fact that wano religion is clearly based on Shintoism and the fuckery that will be caused with this headcanon exhuming Ryumas grave to cart him for months atop of a mountain with a frozen field that has preversing effect on corpses they didn't even know yet


Like i so far the arguments for this theory were:

- Oda will retcon 8 different things, because this is really important him, but at the same time paid 0 attention to the details nor gave a single fuck about ryuma since wano (including not showing any grave visit)
- Toki used her time travel fruit to send Ryuma and/or his corpse in time forward because....reasons?
- Ignoring that the place shown in Monsters is clearly meant to be new wano, and coping about the fact that it cant be because it looks like a western town, which i also debunked as it a literal gag tier insertion into the manga, like Gil Bastar in his orginal one shot WANTED! having full automatic modern revolvers which also dont exist in one piece
- My little pony corpse travels where the corpses condition would worsen 1000x

so yes, @TheD. debunked this shit and any cope regarding it was debunked in the first page

Already debunked this.
Monsters isnt set on wano
Oda said monsters is CANON
Ryuma in monsters is a wandering swordsmen where people DONT KNOW HIM
Everyone on wano would know him

 

[kekaro]

Already debunked this.
Monsters isnt set on wano
Oda said monsters is CANON
Ryuma in monsters is a wandering swordsmen where people DONT KNOW HIM
Everyone on wano would know him

Gil bastar is also now canon oda said it in the sbs, its an easter egg like ryumor to a nod to his previous oneshots,

Again you mad coping if you think oda set up wano 40 years ago for ryumor who is not even a footnote in the manga


Start gasing yano, the better wano oda dropped with stronger and tougher fighters

 

[Shimotsuki Fenaker]

To the topic after another failed scholar theory my blud is crying about:

" Failed scholar theory "

The quoted Scholar :
" No sword shown "
" not mentioned at the first reveal and title card "

The Introduction had the narrator hyping his swordsmanship.

 

[AL sama]

 

[Chiji_]

Doesn’t necessarily have to be the god of war, Ryuma could have slain the original Nidhogg before it became a devil fruit.

 

[TheD.]

Doesn’t necessarily have to be the god of war, Ryuma could have slain the original Nidhogg before it became a devil fruit.

That would be impossible…. lol

 

[Dragon777]

It makes perfect sense, actually, if it relates to the reference. The Harada character had to steal it from a dead body while pretending to pray over him

Yeah, because, as said, he didn't have one; not because he goes around stealing other swords.

Anyway, as said, If he has a BB, it's because he forged it. If he's not a good swordsman, it doesn't even make sense for Oda to give him a sword like that, let alone create a random samurai just for Greenbull to have stolen a sword that he doesn't even use properly.

It's frankly dishonest to consider him a swordsman above Roger and way more far fetched than a Wano samurai beating an Elbaf Giant.

Since we are using Ronin Gai as a reference:

1-Set in the end of 19th century, where the Meiji Restoration just started, the hero, Aramaki Gennai (Karasawa Toshiaki) does not act so much like a "hero". He's a drunkard ronin (masterless samurai) who loves to lazy around in the house all day, and depend on his girlfriend for money. He doesn't care at all about anything or what happen in the world. Rumours has it that he has an unbelievably excellent skill of swordplay, but no one has ever seen him demonstrating it.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/aramakis-sad-story.55726/

etc.

There's no reason to believe that they gave the country the same name but decided that the counties within had to be different. If they were building a whole new Wano then obviously, building a new grave also wouldn't be difficult. They made a shrine for Shusui, a national treasure. Why would they let it drown?

Because it was explicitly addressed that:

1) he was born there;
2) having been buried there, his body was especially well conserved.

All points in the same direction.

The god of war is not mentioned in the Harley

The God of War is among the most prominent figures of the Harely:

 

[Fn Lucci]

Because it was explicitly addressed that:

1) he was born there;
2) having been buried there, his body was especially well conserved.

All points in the same direction.

But I asked why they would leave his legacy at the bottom of Old Wano if it was there?

His burial in the current Wano wasn't explicitly addressed. Hiyori had never seen his corpse and didn't mention it specifically. Those at Thriller Bark said nothing about the condition of his corpse and we already saw the likes of Captain John actually in better shape.

The God of War is among the most prominent figures of the Harely:

Yes, Nidhoggr was featured in the drawing, but we don't know what role the god of war played because he was not mentioned in the text. I'm not saying that Ryuma was mentioned or even drawn (that stand-in is kind of generic for samurai) but trying to rule out and significance by way of the extremely vague Harley isn't possible right now. There are a lot of very important figures with no representation at all as far as we can confirm. I personally don't think Emeth holds more weight than Roger or Shanks.

 

[Dragon777]

But I asked why they would leave his legacy at the bottom of Old Wano if it was there?

His burial in the current Wano wasn't explicitly addressed. Hiyori had never seen his corpse and didn't mention it specifically. Those at Thriller Bark said nothing about the condition of his corpse and we already saw the likes of Captain John actually in better shape.

Captain John died only 20-30 years ago; Ryuma 400 ago at least.

It was pretty implied, considering again we know Ryuma was born in Ringo.

Yes, Nidhoggr was featured in the drawing, but we don't know what role the god of war played because he was not mentioned in the text. I'm not saying that Ryuma was mentioned or even drawn (that stand-in is kind of generic for samurai) but trying to rule out and significance by way of the extremely vague Harley isn't possible right now. There are a lot of very important figures with no representation at all as far as we can confirm. I personally don't think Emeth holds more weight than Roger or Shanks.

Let's say this: people speculated what these big figures were; now we know what that one was.

There isn't though another big, distinctive figure. Unless we get another Harley-like text and still we are implying retcons of some kind.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Captain John died only 20-30 years ago; Ryuma 400 ago at least.

His corpse was dug out less than 30 years ago. It was preserved by the ice, right? Isn't that the whole point of what you're saying?

Let's say this: people speculated what these big figures were; now we know what that one was.

There isn't though another big, distinctive figure. Unless we get another Harley-like text and still we are implying retcons of some kind.

Big relates to the physical size of Nidhoggr. You can't say that this size relates to significance while Nika is so small.

 

[Mathias]

How de we know the era of Ryuma ? Lots of uncertainty there.