Powers & Abilities Do Black Blades Require Conqueror Haki?

#81
You absolute moron THERES BILLIONS MORE PEOPLE IN HISTORY WITH COA THAN COC
People who would ONLY focus on coa

So why is there only 2 in history ?

Is that easy enough for you to understand clown🤡
Because kokuto is the pinnacle of coa you dumbfuck

so random retarded fodder ain't gonna achieve it. Being a top tier is not achievable for everyone. There's not billions in history who are top tiers lol

I'm talking about why other top tiers who are all stronger than mohawk don't have a kokuto

Of course your retarded ass missed the point
 
#82
The idea here isn't to challenge others ideas or to gain a consensus. It's about exploring the topic and making our own conclusions. Whatever is said here is just meant to be something to reflect on, not to be considered absolute.

Me and my specialist ideas are not in direct conflict with another person's ideas, for example, and I don't consider them absolute. There is often more than one way to look at things and we only stand to benefit from considering others ideas. At least, that is supposed to be the spirit of collaboration.
 
#83
Hmm maybe this is crazy but whatever. I had a thought, we learned from luffy if he uses haki at a maximum output(gear 4th) his arnament haki runs out and he is tired needing help from others after it runs out. We learned from zoro use of enma that his blades will kill him now sure this goes along with enmas nature, but what if the same thing would basically happen to let's say ryuma? What if his first huge feat of pushing back the world government is where he creates his black blade? The battle would be long and drawn out etc. Plenty of adv coc use and ryou Since swords have a will of there own what if its more so the sword awakening ...not wanting to kill its user but wanting to be by there wielders side forever.. final result turning black and becoming indestructible. Probably with one of the benefits being the wielders wouldn't need to flow haki for defense everything can just be offensive.
 
#84
Hmm maybe this is crazy but whatever. I had a thought, we learned from luffy if he uses haki at a maximum output(gear 4th) his arnament haki runs out and he is tired needing help from others after it runs out. We learned from zoro use of enma that his blades will kill him now sure this goes along with enmas nature, but what if the same thing would basically happen to let's say ryuma? What if his first huge feat of pushing back the world government is where he creates his black blade? The battle would be long and drawn out etc. Plenty of adv coc use and ryou Since swords have a will of there own what if its more so the sword awakening ...not wanting to kill its user but wanting to be by there wielders side forever.. final result turning black and becoming indestructible. Probably with one of the benefits being the wielders wouldn't need to flow haki for defense everything can just be offensive.
Another interesting thing about that is haki blooms in battle, so it may be involved. I agree.
 
#85
Another interesting thing about that is haki blooms in battle, so it may be involved. I agree.
Yea could be haki bloom plus swords will becoming one or something like that. I'm almost willing to die on the hill that the sword has to want to turn black for some specific reason. I especially thought it was suspicious that the one shot remake gave ryuma his sword to slay the dragon meaning he almost had to have created it fighting and pushing the world government back singlehandedly.
 
#86
My position here is that Black Blades are exclusive to Armament Haki Specialists. However, with how rare it is for somebody to make one, it can easily imply that at a high level of Armament Mastery a specialist can access Conqueror Coating which is primarily a Conqueror Mastery ability and that through a combination of Armament Haki and Conqueror Haki a Black Blade can be forged.

The evidence may suggest otherwise because it is said a Black Blade is forged over countless battles, and I think Armament Specialists primarily infuse it with Armament Haki throughout that time. They may be able to infuse Conqueror Haki into it as well, at high levels of mastery, but the driving force in a Black Blade is the Armament Haki resonance which leaves parts of its energy in the sword each time it is used. It gradually reaches a point where the resonance is high enough to cause it to become altered as a form of superalloy.

Generally, on this website, people believe that Conqueror Coating is the trigger for a Black Blade to be forged. The reasoning that supports this includes such things as a belief that Conqueror Coating will become permanent in the same way as I described Armament Haki permanently altering the blade.

A counterpoint to this is that Armament Haki characteristics include hardness, and Black Blades are unbreakable. That is not a Conqueror Haki characteristic. In fact, a Conqueror characteristic contradicts this because they can't use low grade weapons. They would break them. A characteristic of Conquerors is that they use so much force that they require a Supreme Grade blade to use the full extent of their strength.

From my perspective, both arguments have merit, but there are some indiscrepancies between them. Conqueror's Haki is mysterious still, so it's not impossible that it evolves the blade, but there are many things pointing to Armament Haki too.
"A counterpoint to this is that Armament Haki characteristics include hardness, and Black Blades are unbreakable. That is not a Conqueror Haki characteristic. In fact, a Conqueror characteristic contradicts this because they can't use low grade weapons. They would break them. "

That is not how this works. The entire point of armament haki is to use your will to shield something. You can use conquerors as armament in order to further reinforce anything. In that case the users Conquerors haki takes on the characteristic of hardness, because it's being applied as such (Armament)

The literal application of conquerors haki does not break weapons of lower grades. Now that we have more context as to "mass" of haki, what makes much more sense is that a lower graded weapon cannot withstand the "Full Power" of a character like whitebeard's CoC.

Because the statement says for Whitebeards Naginata "Murakumogiri":

"This naginatas extraordinary durability allowed whitebeard to channel his full power through it"- in other words: His full mass

This is then what it also means for Kaidos Kanabo, it can withstand the full might of Kaido's conquerors haki.

Therefore, a conquerors user like WB, can simply choose not to pour his full mass into a lower grade weapon, if he is insistent on using it.

He can still use his conquerors, but at a certain threshold of mass the blade won't be able to handle his haki pouring into it.

So in this example if we use WB, and he was using a lower grade naginata lets say, he could go on to forge that naginata into a black blade, and then it would be able to handle the full power of his conquerors, because it would have unparalleled durability
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
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#87
Because kokuto is the pinnacle of coa you dumbfuck

so random retarded fodder ain't gonna achieve it. Being a top tier is not achievable for everyone. There's not billions in history who are top tiers lol

I'm talking about why other top tiers who are all stronger than mohawk don't have a kokuto

Of course your retarded ass missed the point
No youre chatting shit as usual.

There have been PLENTY of top tiers for over 1000 years

Who said random fodder

If its just coa that means the pool to make it acheivable is EVEN MORE.

Yet theres only 2.
 
#88
"A counterpoint to this is that Armament Haki characteristics include hardness, and Black Blades are unbreakable. That is not a Conqueror Haki characteristic. In fact, a Conqueror characteristic contradicts this because they can't use low grade weapons. They would break them. "

That is not how this works. The entire point of armament haki is to use your will to shield something. You can use conquerors as armament in order to further reinforce anything. In that case the users Conquerors haki takes on the characteristic of hardness, because it's being applied as such (Armament)

The literal application of conquerors haki does not break weapons of lower grades. Now that we have more context as to "mass" of haki, what makes much more sense is that a lower graded weapon cannot withstand the "Full Power" of a character like whitebeard's CoC.

Because the statement says for Whitebeards Naginata "Murakumogiri":

"This naginatas extraordinary durability allowed whitebeard to channel his full power through it"- in other words: His full mass

This is then what it also means for Kaidos Kanabo, it can withstand the full might of Kaido's conquerors haki.

Therefore, a conquerors user like WB, can simply choose not to pour his full mass into a lower grade weapon, if he is insistent on using it.

He can still use his conquerors, but at a certain threshold of mass the blade won't be able to handle his haki pouring into it.

So in this example if we use WB, and he was using a lower grade naginata lets say, he could go on to forge that naginata into a black blade, and then it would be able to handle the full power of his conquerors, because it would have unparalleled durability
This makes so much sense and makes mihawk absolutely disgusting :steef:
 
#89
"A counterpoint to this is that Armament Haki characteristics include hardness, and Black Blades are unbreakable. That is not a Conqueror Haki characteristic. In fact, a Conqueror characteristic contradicts this because they can't use low grade weapons. They would break them. "

That is not how this works. The entire point of armament haki is to use your will to shield something. You can use conquerors as armament in order to further reinforce anything. In that case the users Conquerors haki takes on the characteristic of hardness, because it's being applied as such (Armament)

The literal application of conquerors haki does not break weapons of lower grades. Now that we have more context as to "mass" of haki, what makes much more sense is that a lower graded weapon cannot withstand the "Full Power" of a character like whitebeard's CoC.

Because the statement says for Whitebeards Naginata "Murakumogiri":

"This naginatas extraordinary durability allowed whitebeard to channel his full power through it"- in other words: His full mass

This is then what it also means for Kaidos Kanabo, it can withstand the full might of Kaido's conquerors haki.

Therefore, a conquerors user like WB, can simply choose not to pour his full mass into a lower grade weapon, if he is insistent on using it.

He can still use his conquerors, but at a certain threshold of mass the blade won't be able to handle his haki pouring into it.

So in this example if we use WB, and he was using a lower grade naginata lets say, he could go on to forge that naginata into a black blade, and then it would be able to handle the full power of his conquerors, because it would have unparalleled durability
Your point about the sword breaking because a Conqueror Specialist uses their full power isn't important from my view. You're just saying "if they don't use their full power then it won't break." The point is they can't use their full power with a weaker sword or it will break, so you're not changing anything.

Haki Mass as Conqueror Coating is another element of the discussion to be explored, but I'm unsure if it does the same thing as Armament. I understand Armament Haki includes weapons and equipment, and the invisible armor counts as a form of equipment, but where Armament stops and Conqueror begins is speculative.
 
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#93
"A counterpoint to this is that Armament Haki characteristics include hardness, and Black Blades are unbreakable. That is not a Conqueror Haki characteristic. In fact, a Conqueror characteristic contradicts this because they can't use low grade weapons. They would break them. "

That is not how this works. The entire point of armament haki is to use your will to shield something. You can use conquerors as armament in order to further reinforce anything. In that case the users Conquerors haki takes on the characteristic of hardness, because it's being applied as such (Armament)

The literal application of conquerors haki does not break weapons of lower grades. Now that we have more context as to "mass" of haki, what makes much more sense is that a lower graded weapon cannot withstand the "Full Power" of a character like whitebeard's CoC.

Because the statement says for Whitebeards Naginata "Murakumogiri":

"This naginatas extraordinary durability allowed whitebeard to channel his full power through it"- in other words: His full mass

This is then what it also means for Kaidos Kanabo, it can withstand the full might of Kaido's conquerors haki.

Therefore, a conquerors user like WB, can simply choose not to pour his full mass into a lower grade weapon, if he is insistent on using it.

He can still use his conquerors, but at a certain threshold of mass the blade won't be able to handle his haki pouring into it.

So in this example if we use WB, and he was using a lower grade naginata lets say, he could go on to forge that naginata into a black blade, and then it would be able to handle the full power of his conquerors, because it would have unparalleled durability
AdCoC isn't channeled through weapons, nor is it on Weapon, it's around the weapon and the user.. There's no pressure on the weapons themself..
 
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