The authority held by the Tradition is confirmed by the Bible and the Bible has its roots in the Tradition, as these texts were transmitted orally before being written down. So Tradition pre-dates Scripture, continues after its writing and helps in its interptetation. In turn, the Scripture's steadfastness prevents the Traditiom from swaying too much. Both have to be in agreement because they come from the same divine source. I don't see how it would make sense to let everyone interpret things the way they prefer. Btw if you like reading and interpreting Scripture you should probably study its original languages and cultural context.
Controversial Pope Elections and Holy Tribute to Pope François
- Thread starter Mathias
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2 Timothy 3:15 - 3:17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The Bible is perfect.
Timothy knew the scriptures from when he was a child, unless he had the original copies, God calls copies of the scripture, scripture.
Genesis 40:8
“And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.”
Interpretations belong to God, the context here is the person being asked about a dream, but it isn't said that interpretations of dreams belong to God, it is said that interpretations belong to God, they don't belong to a council or a catholic church father or to a priest or to the pope.
And catholic tradition contradicts the Bible so it's not biblical and false.
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The Bible is perfect.
Timothy knew the scriptures from when he was a child, unless he had the original copies, God calls copies of the scripture, scripture.
Genesis 40:8
“And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.”
Interpretations belong to God, the context here is the person being asked about a dream, but it isn't said that interpretations of dreams belong to God, it is said that interpretations belong to God, they don't belong to a council or a catholic church father or to a priest or to the pope.
And catholic tradition contradicts the Bible so it's not biblical and false.
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Posting random, disconnected bits of Scripture won't help your case. Factual reality is that protestants like talking about freedom of interpretation but disagree even among themselves about how things should be interpreted. If you also think that studying the historical context and the original languages doesn't help one's understanding, it seems just like wishful thinking on your part or perhaps it's just laziness.
Not an organization? It sure seems to me that Christ here was establishing an organization.
Matthew 16:18-19:
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
These are choice words our Lord gave to an Apostle who, in your view, is just one of several in a mere ragtag group of believers.
Matthew 16:18-19:
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
These are choice words our Lord gave to an Apostle who, in your view, is just one of several in a mere ragtag group of believers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council
Where does it say this in Scripture? Bible alone?
Romans 3:3 - 3:4
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Romans chapter 3:3 through chapter 3:4...
Romans Chapter 3
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
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Let God be true, and every man a liar.
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Galatians 1:1
“Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)”
Galatians 1:8 - 1:9
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Galatians chapter 1:8 through chapter 1:9...
Galatians Chapter 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
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Any apostle ( Paul says but though we ), any angel from heaven, any man, has it said about him "let him be accursed" if he preach any other gospel unto you Than that which was preached.
Where is the gospel?
In the Bible.
The Bible is the standard, no one and nothing else.
1 Timothy 1:15
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”
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Galatians 1:1
“Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)”
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Galatians 1:8 - 1:9
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Galatians chapter 1:8 through chapter 1:9...
Galatians Chapter 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
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Acts 14:8 - 14:18
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Acts Chapter 14
8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.
11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
18 And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.
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^ Look at their own words ( specifically Acts 14:15 ).
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Psalms 18:2 - The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
2 Samuel 22:32 - For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
Matthew 16:18 - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
1 Samuel 2:2 - There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1 Corinthians 10:4 - And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
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And about the rock, God, Jesus Christ, is the rock, not Peter.
The Catholic church compiled the Bible in the late fourth century. Before the books, there was oral tradition and before/after that there is the manifestation of God's own will. I'm Christian thnx to miracles that happened within the Catholic environment(Eucharistic miracle, Apparitions of Fatima, incorrupt Saints and so on...). The Bible is not the be all, end all.
Theology of the body is an example. People confuse dogma, doctrines and tradition.
One of the most important Christian monuments was built on top of Peter's graveyard lol
If one doesn't agree with dogma, they ain't Catholic. There is no disagreeing with dogma, only doctrine or tradition.
The Bible is a collection of books. How is it do you think you are going to understand that without studying history, cultural context, literary styles and philosophy? Free interpretation is BS. You need to study things outside the Bible to understand the words in the Bible.
The very first Christians were NOT European. Stop being racist.
You pretend there aren't/weren't protestant that did/do the exact same thing. At least the Catholic Church amends it's mistakes. I'm still waiting for a real miracle that hasn't happened in a Catholic setting, without those, everything written in the Bible is just fantasy. Incredible claims requires incredible evidence to back them up.
Warchief is a hardcore gooner.
I'm pretty the POPE confessed with his mouth that Jesus was the lord every single day of his life...Not sure what you are on about here..
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Theology of the body is an example. People confuse dogma, doctrines and tradition.
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One of the most important Christian monuments was built on top of Peter's graveyard lol
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If one doesn't agree with dogma, they ain't Catholic. There is no disagreeing with dogma, only doctrine or tradition.
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The Bible is a collection of books. How is it do you think you are going to understand that without studying history, cultural context, literary styles and philosophy? Free interpretation is BS. You need to study things outside the Bible to understand the words in the Bible.
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The very first Christians were NOT European. Stop being racist.
You pretend there aren't/weren't protestant that did/do the exact same thing. At least the Catholic Church amends it's mistakes. I'm still waiting for a real miracle that hasn't happened in a Catholic setting, without those, everything written in the Bible is just fantasy. Incredible claims requires incredible evidence to back them up.
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Warchief is a hardcore gooner.
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I'm pretty the POPE confessed with his mouth that Jesus was the lord every single day of his life...Not sure what you are on about here..
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2 Timothy 3:15
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
So, what scripture did child Timothy know, unless he had the original manuscripts, or heard someone read from the original manuscripts, and how is he going to be made wise unto salvation by them, and how does he know them, without the cultural and historical context, and how can the scriptures, and not a person, make Timothy wise unto salvation
The answer is, God and the Bible alone, and catholic specific doctrine and catholic specific tradition and all these arguments for it are bunk
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
So, what scripture did child Timothy know, unless he had the original manuscripts, or heard someone read from the original manuscripts, and how is he going to be made wise unto salvation by them, and how does he know them, without the cultural and historical context, and how can the scriptures, and not a person, make Timothy wise unto salvation
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The answer is, God and the Bible alone, and catholic specific doctrine and catholic specific tradition and all these arguments for it are bunk
You will not understand the stories of the old testament without historical and cultural context. The scriptures are derived from the oral tradition. Btw, the Bible was compiled in the late fourth century by the Catholic church lol. Using the Bible to debunk the Catholic church is dumb. The Church decided what was a canon book and what wasn't. You keep talking about Catholic doctrine, but it seems to me you are NOT very well informed about it. This thread isn't about this, but would you mind elaborating further(with details) on what exactly is that the Catholic Church gets wrong?
So, let me get this straight, you are going to ignore the will of God that has being manifested in contemporary times just cause they aren't written in the Bible? If an Angel or God himself were to show themselves to you, would you ignore it cause this isn't mentioned in the Bible? The God that preceds the Bible is alive and well as of this very moment. The Bible isn't the be all, end all. Miracles happen all the fucking time for fucks sake.
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So, let me get this straight, you are going to ignore the will of God that has being manifested in contemporary times just cause they aren't written in the Bible? If an Angel or God himself were to show themselves to you, would you ignore it cause this isn't mentioned in the Bible? The God that preceds the Bible is alive and well as of this very moment. The Bible isn't the be all, end all. Miracles happen all the fucking time for fucks sake.
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Romans 10:9 - 10:10
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Romans Chapter 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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Romans 3:10 - 3:12
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Romans Chapter 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
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1 John 4:1 - 4:3
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1 John Chapter 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
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Galatians 1:8 - 1:9
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Galatians chapter 1:8 through chapter 1:9...
Galatians Chapter 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
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1 John 4:1-3 talks about how to test spirits.
I hope you go to heaven, but if you do, I don't think you will look back on these actions of supporting catholicism and idolatry and garbage doctrine with favour, especially because if you believe in the Son of God, trusted him, did Romans 10:9-10 to be exact, so are saved, many of your brothers and sisters in Christ have been killed by the people who made-up and lead those doctrines.
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Romans chapter 10:9 through chapter 10:10...
Romans Chapter 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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Romans 3:10 - 3:12
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Romans chapter 3:10 through chapter 3:12...
Romans Chapter 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
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1 John 4:1 - 4:3
Now viewing scripture range from the book of 1 John chapter 4:1 through chapter 4:3...
1 John Chapter 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
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Galatians 1:8 - 1:9
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Galatians chapter 1:8 through chapter 1:9...
Galatians Chapter 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
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1 John 4:1-3 talks about how to test spirits.
I hope you go to heaven, but if you do, I don't think you will look back on these actions of supporting catholicism and idolatry and garbage doctrine with favour, especially because if you believe in the Son of God, trusted him, did Romans 10:9-10 to be exact, so are saved, many of your brothers and sisters in Christ have been killed by the people who made-up and lead those doctrines.
Stop condescending me. Protestantism is responsible for literal bloodshed among Christians and the fragmentation of faith. What idolatry? What garbage doctrine? I would appreciate if you stopped flooding the thread with random scripture too. Your original post was inappropriate to the say the least. This preachy attitude isn't making you look better.