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Versus Battle Uchiha Itachi vs Uchiha Obito
- Thread starter Light D Lamperouge
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In my opinion that's way too abstract a fight to make a detailed argument about.
I expect Itachi to have fundamental knowledge of Tobi's Kamui, similar to Konan, but he apparently didn't know of his Izanagi, hence the failure of the Amaterasu trap. Tobi on the other hand should have pretty extensive knowledge of Itachi's abilities, with only Yata, Totsuka and Izanami being questionable.
Hype is kind of disregardable, here. From what I recall, Tobi had an incredibly high opinion of Itachi and knew how skilled he was, while I think it was implied Itachi was weary of Tobi and avoided facing him directly, but that was under the impression of him being Madara, which implies a lot more strength than swirly-mask Tobi actually had.
Argument for Tobi:
Tobi's onyl way to win is by absorbing Itachi. Amaterasu is an effective counter to any absorption attempts, but only as long as Izanagi isn't active. As soon as that's the case, Tobi could try a brute-strategy similar to Danzo, tanking any damage (even Amaterasu) just to be able to absorb Itachi. But then there's Susanoo's instant activation speed, and being crushed to the floor would definitely stop the absorption process. Tobi's absorption was hinted to also work instantly or at least accelerated after he failed absorbing Minato, but I have yet to see proof of that. So Tobi's best shot would be similar to Danzo's, trying to wear Itachi out by forcing him to use straineous MS-techniques. I don't consider Tobi's small-scale usage of Mokuton any threat, considering Itachi's speed, agility and Susanoo.
Argument for Itachi:
It's vice versa, Itachi's only way of harming Tobi is Amaterasu, but that only until Izanagi is used. He'd have to try and wear Danzo's Izanagi out, which I cannot see happening with only MS techniques having the potential to actually harm him. Itachi has, however, a pretty good shot at defeating Tobi with Izanami. Once he's in Izanami-trance, Itachi is free to murder him any way he wishes. If Tobi opted for a brute Izanagi strategy, forcing Itachi to continuously use Amaterasu, I could very well see the latter recreating a physical sensation twice and thus activating Izanami without seeming suspicious. It's Itachi, after all.
A case could be made for either one, but since Izanami was created solely to punish Izanagi-users, I'll follow this satisfying storyline and give it to the one and only solo-king. I do, however, consider Tobi to be overall stronger, since his mix of techniques is pretty damn OP and makes him invincible for most people, especially pre-war.
I expect Itachi to have fundamental knowledge of Tobi's Kamui, similar to Konan, but he apparently didn't know of his Izanagi, hence the failure of the Amaterasu trap. Tobi on the other hand should have pretty extensive knowledge of Itachi's abilities, with only Yata, Totsuka and Izanami being questionable.
Hype is kind of disregardable, here. From what I recall, Tobi had an incredibly high opinion of Itachi and knew how skilled he was, while I think it was implied Itachi was weary of Tobi and avoided facing him directly, but that was under the impression of him being Madara, which implies a lot more strength than swirly-mask Tobi actually had.
Argument for Tobi:
Tobi's onyl way to win is by absorbing Itachi. Amaterasu is an effective counter to any absorption attempts, but only as long as Izanagi isn't active. As soon as that's the case, Tobi could try a brute-strategy similar to Danzo, tanking any damage (even Amaterasu) just to be able to absorb Itachi. But then there's Susanoo's instant activation speed, and being crushed to the floor would definitely stop the absorption process. Tobi's absorption was hinted to also work instantly or at least accelerated after he failed absorbing Minato, but I have yet to see proof of that. So Tobi's best shot would be similar to Danzo's, trying to wear Itachi out by forcing him to use straineous MS-techniques. I don't consider Tobi's small-scale usage of Mokuton any threat, considering Itachi's speed, agility and Susanoo.
Argument for Itachi:
It's vice versa, Itachi's only way of harming Tobi is Amaterasu, but that only until Izanagi is used. He'd have to try and wear Danzo's Izanagi out, which I cannot see happening with only MS techniques having the potential to actually harm him. Itachi has, however, a pretty good shot at defeating Tobi with Izanami. Once he's in Izanami-trance, Itachi is free to murder him any way he wishes. If Tobi opted for a brute Izanagi strategy, forcing Itachi to continuously use Amaterasu, I could very well see the latter recreating a physical sensation twice and thus activating Izanami without seeming suspicious. It's Itachi, after all.
A case could be made for either one, but since Izanami was created solely to punish Izanagi-users, I'll follow this satisfying storyline and give it to the one and only solo-king. I do, however, consider Tobi to be overall stronger, since his mix of techniques is pretty damn OP and makes him invincible for most people, especially pre-war.
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Kamui is almost rendered obsolete with Itachi seemingly having knowledge on it and the fact that Yata Mirror can deflect any and all attacks
Obito would have to snipe Itachi from the get go to try to win this here. With Itachi's knowledge on the kamui and Obito admitting he'd be dead if he didn't at least keep a few things hidden from Itachi as well as him being unable to approach Konoha or Sasuke while Itachi was alive speaks volumes about how much Obito feared Itachi
With Izanami at his side as well Itachi more than has a chance in this battle.
With Izanami at his side as well Itachi more than has a chance in this battle.
Kamui is almost rendered obsolete with Itachi seemingly having knowledge on it and the fact that Yata Mirror can deflect any and all attacks
Obito would have to snipe Itachi from the get go to try to win this here. With Itachi's knowledge on the kamui and Obito admitting he'd be dead if he didn't at least keep a few things hidden from Itachi as well as him being unable to approach Konoha or Sasuke while Itachi was alive speaks volumes about how much Obito feared Itachi
With Izanami at his side as well Itachi more than has a chance in this battle.
With Izanami at his side as well Itachi more than has a chance in this battle.
Izanami isnβt a battle practical jutsu.
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Totsuka and Yata only materialized in the V4/V3 susanoβo state. Itβs not something Itachi can pull out quickly enough to catch Tobi. So Tobi can pressure Itachi freely and when susanoβo builds to that level, vanish. Considering for Sasuke, susanoβo hurt every cell in his body to use, prolonged usage and flipping it on isnβt a reliable tactic for Itachi.
Amaterasu apart from close range scenarios wonβt catch Tobi off guard though. KCM Naruto outspend Ay 2 and Tobi was keeping up and reacting to KCM just fine.
IIRC Itachi himself admits itβs not a jutsu he can use in combat, but itβs been years since I read it. It requires a complete loop though against someone whose arguably more knowledgeable about Sharingan jutsu than Itachi
Amaterasu apart from close range scenarios wonβt catch Tobi off guard though. KCM Naruto outspend Ay 2 and Tobi was keeping up and reacting to KCM just fine.
IIRC Itachi himself admits itβs not a jutsu he can use in combat, but itβs been years since I read it. It requires a complete loop though against someone whose arguably more knowledgeable about Sharingan jutsu than Itachi
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Itachi pulled it out in seconds iirc when Kirin was about to hit him. He also tagged a juiced up Nagato with it and Orochimaru. It's not as slow as you're trying to make it seem.
It's been years since I read, so please correct me, KCM was also in the edo Nagato and Itach fight, and Itachi was comfortably able to tag and fight against Naruto in that state. Admittedly it was Edo Itachi, but that's healthy Itachi. Going back to it a healthy Itachi, per Zetsu, had reaction far better than what we saw against Sasuke, and even then he was able to react to Kamui with Susanoo.
I don't remember this tbh, but it's been years since I read it too.
It does. Though not sure it knowledge on Izanagi will prevent it from happening.
It's been years since I read, so please correct me, KCM was also in the edo Nagato and Itach fight, and Itachi was comfortably able to tag and fight against Naruto in that state. Admittedly it was Edo Itachi, but that's healthy Itachi. Going back to it a healthy Itachi, per Zetsu, had reaction far better than what we saw against Sasuke, and even then he was able to react to Kamui with Susanoo.
I don't remember this tbh, but it's been years since I read it too.
It does. Though not sure it knowledge on Izanagi will prevent it from happening.
Battle of tha Hax lmao, Itachi has a wider range of Hax. But Obito has stronger Hax imo, Kamui is broken as shit. Iβd favor Obito hea at extreme diff, Kamui should be able to get em out of any right scrapes but any touch from Itachi basically ends tha fight or renders Obito at an immediate disadvantage
Obito's main advantage is the fact has Senju cells allowing him to spam his techniques much easier without any drawbacks.
Itachi was overpowered by Hebi Sasuke's katon, pushing him to use amaterasu(a chakra taxing technique for him), and Obito displayed Juubi sized level katons in the war arc(as well as his wide spread mokuton techniques), which would push Itachi to use Amaterasu / Susanoo just to counter them.
On the other hand, Obito can freely ignore Itachi's MS techniques thanks to his kamui phasing ability and either phase aim for warping attacks in kamui dimension or play the long game for when Itachi will run out of stamina and finish him
I don't even think Izanagi / Izanami would play a role here
Obito also has the advantage in portrayal. Itachi never attempted a confrontation with Obito despite being a konoha spy and knowing his evil intentions when on the other hand, Obito was using Itachi to groom Sasuke.
Itachi also called him his "mentor" and implied that EMS was needed against him in a discussion with Sasuke. Furthermore, Obito wasn't threatened even when he saw Kabuto summoning the entire Akatsuki, Itachi included, with both Kabuto and Zetsu thinking the only way to convince MS Obito to work with Kabuto would be to summon Madara.
Itachi was overpowered by Hebi Sasuke's katon, pushing him to use amaterasu(a chakra taxing technique for him), and Obito displayed Juubi sized level katons in the war arc(as well as his wide spread mokuton techniques), which would push Itachi to use Amaterasu / Susanoo just to counter them.
On the other hand, Obito can freely ignore Itachi's MS techniques thanks to his kamui phasing ability and either phase aim for warping attacks in kamui dimension or play the long game for when Itachi will run out of stamina and finish him
I don't even think Izanagi / Izanami would play a role here
Obito also has the advantage in portrayal. Itachi never attempted a confrontation with Obito despite being a konoha spy and knowing his evil intentions when on the other hand, Obito was using Itachi to groom Sasuke.
Itachi also called him his "mentor" and implied that EMS was needed against him in a discussion with Sasuke. Furthermore, Obito wasn't threatened even when he saw Kabuto summoning the entire Akatsuki, Itachi included, with both Kabuto and Zetsu thinking the only way to convince MS Obito to work with Kabuto would be to summon Madara.
Susanoβo has never been materialized to its fullest that fast. Itachi credited susanoβo itself for his survival so itβs very likely he used a V2 / Skeleton version to survive. Likewise, Itachi wouldnβt of been face down in rubble if he used Yata mirror of all things to deflect Kirin.
Itβs not precisely slowβTobi is just too fast. His best offensive feats with Totsuka is killing a giant dragon while Orochimaru monologues and Nagato who was being manually puppeted and still.
yes, but they were also talking. Naruto wasnβt going very hard against Itachi or Nagato at the beginning. Not does Itachiβs speed negate the fact that Tobi fits comfortably in the reaction range to Amaterasu if itβs at a distance. Kamui gives him the ability counter it by phasing around it. Short range? Yeah, itβll go to Izanagi to save Tobi. But otherwise heβs not being hit.
No, but it means Tobi can counter that if Itachi tries it. Which would be a hard set up for him in the first place. Izanagi wasnβt exactly what I meant.
Itβs not precisely slowβTobi is just too fast. His best offensive feats with Totsuka is killing a giant dragon while Orochimaru monologues and Nagato who was being manually puppeted and still.
yes, but they were also talking. Naruto wasnβt going very hard against Itachi or Nagato at the beginning. Not does Itachiβs speed negate the fact that Tobi fits comfortably in the reaction range to Amaterasu if itβs at a distance. Kamui gives him the ability counter it by phasing around it. Short range? Yeah, itβll go to Izanagi to save Tobi. But otherwise heβs not being hit.
No, but it means Tobi can counter that if Itachi tries it. Which would be a hard set up for him in the first place. Izanagi wasnβt exactly what I meant.
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To be fair the most he knows of Edo Tensei at that point is what heβd of gathered from Orochimaru. Where Madaraβs rival and superior was defeated by old Sarutobi. I think itβs reasonable to assume the Akatsukiβif similarly brought backβ would be of no issue.
Itachi > Shisui. Heβs the prodigy of the clan, Shisui was very talented and strong but heβs no Itachi
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Itachi > Shisui. Heβs the prodigy of the clan, Shisui was very talented and strong but heβs no Itachi