Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1185 Spoilers Discussion
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Itachi’s strength got blatantly retconned though, so why can’t his partner’s? I’m sure Kishimoto did originally intend for Itachi to be more relative to the Sannin back when he was writing Part 1, but he was blatantly retconned to be much stronger than them when Kishimoto had him bully Orochimaru on multiple occasions.
Anyways, the main point of my original post is that Jiraiya fans are fucking delusional for thinking that he’s actually equal to Itachi just because of that one statement that got retconned. I only mentioned Kisame because some of them go as far as to interpret that statement to mean that Jiraiya could tie Itachi and Kisame in a 2v1
Anyways, the main point of my original post is that Jiraiya fans are fucking delusional for thinking that he’s actually equal to Itachi just because of that one statement that got retconned. I only mentioned Kisame because some of them go as far as to interpret that statement to mean that Jiraiya could tie Itachi and Kisame in a 2v1
Because Itachi is a lot more important story wise and gets new narratives in part 2(especially in relation to him sealing Orochimaru with the totsuka blade, Izanami, stopping Obito from invading Konoha, being revealed to be a double agent) etc etc. You're essentially arguing that Kisame was retconned because, as an Akatsuki member, we see him hunt a tailed beast. Like, that's his job bro.
The statement is obviously iffy, but I don't think you can get around that it clearly implies that Kisame did not believe he would win. As long as it is pretty much directly told to the reader, there's not really much anyone can do about that. Mangaka usually don't make obvious PL statements like that.
Gai is high Kage level with the gates(correct me if I'm wrong and you mean base gai) and we know how big of a powerup that is from part 1 itself. We just didn't see him go all out in part 1. And yes, it's dumb that he didn't use his powers during Konoha crush, but it was established that he and Lee are unconventional like that
The statement is obviously iffy, but I don't think you can get around that it clearly implies that Kisame did not believe he would win. As long as it is pretty much directly told to the reader, there's not really much anyone can do about that. Mangaka usually don't make obvious PL statements like that.
Gai is high Kage level with the gates(correct me if I'm wrong and you mean base gai) and we know how big of a powerup that is from part 1 itself. We just didn't see him go all out in part 1. And yes, it's dumb that he didn't use his powers during Konoha crush, but it was established that he and Lee are unconventional like that
Itachi was alrwady one of the most narratively important characters in part 1 though? He was established to be the main foe for the deuteragonist all the way back in Land of Waves, and had top 5 portrayal in part 1 (only below the Kyuubi and 4th Hokage in portrayal, and maybe Prime Hiruzen if you want to wank him).
Nothing in part 1 really suggested that 7th Gate Gai would be as strong as he ended up being. It was actually implied that he’d need the 8th Gate to surpass the Kage, which quickly became yet another retcon in part 2
Nothing in part 1 really suggested that 7th Gate Gai would be as strong as he ended up being. It was actually implied that he’d need the 8th Gate to surpass the Kage, which quickly became yet another retcon in part 2
Mihawk fans look forward
There is apparently more and more links to her
There is apparently more and more links to her
Cuz at Elbaf it just need one stab to Broggy and the DR spread like a virus.
Don't think Any Gorosei or God Knight would be there cuz Ohara is even more troublesome than Esperia ( since the problem are they can't pay taxes ) and they still sitting on their couch lol.
I think you could argue that Sasuke stock generally raises in part 2, and Itachi benefits from that, but you could reasonably disagree with that. I don't necessarily think he was retconned, but there's arguments, and he has new plotlines to support that I guess(post part 2, you have an entire Itachi vs Minato debate where people believe Itachi is stronger, it's a shift from part 1).
I don't....know about that? Is 7th gate guy clearly above a Kage? In overall combat, probably not imo. Though I don't really have a great memory of his pre 8 gate feats, but I think you could say it's the 8 gate that removes any ambiguity here.
I don't....know about that? Is 7th gate guy clearly above a Kage? In overall combat, probably not imo. Though I don't really have a great memory of his pre 8 gate feats, but I think you could say it's the 8 gate that removes any ambiguity here.
If this flashback serves a larger lore or plot purpose, helps us better understand Imu, or even sets up Brook's final major fight and defining moment in the series, then I'm fine with it. But if it's only meant to force an emotional connection between Shuri/Gunko and the readers before the upcoming scenes with her and Brook in Elbaph, then it's just not worth it. A montage of feel good and tear jerking moments isn't enough to manipulate the audience into caring. Especially not when it's holding up the biggest encounter in this 30 year series.
Kakashi stated in part 1 that "The state where all gates have been opened is called the Eight Inner Gates Formation... Anyone who achieves this state will, however briefly, be granted strength that exceeds even the Hokage's."
Implying that the 8th Gate is necessary to surpass the Hokage, with the 7th Gate maybe being enough to rival the Hokage. 7th Gate Gai's strength just got retconned in Part 2 to be at the pinnacle of Kage level. Which isn't surprising since his rival, Kakashi, also got his strength retconned to be much higher. Part 1 Kakashi could only do 4 Raikiri's before running out of chakra
Implying that the 8th Gate is necessary to surpass the Hokage, with the 7th Gate maybe being enough to rival the Hokage. 7th Gate Gai's strength just got retconned in Part 2 to be at the pinnacle of Kage level. Which isn't surprising since his rival, Kakashi, also got his strength retconned to be much higher. Part 1 Kakashi could only do 4 Raikiri's before running out of chakra
Idk, why you think this is wrong? It sounds about what we see in the story? 8 Gate is clearly above the Hokages, while the 7th Hokage is about the same level.
Kakashi just gets stronger though, he's in like his 20s, and it's like the corny shonen trope that he wants to live again so he gets stronger. I don't think it's a retcon
Kakashi just gets stronger though, he's in like his 20s, and it's like the corny shonen trope that he wants to live again so he gets stronger. I don't think it's a retcon
@soupongo The same Kakashi who stated he could only do 4 Raikiri's also casually created like 100 Shadow Clones despite already being low on chakra, part 1 scaling was all over the place.
7th Gate Gai in part 2 was clearly way stronger than Old Hiruzen (and Prime Hiruzen if we're being honest), but Kakashi only felt comfortable placing 8th Gate Gai above the Hokage.
7th Gate Gai in part 2 was clearly way stronger than Old Hiruzen (and Prime Hiruzen if we're being honest), but Kakashi only felt comfortable placing 8th Gate Gai above the Hokage.
If Candel is dead, then she can't be Mihawk's mom, maybe can't even be a HK or previous WSS depending on how she was killed...
Also seriously, NOW?!? we acknowledge that water damages instruments but we've never had issues with all the swords and humidity and ocean salt, etc. There are better options to explain how a musical kingdom could be destroyed but "water damage" sure feels cheap this late in the story when it's never been a issue before
Also seriously, NOW?!? we acknowledge that water damages instruments but we've never had issues with all the swords and humidity and ocean salt, etc. There are better options to explain how a musical kingdom could be destroyed but "water damage" sure feels cheap this late in the story when it's never been a issue before
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