Questions & Mysteries How Ratatoskr fused with Ragnir?
- Thread starter Kishido
- Start date
I kind of want to see what the official translation says. Because this does seem to be a odd situation.
One translation says Ratatoskr "possessed" Ragnir. And another says the Squirrel "transferred" himself in to the Hammer. So, it kind of sounds like it's a "ghost" situation. With the spirit of the animal inhabiting the object.
Jarul's legend says that the "War God" had a rivalry with the "Sun God". Personally, I think it's likely that the "War God" is the original Elbaf. The "War God Elbaf" that Dorry and Brogy told us about WAAAAY back in Chapter 119. The "Sun God" doesn't NEED to be Nika, it could be another reincarnation, but it's probably Nika, since that's the easiest assumption to make right now. And this entire "rivalry" seems to parallel the fight described in the Chapter 1138 Mural between the Sun and Earth Gods. So, it seems possible that Jarul's legend IS the war between the Earth and Sun Gods that happened in the First World. Which would likely predate the invention of Devil Fruits, since that may have happened during the Second World. Which means, whatever happened, it probably would have had to happen without Devil Fruits. So, neither Nika nor "Elbaf" had Devil Fruits as the source of their powers. It was likely something that predated that, whatever that could be.
We still don't know how objects "eat" Devil Fruits. And Devil Fruits are...kind of like "souls". They're the wishes and desires of the people who made them. And I've always imagined that you get a object to "eat" a Devil Fruit by soaking the object in the Devil Fruit's "fruit juice".
So, and this might be a little dark for One Piece, but what I'm imagining is that Ratatoskr killed himself after his Master the "War God" died. And then his blood seeped into his Master's Hammer, Ragnir. And that's how Ratatoskr's "soul" got transferred into the Hammer. Ratatoskr's "ghost" is possessing the Hammer.
Now, this could be something else. The First World may have had some sort of advanced technology that allowed someone to put their minds into objects...somehow. This could be less of a "ghost" situation, and more of a "cyborg" situation. With "souls" being able to be "captured" in metal, artificially. Most of the objects that we've seen that have "eaten" Devil Fruits are made of metal, or react with metal. These "Inanimate Zoan Users/Devil Fruit Infused Objects" could basically be the ancient technology equivalent of robots. More on that over here:
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/did-haki-always-exisit.78844/#post-6584951
Even Kuma is a possible example of this. He's supposed to be "dead", but he's still walking around in a big, metal body. So, it's possible that Ratatoskr has a power similar to the Buccanneers. He may have used some power we don't know about to "imprint" his mind onto a metallic object. "Engraving" his soul into the metal of the hammer.
Oda seems to be doing something with metal. Kuma, Robots, the Inanimate Zoans, Swords...they're probably all connected somehow.
But, we'll see. I could be on the completely wrong track with all this. But, Oda's planting the seeds for SOMETHING here. And I think this probably all goes back to the First World, one way or another.
One translation says Ratatoskr "possessed" Ragnir. And another says the Squirrel "transferred" himself in to the Hammer. So, it kind of sounds like it's a "ghost" situation. With the spirit of the animal inhabiting the object.
Jarul's legend says that the "War God" had a rivalry with the "Sun God". Personally, I think it's likely that the "War God" is the original Elbaf. The "War God Elbaf" that Dorry and Brogy told us about WAAAAY back in Chapter 119. The "Sun God" doesn't NEED to be Nika, it could be another reincarnation, but it's probably Nika, since that's the easiest assumption to make right now. And this entire "rivalry" seems to parallel the fight described in the Chapter 1138 Mural between the Sun and Earth Gods. So, it seems possible that Jarul's legend IS the war between the Earth and Sun Gods that happened in the First World. Which would likely predate the invention of Devil Fruits, since that may have happened during the Second World. Which means, whatever happened, it probably would have had to happen without Devil Fruits. So, neither Nika nor "Elbaf" had Devil Fruits as the source of their powers. It was likely something that predated that, whatever that could be.
We still don't know how objects "eat" Devil Fruits. And Devil Fruits are...kind of like "souls". They're the wishes and desires of the people who made them. And I've always imagined that you get a object to "eat" a Devil Fruit by soaking the object in the Devil Fruit's "fruit juice".
So, and this might be a little dark for One Piece, but what I'm imagining is that Ratatoskr killed himself after his Master the "War God" died. And then his blood seeped into his Master's Hammer, Ragnir. And that's how Ratatoskr's "soul" got transferred into the Hammer. Ratatoskr's "ghost" is possessing the Hammer.
Now, this could be something else. The First World may have had some sort of advanced technology that allowed someone to put their minds into objects...somehow. This could be less of a "ghost" situation, and more of a "cyborg" situation. With "souls" being able to be "captured" in metal, artificially. Most of the objects that we've seen that have "eaten" Devil Fruits are made of metal, or react with metal. These "Inanimate Zoan Users/Devil Fruit Infused Objects" could basically be the ancient technology equivalent of robots. More on that over here:
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/did-haki-always-exisit.78844/#post-6584951
Even Kuma is a possible example of this. He's supposed to be "dead", but he's still walking around in a big, metal body. So, it's possible that Ratatoskr has a power similar to the Buccanneers. He may have used some power we don't know about to "imprint" his mind onto a metallic object. "Engraving" his soul into the metal of the hammer.
Oda seems to be doing something with metal. Kuma, Robots, the Inanimate Zoans, Swords...they're probably all connected somehow.
But, we'll see. I could be on the completely wrong track with all this. But, Oda's planting the seeds for SOMETHING here. And I think this probably all goes back to the First World, one way or another.
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Maybe same situation like Kuma, the soul just never reincarnates but returns back to the body. Ratatoskr's body is rotting, so it possessed the hammer instead. For Kuma case, he is special because he is a cyborg.
Another possibility is the Galleila giants transfer the soul to the hammer. However it would be weird why they didn't do the same with God of War.
Maybe it's only exclusive to buccaneer race. The ancient people learnt about it and created a bunch of ageless creatures. An ancient giant can live up to 300 years old, so it seems impossible for any animal to live longer than that. The Galleila giants learnt that and transfer Ratatoskr to the hammer.
Another possibility is the Galleila giants transfer the soul to the hammer. However it would be weird why they didn't do the same with God of War.
Maybe it's only exclusive to buccaneer race. The ancient people learnt about it and created a bunch of ageless creatures. An ancient giant can live up to 300 years old, so it seems impossible for any animal to live longer than that. The Galleila giants learnt that and transfer Ratatoskr to the hammer.
Good ass question it also begs the question what other weapons might be possessed?
Is Shushi possessed by Ryuma?
Is Yoru possessed by an ancient spirit? A ancient Duck?
Kaido said he noticed Odens aura/spirit within Enma when Zoro used it what if apart of Odens spirit is in Enma?
While This is a cool concept I think Oda should of introduced this a long time ago, Oda keeps giving us more questions and not answering the ones we have
Is Shushi possessed by Ryuma?
Is Yoru possessed by an ancient spirit? A ancient Duck?
Kaido said he noticed Odens aura/spirit within Enma when Zoro used it what if apart of Odens spirit is in Enma?
While This is a cool concept I think Oda should of introduced this a long time ago, Oda keeps giving us more questions and not answering the ones we have
My theory is you capture that 2g of whatever using a seastone device and kinda implement in into whatever weapon you wish. The seastone functions as inert compound but also as emulsifier.
It probably happens in nature too when the conditions fit and the AK just copied it, just like our modern science does. And VP copied it from them.
After all, when df users die those 2g automatically get pulled into the nearest fruit as well.
That makes the Klabautermann lore even more mysterious. Ratatoskr being an animal is one thing, but already starting off as a Spirit. I mean how did it even come into existence in the first place?
This would all go back to the old discussion about real magic existing in the one-piece world.
This would all go back to the old discussion about real magic existing in the one-piece world.
My gut says that Klabautermann are related to this process, but not quite the same. "Cousins" as it were.
In my head, the difference is how many people are "engraving" their souls into the object.
Most of the other examples of objects with "souls" inside of them only involve ONE strong willed person "engraving" their soul into the object. One person, "engraving" one soul, into one object.
But, Klabautermann are different just due to the fact that the entire crew of the ship is involved in the process. Every member of the crew puts a little piece of their heart and soul into the same object, together. Maybe because they're all working together, it allows them to "engrave" their souls into objects that aren't metal?
If it's just one person working by themselves, they NEED to use a "hard" object like metal in order to keep their soul inside the object.
But, if a bunch of people work together, all the different "soul pieces" end up helping to keep each other together, knitting together in a way, so they can be transferred into a "softer" object, like wood. Each soul "holding on" to each other.
It could basically be another form of "The Power of Love" that we keep hearing about in the story. From what I can tell so far, "Love" requires multiple people to work together towards the same goal. "Group Haki" is the way that I think about it personally. So, Klabautermann would be a natural product of that "Love". A "child" born from a crew's "Love" for each other, and their ship. A combination of all their souls working together, towards a common goal. A manifestation of their shared dream.
...Which is SUPER CHEESY, I'll admit. But, I think something along these lines is possibly what Oda is going for. Hopefully, we see Klabautermann come back into the story, eventually. (Which isn't impossible, if The Man Marked By Flames turns out to be Roger's ship the Oro Jackson, like I think it could be. But, that's a theory for another time.)
Part of me wonders if Seastone could also be involved in this?
Now, Seastone isn't necessarily a metal. But, it does get TREATED a lot like a metal, in most cases. It's exceptionally hard. It's used in objects that you would expect to be made of metal, like handcuffs and weapons and even the undersides of Marine ships. So, at the very least, I think it can work as a form of metal for this process.
So, it's not impossible that Seastone has it's effects on Devil Fruit users, because all Seastone is "engraved" with the soul of someone or possibly a group of people. The power to weaken Devil Fruit Users may come from some "spirit" within the metal. Maybe the Sea God? Or maybe the Dragon race? Or maybe some sort of Demon King, like Tot Musica? Someone with a grudge against Devil Fruit Users, who would want to hurt or control them.
Whoever it is, it's probably someone or something "imprisoned" in the center of the planet. Because one thing that's important about Seastone is that it's released from volcanoes. So, my pet theory is, something is frozen in the center of the planet. After the "Forbidden Sun" was mined, something was imprisoned in the empty "quarry" that got left behind, and frozen. And the "steam" from them slowly unthawing is what's "infecting" rocks and minerals and metals with their properties, turning them into Seastone.
I don't know, stuff to think about. Again, I could be on the wrong track with ALL of this. But, there's enough going on with souls and metal that I think Oda is going to end up revealing something along these lines.
The swords are kind of interesting to think about. Because, they're probably the part of this that's the most important to the story. The Swords get a lot of backstory, and lore, and focus. So, chances are, Oda has a plan for the Swords, specifically, if this all turns out to be true. The Swords are probably going to be the ones to pay this off, if this ever happens.
Chances are, most Swordsmen don't "engrave" their souls into their Swords, simply because they don't actually know it's possible. If you don't think about actively doing it, it might not be possible to actually do. Chances are, this is all a bit of a "lost art". People in the past probably knew how to do it. But, over time the technique was lost. Or maybe actively suppressed, if Imu or someone didn't like "commoners" knowing about this technique.
It would kind of explain why the different Sword-Grades are important, though. Higher quality swords are more easily able to get "engraved" and keep spirits inside them longer. The stronger the sword, the more effective it is at "channeling" a soul.
The goal of a Swordsman would then be...to literally "become one with your sword". Which...sounds cool, anyway. It sounds like a pretty good goal for a Swordsman to have.
What I find interesting, though, is that most of the Meito Blades are VERY old. Which means, most of the Meito Blades have had multiple wielders. Which could mean, these Meito Blades aren't just "engraved" with ONE soul. They could be "engraved" with little bits and pieces of MULTIPLE souls. Every strong Swordsman who's wielded them over the last 1000 years may have left behind a little piece of their soul within these blades.
Which raises a question of what would happen if those different bits and pieces of souls don't get along? If a Klaubatermann is formed from a crew working together towards a common goal on their ship...what would happen if the opposite happened? What if, say, one Swordsman killed another one, and then stole his Sword and used it for himself? If a Sword is "engraved" by two or more souls that HATE each other and are constantly fighting each other...that would probably drive the Sword insane! So, I wonder if that could be the origin of some of the "Cursed Blades" we've seen in the series. "Cursed Blades" could be Swords who have been "engraved" by people who don't get along at all.
Which would make what Zoro's trying to do with his Cursed Blades kind of interesting. Because, if you think about it that way, Zoro's not just trying to tame a single "problem child". Zoro's kind of like a military commander trying to whip a entire "squad" of fighting roughnecks into a lean, mean fighting force. Zoro's trying to "train" a bunch of quarreling mountain bandits into a defensive militia. Zoro's not just a Swordsman...he's a "Shogun"! Someone trying to get a group of feuding warriors to work together with him, towards his goal. Trying to "convince" the multiple souls within his Swords to all work with him, as their new leader.
That's probably not where Oda's going with it. But, it's interesting to think about. Plus...it's interesting to think about what this could mean for the future. Because, if we get a sequel to One Piece that flashes forward 100 or more years, that would mean everyone we know would be dead. But...Zoro might not be totally "gone". Especially, if he ends up succeeding in making his own Black Blade. Because then...Zoro's "soul" could still be around in the future, inside one of his swords! I do not envy whoever ends up wielding a blade like that, constantly ordering you around. But, that could be part of the fun, for the story! Plus, if the Wado is the one that becomes a Black Blade...there may be a little piece of Kuina inside of the sword, too, that could live together with Zoro's soul. Finally reunited in the "afterlife" together. That may be too corny, but...I like it.
So, yeah, there are things Oda could do with this idea in the story. We'll see if any of them actually happen. But, be on the lookout. We might see more seeds for this idea, down the line.
Chances are, most Swordsmen don't "engrave" their souls into their Swords, simply because they don't actually know it's possible. If you don't think about actively doing it, it might not be possible to actually do. Chances are, this is all a bit of a "lost art". People in the past probably knew how to do it. But, over time the technique was lost. Or maybe actively suppressed, if Imu or someone didn't like "commoners" knowing about this technique.
It would kind of explain why the different Sword-Grades are important, though. Higher quality swords are more easily able to get "engraved" and keep spirits inside them longer. The stronger the sword, the more effective it is at "channeling" a soul.
The goal of a Swordsman would then be...to literally "become one with your sword". Which...sounds cool, anyway. It sounds like a pretty good goal for a Swordsman to have.
What I find interesting, though, is that most of the Meito Blades are VERY old. Which means, most of the Meito Blades have had multiple wielders. Which could mean, these Meito Blades aren't just "engraved" with ONE soul. They could be "engraved" with little bits and pieces of MULTIPLE souls. Every strong Swordsman who's wielded them over the last 1000 years may have left behind a little piece of their soul within these blades.
Which raises a question of what would happen if those different bits and pieces of souls don't get along? If a Klaubatermann is formed from a crew working together towards a common goal on their ship...what would happen if the opposite happened? What if, say, one Swordsman killed another one, and then stole his Sword and used it for himself? If a Sword is "engraved" by two or more souls that HATE each other and are constantly fighting each other...that would probably drive the Sword insane! So, I wonder if that could be the origin of some of the "Cursed Blades" we've seen in the series. "Cursed Blades" could be Swords who have been "engraved" by people who don't get along at all.
Which would make what Zoro's trying to do with his Cursed Blades kind of interesting. Because, if you think about it that way, Zoro's not just trying to tame a single "problem child". Zoro's kind of like a military commander trying to whip a entire "squad" of fighting roughnecks into a lean, mean fighting force. Zoro's trying to "train" a bunch of quarreling mountain bandits into a defensive militia. Zoro's not just a Swordsman...he's a "Shogun"! Someone trying to get a group of feuding warriors to work together with him, towards his goal. Trying to "convince" the multiple souls within his Swords to all work with him, as their new leader.
That's probably not where Oda's going with it. But, it's interesting to think about. Plus...it's interesting to think about what this could mean for the future. Because, if we get a sequel to One Piece that flashes forward 100 or more years, that would mean everyone we know would be dead. But...Zoro might not be totally "gone". Especially, if he ends up succeeding in making his own Black Blade. Because then...Zoro's "soul" could still be around in the future, inside one of his swords! I do not envy whoever ends up wielding a blade like that, constantly ordering you around. But, that could be part of the fun, for the story! Plus, if the Wado is the one that becomes a Black Blade...there may be a little piece of Kuina inside of the sword, too, that could live together with Zoro's soul. Finally reunited in the "afterlife" together. That may be too corny, but...I like it.
So, yeah, there are things Oda could do with this idea in the story. We'll see if any of them actually happen. But, be on the lookout. We might see more seeds for this idea, down the line.
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