General & Others Who was stronger for Most of The Series? Sasuke or Naruto?
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Hmm.
Sasuke stronger: Land of Waves —> Water Tank / Gaara fight
Naruto stronger: Water tank / Gaara fight until Sasuke retrieval when the curse mark evolves
Sasuke stronger: End of part 1 all the way until Pain Arc
Naruto stronger: Pain Arc and onwards
Technically Naruto is stronger for a greater number of chapters but Sasuke is stronger for a longer amount of time in-verse, if we’re ending at the end of Shippuden
Sasuke stronger: Land of Waves —> Water Tank / Gaara fight
Naruto stronger: Water tank / Gaara fight until Sasuke retrieval when the curse mark evolves
Sasuke stronger: End of part 1 all the way until Pain Arc
Naruto stronger: Pain Arc and onwards
Technically Naruto is stronger for a greater number of chapters but Sasuke is stronger for a longer amount of time in-verse, if we’re ending at the end of Shippuden
If we're going in-verse time, Sasuke literally has years in the academy and the timeskip. If we're going by number of chapters, it may not feel like the correct answer is Naruto, but the correct answer is Naruto.
Preskip Naruto has 238 chapters.
In chapters 100 to 104, Naruto defeats Neji. By this time, he not only has his Summoning jutsu, but he can access and use a portion of Kurama's chakra at will. At this point, it's fair to say Naruto was at least equal to Sasuke, if not already superior.
By chapter 138, Naruto defeats Gaara. Soon after he learns the Rasengan. Sasuke draws close with the Cursed Seal, but in the end, Naruto still spared him and he never used his Summoning technique.
For most of preskip, Naruto was stronger.
Post-skip starts with chapter 245.
Sasuke is stronger than Naruto until he learns Sage Mode. The Naruto that showed up to fight Pain in chapter 430 was stronger than Sasuke. After this, Naruto remains stronger for the remainder of the series.
Preskip Naruto has 238 chapters.
In chapters 100 to 104, Naruto defeats Neji. By this time, he not only has his Summoning jutsu, but he can access and use a portion of Kurama's chakra at will. At this point, it's fair to say Naruto was at least equal to Sasuke, if not already superior.
By chapter 138, Naruto defeats Gaara. Soon after he learns the Rasengan. Sasuke draws close with the Cursed Seal, but in the end, Naruto still spared him and he never used his Summoning technique.
For most of preskip, Naruto was stronger.
Post-skip starts with chapter 245.
Sasuke is stronger than Naruto until he learns Sage Mode. The Naruto that showed up to fight Pain in chapter 430 was stronger than Sasuke. After this, Naruto remains stronger for the remainder of the series.
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Preskip Naruto has 238 chapters.
In chapters 100 to 104, Naruto defeats Neji. By this time, he not only has his Summoning jutsu, but he can access use a portion of Kurama's chakra at will. At this point, it's fair to say Naruto was at least equal to Sasuke, if not already superior.
By chapter 138, Naruto defeats Gaara. Soon after he learns the Rasengan. Sasuke draws close with the Cursed Seal, but in the end, Naruto still spared him and he never used his Summoning technique.
For most of preskip, Naruto was stronger.
In chapters 100 to 104, Naruto defeats Neji. By this time, he not only has his Summoning jutsu, but he can access use a portion of Kurama's chakra at will. At this point, it's fair to say Naruto was at least equal to Sasuke, if not already superior.
By chapter 138, Naruto defeats Gaara. Soon after he learns the Rasengan. Sasuke draws close with the Cursed Seal, but in the end, Naruto still spared him and he never used his Summoning technique.
For most of preskip, Naruto was stronger.
As for the nine tails chakra, the amount he could use at that point at will wasn't even enough to allow him to clearly overpower Neji. It's a great boost, but it doesn't bail Naruto out against Sasuke, since his base at this point was a Kiba rival.
I think you can argue that Sasuke's superiority existed until Naruto learned Rasengan, because despite the fact that he beat Neji and Gaara, and that Orochimaru and Jiraiya should know about this, they talk about it like Sasuke is currently superior.
Notably, while Jiraiya disagrees with Orochimaru that talent isn't everything, he never claims that Orochimaru is completely wrong that at this point in the story, his skills are a bit mediocre. And as Orochimaru points out, there dynamic is similar to the one between the two Sanin as a kid, with Orochimaru being superior. It's only after seeing Naruto destroy the larger water tank after Naruto learns Rasengan that Naruto can definitively be considered above him in part 1, imo, it's his big "surpassing his rival" moment, that really made Sasuke insecure enough to leave Konoha.
I'm not as knowledgeable about part 2, but even at the 5ks, Naruto does believe that he and Sasuke could end up killing eachother, so I'm not really sure sage mode is enough to put him definitively above MS Sasuke, but I can agree to disagree on that one.
Pre series start its sasuke
Naruto is predominantly the stronger one in Part 1, thats alot of the motivation of Sasukes actually comes from, and i dont just mean the hospital scene either, despite what the outside perception is from alot of inuniverse characters, sasuke himself thinks so
In part 2 its reversed and naruto is doing the catching up till basiacly the end
im not microscaling is but basiacly from the major story beats
Naruto is predominantly the stronger one in Part 1, thats alot of the motivation of Sasukes actually comes from, and i dont just mean the hospital scene either, despite what the outside perception is from alot of inuniverse characters, sasuke himself thinks so
In part 2 its reversed and naruto is doing the catching up till basiacly the end
im not microscaling is but basiacly from the major story beats
Summons are part of a shinobi's strength, no different than Kiba's hounds or Shino's insects. Whether Naruto could consistently summon Gamabunta on his first try or not, he has the chakra to spare to try again and Sasuke has no real way of stopping him from doing it.
Gamabunta thought twice about tangling with a Tailed Beast because that thing is a mortal threat. Preskip Sasuke was not.
It was enough to overpower Neji. The only reason their clash sent them both flying was because of the way Kaiten redirects chakra.
What you're missing is that it didn't actually work. Naruto was digging a tunnel as soon as he hit the ground and then finished Neji. If Neji hadn't used Kaiten, he would've got a far worse beating.
Sasuke has no Kaiten to redirect chakra. In fact, he doesn't have enough chakra to fight an extended period, or use Chidori more than just a few times. He doesn't have physical advantages or stamina to win against a Kurama-enhanced Naruto.
Sasuke's hype was tied to his clan legacy and a Sharingan he hadn't even matured yet.
As for Naruto's talent, I think we can stop pretending Kishimoto's dialogue matched what he showed us.
As if stealing the scroll wasn't impressive enough, Naruto learned Shadow Clones in a matter of hours. He learned the Rasengan in a week. Created the Rasenshuriken in a matter of weeks. It took him a week to master Sage Mode and he came back with several new jutsu.
Before all of that, he kept pace with Sasuke on tree-walking.
Naruto was disadvantaged in chakra control for most of his life, but he never lacked for cunning or IQ.
Underdog or no, Naruto's talent is undeniable. I'd say he is arguably the most gifted shinobi in history. Just imagine where he would have been if he had received proper tutelage from a young age.
Naruto's fruity little suicide pact with Sasuke has always been rooted in sentimentality.
If he wanted blood, this rivalry would look very different.
Gamabunta thought twice about tangling with a Tailed Beast because that thing is a mortal threat. Preskip Sasuke was not.
It was enough to overpower Neji. The only reason their clash sent them both flying was because of the way Kaiten redirects chakra.
What you're missing is that it didn't actually work. Naruto was digging a tunnel as soon as he hit the ground and then finished Neji. If Neji hadn't used Kaiten, he would've got a far worse beating.
Sasuke has no Kaiten to redirect chakra. In fact, he doesn't have enough chakra to fight an extended period, or use Chidori more than just a few times. He doesn't have physical advantages or stamina to win against a Kurama-enhanced Naruto.
Sasuke's hype was tied to his clan legacy and a Sharingan he hadn't even matured yet.
As for Naruto's talent, I think we can stop pretending Kishimoto's dialogue matched what he showed us.
As if stealing the scroll wasn't impressive enough, Naruto learned Shadow Clones in a matter of hours. He learned the Rasengan in a week. Created the Rasenshuriken in a matter of weeks. It took him a week to master Sage Mode and he came back with several new jutsu.
Before all of that, he kept pace with Sasuke on tree-walking.
Naruto was disadvantaged in chakra control for most of his life, but he never lacked for cunning or IQ.
Underdog or no, Naruto's talent is undeniable. I'd say he is arguably the most gifted shinobi in history. Just imagine where he would have been if he had received proper tutelage from a young age.
Naruto's fruity little suicide pact with Sasuke has always been rooted in sentimentality.
If he wanted blood, this rivalry would look very different.
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I don't disagree that Ninjas can use summons in fights, but it does seem like it's portrayed that Gamabunta is someone Naruto can only summon when amped by a potential fear of death(when he was falling off the cliff), or when he was amped by a fear of Sakura dying(it was specifically mentioned that he got stronger at that point then he usually does. We've seen him not be able to do so in situations where he could have definitely used it like in the fight against Orochimaru/Kabuto in the Tsunade arc. Tbh, this kind of feels like an inconsistent plot thing, but if we get full on arcs after the Chunin exams where Naruto pulls it off again, it feels fair to say that it isn't a reliable part of his fighting style.
After checking, you probably have a point that Gamabunta was just being Tsundere about not wanting to fight a tailed beasts, but he also doesn't seem like the type to show up in a minor mission or a clash with a rookie Sasuke. Having respect from your summon seems to be part of the process(for example, Kabuto is worried about Manda because he thinks Manda won't listen to him, or armless Orochimaru). Kishi probably thinks of him as Narutos loyal summon only by the pain arc, at which point Naruto was stronger.
You have a point here tbh. Naruto could probably overpower base Sasuke in cqc at this point, but with the Curse Mark that he got around the same time Naruto starts to tap into the nine tails chakra, he should be able to keep up, which is ultimately what did happen.
I can agree that Naruto is a prodigy himself, but it is clear portrayal, and by the standards of part 1, he isn't necessarily the top dog of the child prodigies. You would have something like:
Haku/Kimmimaro
Gaara/Sasuke(Gaara didn't really train before the retrieval arc, which leads to him getting a good bit stronger, as mentioned by Lee)
Naruto/Neji/
Rock Lee/maybe the sound 4?
And let's keep in mind, Orochimaru lived in Konoha for like 30ish years, and only Sasuke and Itachi were shown impressing him among the Uchiha clan, so it's not the clan alone that made Sasuke special
so yeah, imo Orochimaru is having a bit of cartoonishly high standards, but Imo it's similar to Kaido saying that Luffy is weak at the start of the Chunin exams, it just shows how much room he will have to grow. In Orochimaru's mind, nothing he's seen from Naruto up to that point was impressive, or worth Jiraiya spending his time, even after he beat Neji or Gaara, while knowing he has the nine tails and is minato's son.
We also know that he actually starts seeing Naruto as a potential threat after he gets the Rasengan
so it's not like he isn't being objective based on what he's seen. Which again fits with the idea that Naruto only became stronger then Sasuke after learning the Rasengan.
Kabuto also reiterates the same thing, with him also saying that Sasuke couldn't be taken down by Naruto at that point, and like Orochimaru he watched him fight Neji, and Kabuto isn't as delusional as Orochimaru either.
I feel like when you have 2 statements like this from different characters, we gotta admit that at this point, Sasuke was at least a bit ahead.
Fair enough, but it's not like MS Sasuke didn't try challenging all the 5 Kage and ended up killing one, I wouldn't exactly classify him as a fraud thriving due to Naruto's mercy at that point in the manga.
After checking, you probably have a point that Gamabunta was just being Tsundere about not wanting to fight a tailed beasts, but he also doesn't seem like the type to show up in a minor mission or a clash with a rookie Sasuke. Having respect from your summon seems to be part of the process(for example, Kabuto is worried about Manda because he thinks Manda won't listen to him, or armless Orochimaru). Kishi probably thinks of him as Narutos loyal summon only by the pain arc, at which point Naruto was stronger.
You have a point here tbh. Naruto could probably overpower base Sasuke in cqc at this point, but with the Curse Mark that he got around the same time Naruto starts to tap into the nine tails chakra, he should be able to keep up, which is ultimately what did happen.
I can agree that Naruto is a prodigy himself, but it is clear portrayal, and by the standards of part 1, he isn't necessarily the top dog of the child prodigies. You would have something like:
Haku/Kimmimaro
Gaara/Sasuke(Gaara didn't really train before the retrieval arc, which leads to him getting a good bit stronger, as mentioned by Lee)
Naruto/Neji/
Rock Lee/maybe the sound 4?
And let's keep in mind, Orochimaru lived in Konoha for like 30ish years, and only Sasuke and Itachi were shown impressing him among the Uchiha clan, so it's not the clan alone that made Sasuke special
so yeah, imo Orochimaru is having a bit of cartoonishly high standards, but Imo it's similar to Kaido saying that Luffy is weak at the start of the Chunin exams, it just shows how much room he will have to grow. In Orochimaru's mind, nothing he's seen from Naruto up to that point was impressive, or worth Jiraiya spending his time, even after he beat Neji or Gaara, while knowing he has the nine tails and is minato's son.
We also know that he actually starts seeing Naruto as a potential threat after he gets the Rasengan
so it's not like he isn't being objective based on what he's seen. Which again fits with the idea that Naruto only became stronger then Sasuke after learning the Rasengan.
Kabuto also reiterates the same thing, with him also saying that Sasuke couldn't be taken down by Naruto at that point, and like Orochimaru he watched him fight Neji, and Kabuto isn't as delusional as Orochimaru either.
I feel like when you have 2 statements like this from different characters, we gotta admit that at this point, Sasuke was at least a bit ahead.
Fair enough, but it's not like MS Sasuke didn't try challenging all the 5 Kage and ended up killing one, I wouldn't exactly classify him as a fraud thriving due to Naruto's mercy at that point in the manga.
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No they weren’t, Zetsu the intel gathering guy outright stated Naruto’s stronger than Sasuke after acquiring Sage mode. Naruto then goes ahead and gets CM and soloes the entire war on his own basically, a feat EMS sasuke wouldnt be able to replicate.
sasuke himself feels inferior when he sees KCM Naruto, and when they fight he outright steals Naruto’s power to match a self nerfed Naruto
that’s a span of 300 or so chapters of Naruto dominance. I don’t think people really stop and think how long the shinobi war was
sasuke himself feels inferior when he sees KCM Naruto, and when they fight he outright steals Naruto’s power to match a self nerfed Naruto
that’s a span of 300 or so chapters of Naruto dominance. I don’t think people really stop and think how long the shinobi war was