Character Discussion Loki for Nakama?
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I think what's telling is that despite Harald's final request before perishing under the weight of Ragnir. Loki sees his way of changing Elbaph as fruitless, especially with how things ended, and despite not being the POS that we were led to believe, it's obvious Loki prefers a Pirate's life over being King of Elbaph, this was true the moment we've met Rocks through him. He doesn't respect the people of Elbaph enough to tell them the truth of Harald's mistakes nor does he seem unwanting of this burden. He arguably like being an outcast amongst them or at the very least has found comfort.
Where as Hajrudin had no choice but to chase glory through piracy the way Dory and Brogy made their name. But he still aims to be king and would be more suitable to continuing Harald's mantle without the WG cucking. The best part is he can still sail as a grand fleet member and diplomat of Elbaph if how much time Harald spent away from his throne is an indicator and the same can be said for Loki if he were to be king.
Where as Hajrudin had no choice but to chase glory through piracy the way Dory and Brogy made their name. But he still aims to be king and would be more suitable to continuing Harald's mantle without the WG cucking. The best part is he can still sail as a grand fleet member and diplomat of Elbaph if how much time Harald spent away from his throne is an indicator and the same can be said for Loki if he were to be king.
Apart from the pretty obvious points that folks have laid out in favor of Loki joining the SHs, one strong narrative indication that Loki joins I think is the flashback we just had, particularly Rocks & Harald’s relationship & potential parallels btw Loki & Luffy in the current time line.
Rocks being this unprecedented charismatic character who tried to challenge the status quo & also someone Loki viewed as Nika at the time, in comparison to Luffy who’s just as charismatic, willing to challenge the status quo & is actually Nika who Loki & the giants revere & admire.
Then we have Harald, this incredibly powerful giant & king of Elbaf who Rocks was in awe with from his very first encounter with him and who he viewed was necessary to have by his side in order to be able to have a chance at challenging the status quo (bcoz of his strength, legendary df on Elbaf gallela etc.) who Rocks asked to join his crew time & time again but ultimately failed in doing so as Harald prioritized his role & responsibilities as the King of Elbaf over his friends ambition. Then there’s Loki who I think parallels Harald as not only is he as impressive as his father strength-wise, he’s also consumed the legendary df of Elbaf which Rocks wanted Harald to consume & it’s strongly implied that he’s going to revive Gallela.
So we basically have Luffy who is Nika & willing to challenge the status quo like Rocks did & then Loki who has consumed the legendary df on Elbaf that Rocks thought was necessary in order to challenge the status quo. Then there’s the fact that like Rocks did Harald, Luffy’s also invited Loki to join his crew so like was the case with Harald, the onus is now on Loki to decide whether he’s going to join Luffy or not ^^
However unlike Harald who had a bear the full responsibility as the King of Elbaf by his lonesome Loki has his half brother Hajrudin who can shoulder that responsibility so Loki isn’t really constrained to Elbaf like Harald was.
Another thing I think is noteworthy is Ida’s comments to Rocks in the flashback, think it was chapter 1157 when he asked Ida to convince Harald to join him, she responded with, ‘if Harald where my son, I’d tell him to choose his friend’. Loki was present when Ida made these comment to Rocks. So I think this comment is going to come full circle in the current time line.
So Loki is most likely going to choose to Luffy as opposed to staying on Elbaf or at the very least that is what I think the narrative is hinting at.
Stuff like size, strength etc. are not really deal breakers imo. They are small caveats to which there are variety of solutions to & funnily enough Blackbeard pirates quite literally tanks those arguments, as for size argument there is Sanjuan Wolf & for the strength argument there’s Kuzan so those arguments don’t really hold any water
Rocks being this unprecedented charismatic character who tried to challenge the status quo & also someone Loki viewed as Nika at the time, in comparison to Luffy who’s just as charismatic, willing to challenge the status quo & is actually Nika who Loki & the giants revere & admire.
Then we have Harald, this incredibly powerful giant & king of Elbaf who Rocks was in awe with from his very first encounter with him and who he viewed was necessary to have by his side in order to be able to have a chance at challenging the status quo (bcoz of his strength, legendary df on Elbaf gallela etc.) who Rocks asked to join his crew time & time again but ultimately failed in doing so as Harald prioritized his role & responsibilities as the King of Elbaf over his friends ambition. Then there’s Loki who I think parallels Harald as not only is he as impressive as his father strength-wise, he’s also consumed the legendary df of Elbaf which Rocks wanted Harald to consume & it’s strongly implied that he’s going to revive Gallela.
So we basically have Luffy who is Nika & willing to challenge the status quo like Rocks did & then Loki who has consumed the legendary df on Elbaf that Rocks thought was necessary in order to challenge the status quo. Then there’s the fact that like Rocks did Harald, Luffy’s also invited Loki to join his crew so like was the case with Harald, the onus is now on Loki to decide whether he’s going to join Luffy or not ^^
However unlike Harald who had a bear the full responsibility as the King of Elbaf by his lonesome Loki has his half brother Hajrudin who can shoulder that responsibility so Loki isn’t really constrained to Elbaf like Harald was.
Another thing I think is noteworthy is Ida’s comments to Rocks in the flashback, think it was chapter 1157 when he asked Ida to convince Harald to join him, she responded with, ‘if Harald where my son, I’d tell him to choose his friend’. Loki was present when Ida made these comment to Rocks. So I think this comment is going to come full circle in the current time line.
So Loki is most likely going to choose to Luffy as opposed to staying on Elbaf or at the very least that is what I think the narrative is hinting at.
Stuff like size, strength etc. are not really deal breakers imo. They are small caveats to which there are variety of solutions to & funnily enough Blackbeard pirates quite literally tanks those arguments, as for size argument there is Sanjuan Wolf & for the strength argument there’s Kuzan so those arguments don’t really hold any water
You dismiss the strength aspect but that is the very critical reason why Yamato did not join and why it took Jimbei 4 arcs after to join. Until Zoro and Sanji are clearly above those that join Loki is not going to be nakama.
He is not joining. I dont understand how many times people forget that Oda will not change the monster trio for anyone.
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He is not joining. I dont understand how many times people forget that Oda will not change the monster trio for anyone.
There are three significant kingdoms that exist as independent factions, and each of them is crucial to Imu’s eventual defeat. These are Fishman Island, Wano, and Elbaf. Their respective representatives, Shirahoshi, Momonosuke, and Loki, are not meant to be subordinates or crew members. They will only ever be allies.
It looks like Oda is even setting up a Loki, and Shirahoshi (Mosa) teamup. The Galleila shipwrights repairing Noah is a correct prediction imo. So...Loki will lead these ancient giants into war, and he will have his own faction. One of the strongest factions in history.
It looks like Oda is even setting up a Loki, and Shirahoshi (Mosa) teamup. The Galleila shipwrights repairing Noah is a correct prediction imo. So...Loki will lead these ancient giants into war, and he will have his own faction. One of the strongest factions in history.
I dismiss the strength reason coz there are multiple examples that prove it isn’t as black and white as you’re making it out to be.
One counter argument to the strength argument I made is the Blackbeard Pirates who are the foil of the SHs. They have Kuzan who at this point is stronger than all the other members of the crew and he’s unlikely to be either Zoro or Sanji’s opponent. I remember folks arguing that it was impossible for Kuzan to have joined the BB Pirates coz he was ‘too strong’ to as such will most likely take up an ally type role but alas! Kuzan is a certified member of the BB Pirates.
(I was part of that crowd as well btw
)
The second argument is Robin.
When she boarded the ship, she didn’t only have a higher bounty than Zoro & Sanji but was also arguably stronger than both so there is precedent for someone stronger or at the very least someone who had ambiguous standing boarding the ship. Hell at that time Robin was grouped together with Zoro & Sanji as the monsters of the crew.
Now I agree with you that when all things are said & done Zoro & Sanji will always be top 2 after Luffy. Same will apply to Zoro & Sanji’s opponents by the time Zoro & Sanji fight them. Hence why Oda insists Shiryu is the No.2 of the BB Pirates even though Kuzan joined.
With regards to Yamato I never for one minute thought she was going to join the SHs and her PL till now is still pretty much still up in the air. Does Yamato beat King for example? I doubt it but I digress. Regardless, if she was ever gonna join the crew, she would’ve. Moreover even on Jinbe, you could argue that his PL in comparison to Zoro & Sanji at the start of Onigashima was ambiguous in the same way Robin was when she joined but things returned to business as usual at the end of the arc.
So yh, the strength argument is not really a strong one for me.
Now if you think Loki’s god tier, one shots Luffy, solos multiple admirals 💀 then I get it lol but I don’t think he is. IMO he’s relative to Luffy at best but that’s just me 🤷🏿♂️
One counter argument to the strength argument I made is the Blackbeard Pirates who are the foil of the SHs. They have Kuzan who at this point is stronger than all the other members of the crew and he’s unlikely to be either Zoro or Sanji’s opponent. I remember folks arguing that it was impossible for Kuzan to have joined the BB Pirates coz he was ‘too strong’ to as such will most likely take up an ally type role but alas! Kuzan is a certified member of the BB Pirates.
(I was part of that crowd as well btw
)The second argument is Robin.
When she boarded the ship, she didn’t only have a higher bounty than Zoro & Sanji but was also arguably stronger than both so there is precedent for someone stronger or at the very least someone who had ambiguous standing boarding the ship. Hell at that time Robin was grouped together with Zoro & Sanji as the monsters of the crew.
Now I agree with you that when all things are said & done Zoro & Sanji will always be top 2 after Luffy. Same will apply to Zoro & Sanji’s opponents by the time Zoro & Sanji fight them. Hence why Oda insists Shiryu is the No.2 of the BB Pirates even though Kuzan joined.
With regards to Yamato I never for one minute thought she was going to join the SHs and her PL till now is still pretty much still up in the air. Does Yamato beat King for example? I doubt it but I digress. Regardless, if she was ever gonna join the crew, she would’ve. Moreover even on Jinbe, you could argue that his PL in comparison to Zoro & Sanji at the start of Onigashima was ambiguous in the same way Robin was when she joined but things returned to business as usual at the end of the arc.
So yh, the strength argument is not really a strong one for me.
Now if you think Loki’s god tier, one shots Luffy, solos multiple admirals 💀 then I get it lol but I don’t think he is. IMO he’s relative to Luffy at best but that’s just me 🤷🏿♂️
I dismiss the strength reason coz there are multiple examples that prove it isn’t as black and white as you’re making it out to be.
One counter argument to the strength argument I made is the Blackbeard Pirates who are the foil of the SHs. They have Kuzan who at this point is stronger than all the other members of the crew and he’s unlikely to be either Zoro or Sanji’s opponent. I remember folks arguing that it was impossible for Kuzan to have joined the BB Pirates coz he was ‘too strong’ to as such will most likely take up an ally type role but alas! Kuzan is a certified member of the BB Pirates.
(I was part of that crowd as well btw )
The second argument is Robin.
When she boarded the ship, she didn’t only have a higher bounty than Zoro & Sanji but was also arguably stronger than both so there is precedent for someone stronger or at the very least someone who had ambiguous standing boarding the ship.
Now I agree with you that when all things are said & done Zoro & Sanji will always be top 2 after Luffy. Same will apply to Zoro & Sanji’s opponents by the time Zoro & Sanji fight them. Hence why Oda insists Shiryu is the No.2 of the BB Pirates even though Kuzan joined.
With regards to Yamato I never for one minute thought she was going to join the SHs and her PL till now is still pretty much still up in the air. Does Yamato beat King for example? I doubt it but I digress. Regardless, if she was ever gonna join the crew, she would’ve. Moreover even on Jinbe, you could argue that his PL in comparison to Zoro & Sanji at the start of Onigashima was ambiguous in the same way Robin was when she joined but things returned to business as usual at the end of the arc.
So yh, the strength argument is not really a strong one for me.
Now if you think Loki’s god tier, one shots Luffy, solos multiple admirals 💀 then I get it lol but I don’t think he is. IMO he’s relative to Luffy at best but that’s just me 🤷🏿♂️
One counter argument to the strength argument I made is the Blackbeard Pirates who are the foil of the SHs. They have Kuzan who at this point is stronger than all the other members of the crew and he’s unlikely to be either Zoro or Sanji’s opponent. I remember folks arguing that it was impossible for Kuzan to have joined the BB Pirates coz he was ‘too strong’ to as such will most likely take up an ally type role but alas! Kuzan is a certified member of the BB Pirates.
(I was part of that crowd as well btw
)The second argument is Robin.
When she boarded the ship, she didn’t only have a higher bounty than Zoro & Sanji but was also arguably stronger than both so there is precedent for someone stronger or at the very least someone who had ambiguous standing boarding the ship.
Now I agree with you that when all things are said & done Zoro & Sanji will always be top 2 after Luffy. Same will apply to Zoro & Sanji’s opponents by the time Zoro & Sanji fight them. Hence why Oda insists Shiryu is the No.2 of the BB Pirates even though Kuzan joined.
With regards to Yamato I never for one minute thought she was going to join the SHs and her PL till now is still pretty much still up in the air. Does Yamato beat King for example? I doubt it but I digress. Regardless, if she was ever gonna join the crew, she would’ve. Moreover even on Jinbe, you could argue that his PL in comparison to Zoro & Sanji at the start of Onigashima was ambiguous in the same way Robin was when she joined but things returned to business as usual at the end of the arc.
So yh, the strength argument is not really a strong one for me.
Now if you think Loki’s god tier, one shots Luffy, solos multiple admirals 💀 then I get it lol but I don’t think he is. IMO he’s relative to Luffy at best but that’s just me 🤷🏿♂️
You should already know my argument on this so I'm not going to debate it for the nth time but this is a summary of it.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...oilers-discussion.77261/page-174#post-6523673
I honestly don't see any value in debating this issue as I don't think Oda cares enough about it. The man is a snake-oil salesman and honestly I'm shocked this fanbase is once again falling hook line and center for the scam but I digress.
We'll see at the end of the arc
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...oilers-discussion.77261/page-174#post-6523673
I honestly don't see any value in debating this issue as I don't think Oda cares enough about it. The man is a snake-oil salesman and honestly I'm shocked this fanbase is once again falling hook line and center for the scam
but I digress.We'll see at the end of the arc
You should already know my argument on this so I'm not going to debate it for the nth time but this is a summary of it.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...oilers-discussion.77261/page-174#post-6523673
I honestly don't see any value in debating this issue as I don't think Oda cares enough about it. The man is a snake-oil salesman and honestly I'm shocked this fanbase is once again falling hook line and center for the scam but I digress.
We'll see at the end of the arc
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...oilers-discussion.77261/page-174#post-6523673
I honestly don't see any value in debating this issue as I don't think Oda cares enough about it. The man is a snake-oil salesman and honestly I'm shocked this fanbase is once again falling hook line and center for the scam
but I digress.We'll see at the end of the arc
I mean if I'm wrong I'll put up my hands and take the L but my comments are based off of precendent.
There's a reason why a shit ton of fans dropped this series post-wano and why even a lot of people that are still debating on here don't even read the chapters and only read spoilers
Again I've made this argument several times but there's a few narrative constrainsts on Loki that indicate that he might not be as strong as he is perceived to be and I'm of the opinion that narrative will always trump feats when all things are said and done but I digress, again we'll see at the end of the arc. It'll be very interesting to see how folks on your end internalize Shanks > Loki or Loki joining the SHs come end of the arc. All I know is that I don't wanna hear Oda is a quack from any of y'all as the signs have always been there you just chose to ignore them
There's a reason why a shit ton of fans dropped this series post-wano and why even a lot of people that are still debating on here don't even read the chapters and only read spoilers
Again I've made this argument several times but there's a few narrative constrainsts on Loki that indicate that he might not be as strong as he is perceived to be and I'm of the opinion that narrative will always trump feats when all things are said and done but I digress, again we'll see at the end of the arc. It'll be very interesting to see how folks on your end internalize Shanks > Loki or Loki joining the SHs come end of the arc. All I know is that I don't wanna hear Oda is a quack from any of y'all as the signs have always been there you just chose to ignore them
He'll join the Grand Fleet as the Co-Captain of the New Giant Warrior Pirates. There's a reason why so much importance was put on the relationship between Loki and Hajrudin.
He beat Herald that gave up and didn't fight back and was in a wreaked not fully taken over state as he stated himself, and Ragnir most likely has special powers that let him bypass the immortality.
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He beat Herald that gave up and didn't fight back and was in a wreaked not fully taken over state as he stated himself, and Ragnir most likely has special powers that let him bypass the immortality.
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Broski...
You think Hadrujin and Loki fit the Dorry/Broggy dynamic?
Or that Loki doesn't look out of place in a line up of Cabbage, Batrolomeo, Sai, Leo etc?
I see the ally angle and I'm in disagreement with it for several reasons but if you wanna argue this angle you gotta at least try to make an argument like the one below coz there's no way that Loki is going to be lined amongst those scrubs.
Oda should just kill his character now if that's the direction
You think Hadrujin and Loki fit the Dorry/Broggy dynamic?
Or that Loki doesn't look out of place in a line up of Cabbage, Batrolomeo, Sai, Leo etc?
I see the ally angle and I'm in disagreement with it for several reasons but if you wanna argue this angle you gotta at least try to make an argument like the one below coz there's no way that Loki is going to be lined amongst those scrubs.
Oda should just kill his character now if that's the direction
Broski...
You think Hadrujin and Loki fit the Dorry/Broggy dynamic?
Or that Loki doesn't look out of place in a line up of Cabbage, Batrolomeo, Sai, Leo etc?
I see the ally angle and I'm in disagreement with it for several reasons but if you wanna argue this angle you gotta at least try to make an argument like this coz there's no way that Loki is going to be lined amongst those scrubs.
Oda should just kill his character now if that's the direction
You think Hadrujin and Loki fit the Dorry/Broggy dynamic?
Or that Loki doesn't look out of place in a line up of Cabbage, Batrolomeo, Sai, Leo etc?
I see the ally angle and I'm in disagreement with it for several reasons but if you wanna argue this angle you gotta at least try to make an argument like this coz there's no way that Loki is going to be lined amongst those scrubs.
Oda should just kill his character now if that's the direction