General & Others Wano had very few abandoned plot points

[Logiko]

I agree its what i wanted to see.
May be its cope, but it was logical with all was pointed out. And it was just there...

But that was not a plot line. Simply a question. And it was answered as a question.

People really need to understand the difference between what a plotline is and what a plotpoint is.

One Piece is a story that openly invites readers to theorize and dissect the narration, but a lot of people are simply not enough well equipped to do that correctly. This is why they will often confuse foreshadowing with hints, character development with expectations or - like here - plot points with plot lines.

To make it more understandable see this like this:

- A plot point is one of the constitual elements of a plotline. It can affect the plotline but it will not be its motor and therefore it doesn't necessaraly need to be explained. For example, Kaido being suicidal is a plot point (even if in this case, it can actuallly be explained easily). Another example: Zoro seemingly being related to Ryuma is also a plot point.

- The plot line on the other hand. Is the wire that will create the story from a to b. A storyline is constitued by a lot of elements (that would be to long to list) but mainly by the goal and the need of a character (or sometimes by a succession of events). There is no plotline without characters. An example of plotline is Momo overcoming his fears and standing up as the new Shogun. Another Subplotline can also be Zoro needed to become stronger through his mastering of King's Haki and his new sword.

What is important to understand is that a plotline if not resolved will leave a big hole in the story. Far bigger than what we are discussing here. A hole so big that it can simply negate the storytelling. That's why almost all plotline are usually closed at the end of an arc.

If something important is left hanging (like the example of Karibou and the weapons) then it means that the story will come back to this plot line later and that its not finished and even less abandonned.

In One Piece, absolutely ZERO plotlines have been abandonned.

(and trust me. The Nika/G5 reveal was a masterpiece from an objective narrative standpoint)

 

[Dragon777]

Your adjectiv masterpiece for Nika is overrated.

That Is putting lightly. The real word is horrendous, but anyone can (and should) appreciate different things.

 

[Gauntlet]

Zoro proclaiming that he'd gather the samurai, and Franky boasting about creating Anti-Kaido weapons are definitely dropped plot points.

 

[Logiko]

Zoro proclaiming that he'd gather the samurai, and Franky boasting about creating Anti-Kaido weapons are definitely dropped plot points.

A plot point can't be "dropped". Its a plot point.

 

[Gauntlet]

A plot point can't be "dropped". Its a plot point.

A plot point can be dropped if there are no other plot points to connect to said plot point to create a plot line. As such the plot points were dropped for other plot points that Oda deemed more appropriate for Zoro and Franky at the time. As the time has passed for these plot points to make any moves within the narrative, they were succinctly left behind at the end of Zou.

 

[Logiko]

A plot point can be dropped if there are no other plot points to connect to said plot point to create a plot line

No. That's not how it works.

A plot point is a part of what constitute a plot line. A plot line CAN be dropped, but not a plot point. A plot point is a fixed element.

A plot point doesn't necessaraly need to be explained unless the narration calls for an explanation. Which didn't happen in Wano for any of those elements.

 

[Gauntlet]

No. That's not how it works.

A plot point is a part of what constitute a plot line. A plot line CAN be dropped, but not a plot point. A plot point is a fixed element.

A plot point doesn't necessaraly need to be explained unless the narration calls for an explanation. Which didn't happen in Wano for any of those elements.

A plot point without any follow up is simply eating space and wasting ink on the page, for if there is no other plot points to finish what the 1st plot point started, then it may as well never happened as objectively nothing comes from a sole plot point on it's own. Such a thing is simply left behind and has no bearing on the story. If these declarations were never made, there would be no expectations of said declarations to be fulfilled, or even later explained why such declarations weren't fulfilled, but nothing of the sort has transpired.

 

[Logiko]

A plot point without any follow up is simply eating space and wasting ink on the page,

No. Its a relevant element that will serve the storyline and its narration.

. Such a thing is simply left behind and has no bearing on the story.

No. That's not how it works mate. Again, you are confusing plot point and plot line.

If these declarations were never made, there would be no expectations of said declarations to be fulfilled

The problem is that there should be no expectations in the first place. Expectations in One Piece are mostly fuelled by fan who think they can analyse the story but actually don't have the element to understand how it really works.

That's how Sanji fan started to expect a fight in whole cake when the entire character arc of sanji points toward the opposite. Or Zoro killing Kaido, or Luffy killing Big Mom etc. What a character say is - again - not necessarily what will happen. In fact it will most likely not happen.

There is what we call legitimate expectation : Expectation created by the storyline
And
Illegitimate expectation : Expectation created by wishes and a poor analysis of the story


In other word : Stay close to what the story say and needs, not what you want the story to be.

 

[Dragon777]

Zoro proclaiming that he'd gather the samurai, and Franky boasting about creating Anti-Kaido weapons are definitely dropped plot points.

True.

A shame for Franky's in particular. But after Luffy-BM this Is nothing of course.

 

[LolonoisZolo]

This is getting ridiculous...
Franky declares ''I will make a weapon capable of hurting Kaido''
Reader : expects Franky to make a weapon capable of hurting Kaido
Manga : never ever spoke of it again, not even a mention
@Logiko ''Noone should have expected Franky to make a weapon capable of hurting Kaido, it was just Franky saying random stuff because why not''

 

[Fn Lucci]

It wasn't. The reveal of Nika (and the gear 5) is a narrative masterpiece.

You don't even believe that yourself, you just enjoy arguing bullshit to the contrary. We need to stop giving you this attention you seek.

At best it was an unexpected homage to what Toriyama did 30 years earlier and it's possible that this man just subconsciously lifted the bouncing back stronger idea from getting his ass kicked in the KoF arcade games

 

[Logiko]

This is getting ridiculous...
Franky declares ''I will make a weapon capable of hurting Kaido''
Reader : expects Franky to make a weapon capable of hurting Kaido
Manga : never ever spoke of it again, not even a mention
@Logiko ''Noone should have expected Franky to make a weapon capable of hurting Kaido, it was just Franky saying random stuff because why not''

What you don't understand is that it was not "random stuff", that was actually an sentence from Franky (that was actually "I'm gonna get working on some anti-Kaido weapon"), but fate decided otherwise. You should ALWAYS be careful not to expect things when a character say that they will do something as dialogue are here often to subvert your expectations. That's a BASIC rule when understanding and analysis stories.

Especially with a panel like this where all the characters are depicted as over-optimistic in front of a massive danger.

You don't even believe that yourself

Actually I do believe that. I believe that so much that I posted this on my profil when the chapter dropped:

I knew and understood already full well how ground breaking and historic that revelation actually was for storytelling and shonen history.

You don't need to give me attention. But an advice for you: When talking about basic storytelling with me, the best thing to do is to listen to what I say.

At best it was an unexpected homage to what Toriyama did 30 years earlier and it's possible that this man just subconsciously lifted the bouncing back stronger idea from getting his ass kicked in the KoF arcade games

Its far more than that.

 

[Fn Lucci]

What you don't understand is that it was not "random stuff", that was actually an sentence from Franky (that was actually "I'm gonna get working on some anti-Kaido weapon"), but fate decided otherwise. You should ALWAYS be careful not to expect things when a character say that they will do something as dialogue are here often to subvert your expectations. That's a BASIC rule when understanding and analysis stories.

Especially with a panel like this where all the characters are depicted as over-optimistic in front of a massive danger.



Actually I do believe that. I believe that so much that I posted this on my profil when the chapter dropped:

I knew and understood already full well how ground breaking and historic that revelation actually was for storytelling and shonen history.

You don't need to give me attention. But an advice for you: When talking about basic storytelling with me, the best thing to do is to listen to what I say.



Its far more than that.

I didn't say that you've only just now starting being this way, lol. You've used the most basic explanations to not go into detail, but remain in a surface level praise for why it's remotely significant in the world of One Piece. Not why it's actually innovative in this manga or shonen in general, you don't acknowledge why it's seen as contrived, or why it's been pelted with claims of discrepancy in regards to the entire concept of awakening. Like oh wow, gear second implies more gears and maybe sorta it's fueled by Merry's Klabautermann. Ok, lol

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

I don't mind Luffy's promise to Big Mom not happening. Not every promise can be kept.

 

[Logiko]

I didn't say that you've only just now starting being this way, lol. You've used the most basic explanations to not go into detail, but remain in a surface level praise for why it's remotely significant in the world of One Piece.

Actually I went quite into details and absolutely not basic explanations. At least concerning plantings.
But I stayed to the thematic: plantings as its because of its plantings that this revelation is so good.

But I could also talk about the milking method used concerning this revelation as it is excellent as well.

The innovations comes from the addition to all those methods in the scale of the story and the impacts it had on the story, the characters and the storylines. I could indeed go into more details but its really not needed and looking at the state of the anti G5 echo chamber of this forum, it would be absolutely useless.

you don't acknowledge why it's seen as contrived

The reactions and divisions of the fans could actually be another point to explain why this transformation is historic. Not all historical things have 100% of good reactions.

But those bad reactions are mainly based of the missunderstanding on the way storytelling works (in so many aspects). So no. I will not take it into account.

claims of discrepancy in regards to the entire concept of awakening

Claims are just claims. I'm not here to comment "claims" made by random people on the internet. I'm here to analyse and understand the story to the maximum. Nothing in gear 5 was a "discrepancy". Its actually perfectly in line with what has been established with the Budha fruit and other Zoans.

Like oh wow, gear second implies more gears and maybe sorta it's fueled by Merry's Klabautermann. Ok, lol

Note that I don't assert anything on the Klabautermann, this is only a theory.

But yes. Gear Second implies multiple Gear, especially when its followed directly by the preparation of the revelation of Gear 3.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Whoever replies to C4N is stupid ngl.
Arguing in bad faith, lying and twisting reality.

 

[Logiko]

Whoever replies to C4N is stupid ngl.
Arguing in bad faith, lying and twisting reality.

Humble yourself for once.

 

[Dragon777]

I don't mind Luffy's promise to Big Mom not happening. Not every promise can be kept.

I would have liked to see Luffy vs BM more than he vs mr blank space Kaido, and hopefully keep Wano out of It.

But alas.

Post automatically merged: Apr 12, 2024

Nothing in gear 5 was a "discrepancy". Its actually perfectly in line with what has been established with the Budha fruit and other Zoans.

Sure: the only zoan that doesn't have a base, an hybrid and full zoan but Just an Awakened form.
Totally in line.

 

[Logiko]

Sure: the only zoan that doesn't have a base, an hybrid and full zoan but Just an Awakened form.

The Zoan have an animal form and an hybrid form. In fact they can have multiple hybrid forms as the Zoan is constituated of a scale of transformation between human and animal.

Human human model do no have animal forms since the animal form is human (duh), as such the human form only work when an animal eats the fruit (like chopper).

In the case case of Luffy, there are actually MULTIPLE hybrid form:
- Gear 2 & 3 (that I would consider pre-hybrid forms)
And
- Gear 4 Tank Man
- Gear 4 Bound Man
- Gear 4 Snake man

You can see that mainly because Luffy uses his fruit in completely unconventionnal way and they ALL get that smoke scarf that is the identifier of form of deity.

Luffy's transformation is actually completely in line with what was setup with Chopper's transformation as Luffy - by himself - is going being the simple limit of a single hybrid form.

And ALL form are based on the same principle : Pushing the limit of physical and realistic boundaries to creates something impossible.

 

[Dragon777]

The Zoan have an animal form and an hybrid form. In fact they can have multiple hybrid forms as the Zoan is constituated of a scale of transformation between human and animal.

True.

Human human model do no have animal forms since the animal form is human (duh), as such the human form only work when an animal eats the fruit (like chopper).

That, instead, Is blatantly untrue. Luffy zoan Is model Nika, so clearly he should have a Nika form.

In the case case of Luffy, there are actually MULTIPLE hybrid form:
- Gear 2 & 3 (that I would consider pre-hybrid forms)
And
- Gear 4 Tank Man
- Gear 4 Bound Man
- Gear 4 Snake man

You can see that mainly because Luffy uses his fruit in completely unconventionnal way and they ALL get that smoke scarf that is the identifier of form of deity.

Luffy's transformation is actually completely in line with what was setup with Chopper's transformation as Luffy - by himself - is going being the simple limit of a single hybrid form.

And ALL form are based on the same principle : Pushing the limit of physical and realistic boundaries to creates something impossible.

And that Is another clearly untrue statement since gears are not at all like Hybrid forms, but work only thanks to Luffy having ideas about how to use air or blood pressure + his elastic powers and haki .

So again: his Is the only zoan with no Hybrid or Full zoan but just Awakened form.

But no wonder since its origin.