Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

I hope you realize there's more than enough material online to do your own research and formulate your own opinion than waiting on a minor communist party in another country to give their opinion on things so you know which side to take. Don't engage in campism. Doing your research and forming opinions on other countries isn't imperialist behaviour.

I'm sorry, but that's not really how it works. And that's not what campism is in this case. We have to be sure to listen to the voice who are fighting, it's not an option. It's an anti-imperialist imperative.

I made my opinion based on the current paradigm, now I'm waiting for the people who live the situation and fight it, to speak. I'm noone to impose my vision of their fight on them.

For the rest, we need to be careful, especially concerning what can help the reactionnary side and the imperialist agenda.

But I'm talking for me as a leftist. You do what you want of course.

 

[Midnight Delight]

the communist and marxist organization of Iran who will have more legitimacy to speak about the situation.

They kind of Became pretty Corrupt after Mossy, if you know who Mossy is

 

[Zenos7]

What rhetoric? It's not my fault their books say such heinous stuff. Lol.

Anyways, I said this


Islam being fucked up doesn't excuse Islamophobia since most Muslims aren't even aware of such stuff and are great humans.


I was referring moreso to all religions in general. I have lived in a secular country for majority of my life and there's a ton of Muslims here and they all happen to be brilliant people. Some of my closest friends are Muslim. But after all, my country is secular and very developed so it may skew my views on what the avg Muslim things since everyone is peaceful here.

That 1/3rd of muslim students believing in it is crazy though. And really scary. Please provide the study if you have the time because that's kinda a tough figure to wrap my brain around lol

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:57 PM

I hope you realize there's more than enough material online to do your own research and formulate your own opinion than waiting on a minor communist party in another country to give their opinion on things so you know which side to take. Don't engage in campism. Doing your research and forming opinions on other countries isn't imperialist behaviour.

Survey Report

 

[Mathias]

Massacres against protestors are happening in Iran but the western hemisphere is focused on Greenland

 

[Midnight Delight]

Massacres against protestors are happening in Iran but the western hemisphere is focused on Greenland

I mean
The implications of NATO being dead is far worse

ESPECIALLY with Putin still around

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

I'm sorry, but that's not really how it works. And that's not what campism is in this case. We have to be sure to listen to the voice who are fighting, it's not an option. It's an anti-imperialist imperative.

I made my opinion based on the current paradigm, now I'm waiting for the people who live the situation and fight it, to speak. I'm noone to impose my vision of their fight on them.

For the rest, we need to be careful, especially concerning what can help the reactionnary side and the imperialist agenda.

But I'm talking for me as a leftist. You do what you want of course.

No this is literally campism. Treating your parties as a do-no-wrong authority. Form your own opinion. And I think there's more than enough Iranians who've given their view on the situation... as can be seen by the millions protesting on the streets. A party giving their opinion doesn't make it more worth than the clear general sentiment in the country right now which is very clearly anti-Ayatollah.

Imperialist agenda... like come on bro. This isn't sports. These are real human lives. Are we simply gonna ignore everything the Iranian government makes its citizens suffer simply because it happens to be "anti-imperialist" (more like anti-Western really)?

Not everyone in politics is on one side. 99% of parties have both good and bad policies. It's about weighing what is less evil. Sure, if the current regime falls, the newer government might be more pro-Israel (which is wrong) but...

If the political shift:
- Reduces executions
- Ends morality-police violence
- Improves women’s and LGBTQ+ rights
- Stabilizes the economy
- Stops torturing dissidents

Then yes, that is morally preferable, even if that party isn’t perfectly aligned on Israel and America. Pretending otherwise is being dismissive about the lives of millions of Iranians and putting your Western hatred over it.

You're pretty much saying "Your freedom matters less than my geopolitical narrative."

And worst part is, you're not even fighting imperialism then, you're simply fighting another political camp. Because this isn't anti-imperialism, leftism and is definitely NOT solidarity with the Iranian people. It’s aesthetic radicalism where hating the West matters more than actual human lives.

You're a good person Logiko. Don't fall into campism like these far right retards do. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. And honestly, there's only one right conclusion here which is support of the protestors.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Massacres against protestors are happening in Iran but the western hemisphere is focused on Greenland

Crying about the USA, Where is the EU? Doing absolutely nothing as usual.
And if they do, do something, it ain't worth a damn.
Gd EU fucking living in a flower garden.

 

[Rej]

I mean
The implications of NATO being dead is far worse

ESPECIALLY with Putin still around

Russia is dead too tho.
Russia is nothing else than a zombie going berserk rn.

Massacres against protestors are happening in Iran but the western hemisphere is focused on Greenland

Because Iran is a failed state. It's something that can be taken down later tbh.

 

[Logiko]

They kind of Became pretty Corrupt after Mossy, if you know who Mossy is

I'm not knowledgable enough for that no but I think I can't trust Marxist with this.

No this is literally campism. Treating your parties as a do-no-wrong authority.

Yes. But we are not talking about that here. Here the question is not if the Marxist did wrong or not, the question is who I can trust in Iran to deliver me a coherent, anti-imperialist and grounded knowledge about what is being done, the line and the movement.

And the one I can trust are on the ground or at the very least in the diasporas. Not imperialist, not random people on the web, those who live the situation.

And I think there's more than enough Iranians who've given their view on the situation... as can be seen by the millions protesting on the streets. A party giving their opinion doesn't make it more worth than the clear general sentiment in the country right now which is very clearly anti-Ayatollah.

You seems to have mistaken my rhetoric. I'm not waiting to have a judgment on the situation, I'm waiting for the right people to speak in order to follow THEIR line and share THEIR voice. as they are the one who can act or will act. And yeah, I'm waiting for the anti-imperialist side to talk, that logical.

Imperialist agenda... like come on bro. This isn't sports. These are real human lives. Are we simply gonna ignore everything the Iranian government makes its citizens suffer simply because it happens to be "anti-imperialist" (more like anti-Western really)?

Yeah, precisely. There are human lives at stake, and I consider that pushing for the son of an old US friendly dictator in power is currently a very imminent problem.


The danger is much bigger than Iran here, it's also about what this regime change could create geopolitically in the region, especially for Palestinians.

If the people of Iran want to have a regime change, we should accept even this guy, it's up to them to decide (and I'm completely with them on the necessity to get rid of their current oppressor), but not the US, not europe, not israel, not us. THEM. That's why, without reliable informations, I'm waiting for the revolutionary voices. The anti-imperialist and progressive ones.

 

[Roo]

Massacres against protestors are happening in Iran but the western hemisphere is focused on Greenland

Yeah I read about 10,000 dead

people may not like it, but this is probably around the time a foreign intervention is justified

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 2:23 PM

I still doubt he falls without external intervention. Though the last 2 days had more intense protest turnout, tonight was mild and counterprotests in favor of the regime have been bigger. And it seems like they neutralized most Kurdish armed elements with the help of Turkish intelligence agencies. They also used a lot of brute force to suppress the protests in other areas.

But if Khamenei does get killed, I expect a lot of unrest across Iran and the Middle East. Today one of the prominent clerics in Iran warned they would declare a jihad and if enough shia mobilize across the region things will get heated. Moreover, he still has support with about a third of the population including the army and IRGC. Imagine taking down the pope, it'll be something like that for the shia who support him.


Lurs are two groups afaik, one speaks closer to Persian while the others speak closer to Kurdish. They are about equal in number in Luristan. Its probably the Kurdish half they're counting as Kurds.

I don’t think people care about the pope that much lol. Isn’t like 30% of Europe atheist?

 

[Midnight Delight]

I'm not knowledgable enough for that no but I think I can't trust Marxist with this.

Mossadeq?
The Iranian socialist who the CIA overthrew

 

[Logiko]

Mossadeq?
The Iranian socialist who the CIA overthrew

Thx. No I didn't know.

 

[Roo]

No this is literally campism. Treating your parties as a do-no-wrong authority. Form your own opinion. And I think there's more than enough Iranians who've given their view on the situation... as can be seen by the millions protesting on the streets. A party giving their opinion doesn't make it more worth than the clear general sentiment in the country right now which is very clearly anti-Ayatollah.

Imperialist agenda... like come on bro. This isn't sports. These are real human lives. Are we simply gonna ignore everything the Iranian government makes its citizens suffer simply because it happens to be "anti-imperialist" (more like anti-Western really)?

Not everyone in politics is on one side. 99% of parties have both good and bad policies. It's about weighing what is less evil. Sure, if the current regime falls, the newer government might be more pro-Israel (which is wrong) but...

If the political shift:
- Reduces executions
- Ends morality-police violence
- Improves women’s and LGBTQ+ rights
- Stabilizes the economy
- Stops torturing dissidents

Then yes, that is morally preferable, even if that party isn’t perfectly aligned on Israel and America. Pretending otherwise is being dismissive about the lives of millions of Iranians and putting your Western hatred over it.

You're pretty much saying "Your freedom matters less than my geopolitical narrative."

And worst part is, you're not even fighting imperialism then, you're simply fighting another political camp. Because this isn't anti-imperialism, leftism and is definitely NOT solidarity with the Iranian people. It’s aesthetic radicalism where hating the West matters more than actual human lives.

You're a good person Logiko. Don't fall into campism like these far right retards do. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. And honestly, there's only one right conclusion here which is support of the protestors.

Anti west brainrot. In logiko’s world an intervention during the Bosnian genocide is bad because it was lead by NATO/U.S forces

 

[Midnight Delight]

>LGBTQ+ rights
Legit no one in Iran cares about that

 

[Apollo]

I don’t think people care about the pope that much lol. Isn’t like 30% of Europe atheist?

The world has about 1 billion catholics. If the pope was assassinated by a country you can be sure it would cause unrest and a massive shift in opinion against that state.
Besides, the pope doesn't have an army and armed proxies. Ayatollah does. And it does seem like a US strike is imminent.

Yeah I read about 10,000 dead

people may not like it, but this is probably around the time a foreign intervention is justified

Where did that 10K dead figure come from? Latest one today is about 500 dead, 10k imprisoned.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/iran-protests-01-11-26?post-id=cmkanyqwf00003b6q3v5yfepq

10 thousand dead is a massive number and I doubt it reached that. The Mahsa Amini protests in 2022 led to around 600 deaths. I doubt this wave of protests lead to that many deaths.

 

[Roo]

The world has about 1 billion catholics. If the pope was assassinated by a country you can be sure it would cause unrest and a massive shift in opinion against that state.
Besides, the pope doesn't have an army and armed proxies. Ayatollah does. And it does seem like a US strike is imminent.


Where did that 10K dead figure come from? Latest one today is about 500 dead, 10k imprisoned.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/iran-protests-01-11-26?post-id=cmkanyqwf00003b6q3v5yfepq

10 thousand dead is a massive number and I doubt it reached that. The Mahsa Amini protests in 2022 led to around 600 deaths. I doubt this wave of protests lead to that many deaths.

I’ve seen some reports from the intel community on Twitter. It might be overstated tbh

also you over estimate how many people care about religion deeply enough to go into a holy war over it. Even in the Middle Ages the pope had lost power to command armies

 

[Mathias]

>LGBTQ+ rights
Legit no one in Iran cares about that

Yeah because they don't exist over there right ?

 

[Midnight Delight]

I’ve seen some reports from the intel community on Twitter. It might be overstated tbh

also you over estimate how many people care about religion deeply enough to go into a holy war over it. Even in the Middle Ages the pope had lost power to command armies

The Pope only lost power when France betrayed Spain

 

[Apollo]

I’ve seen some reports from the intel community on Twitter. It might be overstated tbh

also you over estimate how many people care about religion deeply enough to go into a holy war over it. Even in the Middle Ages the pope had lost power to command armies

A few things to note:
-In Shia theology, martyrdom is a core theme and mobilizer. Its a long thing that you can read about, but I'd say they focus more on martyrdom narratives than other muslim sects.
-The Ayatollah is the core of the whole axis of resistance and his regime, if he gets killed that means the axis would go into a battle to deal as much damage as possible. Stuff like mining the Hormuz strait or rushing to make a dirty bomb.
-The Papacy in the middle ages could call for intercontinental wars and had armies at its command. While it lost the power in the current era, I liken the Ayatollah to the popes of that age.

 

[Roo]

The Pope only lost power when France betrayed Spain

The pope was losing power as nation states become more sovereign, and that just goes to my point. Nobody nowadays would go to war over the pope being assassinated

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:44 PM

A few things to note:
-In Shia theology, martyrdom is a core theme and mobilizer. Its a long thing that you can read about, but I'd say they focus more on martyrdom narratives than other muslim sects.
-The Ayatollah is the core of the whole axis of resistance and his regime, if he gets killed that means the axis would go into a battle to deal as much damage as possible. Stuff like mining the Hormuz strait or rushing to make a dirty bomb.
-The Papacy in the middle ages could call for intercontinental wars and had armies at its command. While it lost the power in the current era, I liken the Ayatollah to the popes of that age.

Cringe religion shit. And people wonder why atheist have a distaste towards it