My only complaint is how Oda is going too far to make him the morally righteous admiral instead of grey. What was your issue with him?
Back in Dressrosa, Fujitora had to be subtle about working against the WG’s best interests and had to use plausible deniability to excuse not helping Doffy and not capturing Luffy.

In the Reverie, Fujitora is just freeing slaves in broad daylight in the middle of the Holy Land. One of the worst examples of Oda disrespecting the intelligence of his audience tbh. @Fujishiro
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
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To be fair it seems like Kuzan already fills that morally grey role. Could say the same for Kizaru, although Kizaru is just a plain piece of shit imo
Egghead going forward I can see that, most of the series he's just the admiral clocking in and out though. Devoid of any personal input or philosophy.
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
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Back in Dressrosa, Fujitora had to be subtle about working against the WG’s best interests and had to use plausible deniability to excuse not helping Doffy and not capturing Luffy.

In the Reverie, Fujitora is just freeing slaves in broad daylight in the middle of the Holy Land. One of the worst examples of Oda disrespecting the intelligence of his audience tbh. @Fujishiro
Meh I understand the complaint but Oda's been dumbing down the story a lot since Dressrosa. I can't hold it against the characters too much.
 
Egghead going forward I can see that, most of the series he's just the admiral clocking in and out though. Devoid of any personal input or philosophy.
Yeah he's the salaryman Admiral while Kuzan was the good but indecisive/lazy one. Not a bad guy at all but one who turns a blind eye.

After all his theme is the Three Monkeys: Do no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. And for Kizaru that means trying to focus away from the bad side of the WG and just doing his job.

His turning point is EH, just like Kuzan's was Ohara. I expect Sakazuki will have his turning point arc next.
 
Yeah he's the salaryman Admiral while Kuzan was the good but indecisive/lazy one. Not a bad guy at all but one who turns a blind eye.

After all his theme is the Three Monkeys: Do no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. And for Kizaru that means trying to focus away from the bad side of the WG and just doing his job.

His turning point is EH, just like Kuzan's was Ohara. I expect Sakazuki will have his turning point arc next.
Turning point is not an easy term to throw for a 60 year old admiral, he felt bad sure but he still carried out the most difficult of tasks. Even for Kuzan, while he lost the “fiery justice”, he was still ready to murder Garp’s grandson at one point, among the other countless unknown admiral duties carried out throughout the years. So for Kizaru I doubt this changes much about him, it simply highlights his personality and how he shifts characters between Borsalino and Kizaru
 
Turning point is not an easy term to throw for a 60 year old admiral, he felt bad sure but he still carried out the most difficult of tasks. Even for Kuzan, while he lost the “fiery justice”, he was still ready to murder Garp’s grandson at one point, among the other countless unknown admiral duties carried out throughout the years. So for Kizaru I doubt this changes much about him, it simply highlights his personality and how he shifts characters between Borsalino and Kizaru
You don't think this will result in any change/character development for him?

I guess turning point is iffy but I doubt he will stay the same personally.....I think something is up, Oda clearly has the OG trio showing doubt throughout EH, and it seems logical that he might do the C3 pattern by giving each Admiral a breaking point.

You also have to recall that Kizaru only slayed VP after Saturn severely wounded him. He also gave up the instant he had an excuse which probably saved Bonney and Sento + left Sento alone to escape in 1124.

Kuzan also was pretty lenient towards Luffy mostly. Hell Garp himself only wavered at the very end when Luffy was charging at him. So I don't Kuzan did more than follow his example.
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
You don't think this will result in any change/character development for him?

I guess turning point is iffy but I doubt he will stay the same personally.....I think something is up, Oda clearly has the OG trio showing doubt throughout EH, and it seems logical that he might do the C3 pattern by giving each Admiral a breaking point.

You also have to recall that Kizaru only slayed VP after Saturn severely wounded him. He also gave up the instant he had an excuse which probably saved Bonney and Sento + left Sento alone to escape in 1124.

Kuzan also was pretty lenient towards Luffy mostly. Hell Garp himself only wavered at the very end when Luffy was charging at him. So I don't Kuzan did more than follow his example.
Kuzan did murder his bestfriend who was against a genocide though.

Oda recently retconned the death but Kuzan had no idea he survived nor was that his intention.
 
Kuzan did murder his bestfriend who was against a genocide though.

Oda recently retconned the death but Kuzan had no idea he survived nor was that his intention.
Forgot about that
:josad:
What's Kuzan's deal actually? He seems like a really indecisive one. Outside of hating Akainu and liking Garp I can't really get a grasp on his idealogy.

Like Kizaru is more straightforward, he's a salaryman who likes his little bro and hates pirates, Kuzan is like...respects Garp, thinks Akainu is bad for killing scholars but tried to take out Saul himself?
 
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