Character Discussion It might be over for Zoro..

[Devilbat]

The problem with that is Oda would rather follow Luffy, who's missing, than all the strawhats combined.

Yep, that's true.... Although I'm trying to remember any manga where the main character was absent for an arc or two, and it isn't that easy.
Like, there's obviously HxH, and there were Sasuke-focused arcs in Naruto (albeit I'd rather have more Naruto than Sasuke).
Is there anything else that stands out?

 

[zzShinichi]

Yep, that's true.... Although I'm trying to remember any manga where the main character was absent for an arc or two, and it isn't that easy.
Like, there's obviously HxH, and there were Sasuke-focused arcs in Naruto (albeit I'd rather have more Naruto than Sasuke).
Is there anything else that stands out?

Ichigo going missing for like 80% of the TYBW's arc

 

[Blazing Lion]

Ichigo going missing for like 80% of the TYBW's arc

When you are more interested in the fights of the captains instead of the MC fight

 

[Devilbat]

When you are more interested in the fights of the captains instead of the MC fight

But if we're talking about OP, Luffy's latest fights are so lame for me. I'd rather see a couple more fights from Sanji, Zoro, Franky, Brook, Robin and Jinbe than yet another Luffy's fight.

 

[Shanal]

Zoro fans are the architect of their own unhappiness

 

[Welkin]

Ichigo going missing for like 80% of the TYBW's arc

Ichigo was ass in TYBW and that’s a major complaint the fans had while the chapters were releasing. I know people don’t like MC centric stories all that much but I think a lot less people like stories where the MC barely feels like the MC unless it’s done well

He came back with basically the same kit (wow 2 getsuga’s instead of one!) and fought a few Sternritter then got packed by the poison guy before sitting on the sidelines till the final stretch of the arc (where he got cucked by the author again, maybe we’ll see his Bankai when the Hell Arc drops in 15 years)

Yuji was also a non factor for half of the Culling Games and if you were a member of the fandom while those chapters were releasing you could see people counting the days till his return

HxH is one of the only stories that can take a step back from its MC for so long without the fandom ripping its hair out. And even that one has a slight asterisk since a lot of people are hoping and praying that Gon and Killua magically make their way into the next arc

 

[Welkin]

But if we're talking about OP, Luffy's latest fights are so lame for me. I'd rather see a couple more fights from Sanji, Zoro, Franky, Brook, Robin and Jinbe than yet another Luffy's fight.

I mean are some of the latest SH fights really better than Luffy’s though?

Zoro vs Lucci could barely even be considered a fight in the manga, just a few clangs every other chapter before cutting away. Zoro vs Kaku isn’t even worth discussing

Sanji vs S-Shark had a cool moment or two but could also barely be considered a fight (boring)

Franky, Robin, and Jinbei had actual full fights in Wano that were pretty good so I’d say these are fair picks

I don’t think Brook has had a full fight since Thriller Bark (if ever) so I can’t really speak on that one

 

[Paragorn]

Ngl i understand people liking more Zoro than Luffy nowdays

 

[Blazing Lion]

But if we're talking about OP, Luffy's latest fights are so lame for me. I'd rather see a couple more fights from Sanji, Zoro, Franky, Brook, Robin and Jinbe than yet another Luffy's fight.

OP fights arent the main focus, Oda already said this, the fights are mostly plot based, After Kaido, Luffy didnt have a fight.

 

[LolonoisZolo]

I mean are some of the latest SH fights really better than Luffy’s though?

Zoro vs Lucci could barely even be considered a fight in the manga, just a few clangs every other chapter before cutting away. Zoro vs Kaku isn’t even worth discussing

Sanji vs S-Shark had a cool moment or two but could also barely be considered a fight (boring)

Franky, Robin, and Jinbei had actual full fights in Wano that were pretty good so I’d say these are fair picks

I don’t think Brook has had a full fight since Thriller Bark (if ever) so I can’t really speak on that one

It's not about the choregraphy (Oda has never been known for that), it is about ''aura'' and G5 has 0 ''aura'' since it's always goofy wheras Zoro and most of the others get serious when things are dire.

 

[Devilbat]

I mean are some of the latest SH fights really better than Luffy’s though?

Zoro vs Lucci could barely even be considered a fight in the manga, just a few clangs every other chapter before cutting away. Zoro vs Kaku isn’t even worth discussing

Sanji vs S-Shark had a cool moment or two but could also barely be considered a fight (boring)

Franky, Robin, and Jinbei had actual full fights in Wano that were pretty good so I’d say these are fair picks

I don’t think Brook has had a full fight since Thriller Bark (if ever) so I can’t really speak on that one

That's precisely my point. I really didn't like how Luffy's fight with Kaido was dragged out, with Luffy dying, coming back to life, then a lot of back and forth, while, for example, Brook got nothing.
Egghead is more like an escape arc, similar to WCI but in both cases Luffy got a cool fight or two (Cracker and Katakuri in WCI, Kizaru in EH), while everyone else got basically nothing.

I get it, Luffy is an MC, but he has a crew for a reason. It's like in the sports manga, you have a team and someone does score, but the whole team is involved. My biggest gripe with post-TS is that we get less of that "team feel", compared to pre-TS.

 

[Devilbat]

OP fights arent the main focus, Oda already said this, the fights are mostly plot based, After Kaido, Luffy didnt have a fight.

Kizaru? Lucci 1st round?

 

[Welkin]

That's precisely my point. I really didn't like how Luffy's fight with Kaido was dragged out, with Luffy dying, coming back to life, then a lot of back and forth, while, for example, Brook got nothing.
Egghead is more like an escape arc, similar to WCI but in both cases Luffy got a cool fight or two (Cracker and Katakuri in WCI, Kizaru in EH), while everyone else got basically nothing.

I get it, Luffy is an MC, but he has a crew for a reason. It's like in the sports manga, you have a team and someone does score, but the whole team is involved. My biggest gripe with post-TS is that we get less of that "team feel", compared to pre-TS.

See people say it’s missing the team aspect but I never really understood it. I mean what’s really changed?

Post timeskip just like pre timeskip has arcs where certain Strawhats are left to the wayside while other Strawhats step up to the plate

In Little Garden Sanji is left on the sidelines until the very end of the arc, in Drum Kingdom Zoro and Usopp might as well have not even been there, Jaya focuses almost entirely on Luffy/Zoro/Nami so the other Strawhats get little to nothing, in Thriller Bark Franky and Robin also do little to nothing until the Oars fight

There’s also Long Ring Long Land where Choper is captured for most of its duration so he serves as a set piece

I think side characters now take a bigger slice of the screentime pie than they did before but I’d say the team feel still exists. The main thing that people complain about (which is usually the SH’s splitting up) has been a tactic that Oda’s used since the beginning of One Piece

They almost never do anything together. That’s always been the case

 

[Devilbat]

See people say it’s missing the team aspect but I never really understood it. I mean what’s really changed?

Post timeskip just like pre timeskip has arcs where certain Strawhats are left to the wayside while other Strawhats step up to the plate

In Little Garden Sanji is left on the sidelines until the very end of the arc, in Drum Kingdom Zoro and Usopp might as well have not even been there, Jaya focuses almost entirely on Luffy/Zoro/Nami so the other Strawhats get little to nothing, in Thriller Bark Franky and Robin also do little to nothing until the Oars fight

There’s also Long Ring Long Land where Choper is captured for most of its duration so he serves as a set piece

I think side characters now take a bigger slice of the screentime pie than they did before but I’d say the team feel still exists. The main thing that people complain about (which is usually the SH’s splitting up) has been a tactic that Oda’s used since the beginning of One Piece

They almost never do anything together. That’s always been the case

Yeah, but the focus used to be more on SHP, and right now we get more side characters in focus imo. Sometimes it's a welcome change (loved Law & SHP dynamics), sometimes it's too much (we could've had 5 scabbards instead of 9 easily, or 3 VPs instead of 6).

But previously we had a cool highlight to what the SHP did, and more time of them to be together for something. This is probably why I enjoy Elbaph a lot, it has quite a lot of SHP time together, either in Lego castle, or checking in with Loki and his story, or even being bound by Gunko together.

 

[Blazing Lion]

Kizaru? Lucci 1st round?

You want to define them as fights?

 

[vikas]

Bro tashigi Ugly as F....its over for Zoro

 

[vikas]

Why is Zoro suddenly more popular than Luffy in Japan? Bro’s been a borderline filler character since the last popularity poll

Maybe they hate Goofy

 

[Sir Yasheen]

But if we're talking about OP, Luffy's latest fights are so lame for me. I'd rather see a couple more fights from Sanji, Zoro, Franky, Brook, Robin and Jinbe than yet another Luffy's fight.

I’m kinda the opposite. I think the biggest issue with Luffys current fights is that he just doesn’t feel as strong as he used to. I want to see a Luffy vs Arlong esque fight where it’s just someone strong that Luffy beats fairly one v one. No interruption, no multiple rounds, no outside help, no nerfing the opponent just a solid one v one victory. And it genuinely doesn’t feel like we’re ever getting one of those.

My problem with the Luffy show is Oda wants his cake and eat it too. Luffy both does everything when it comes to cool moments but when it’s time for him to live up to his promise to arlong about what he can do, he falls short and always gets bailed out.

Like bleach was the Ichigo show by the arrancar arc, but people didn’t complain about it as much cause Ichigo felt competent with it

 

[Blazing Lion]

Why is Zoro suddenly more popular than Luffy in Japan? Bro’s been a borderline filler character since the last popularity poll

The question is why non filler characters are not more popular

 

[Devilbat]

You want to define them as fights?

Maybe not really for Lucci, but Kizaru was definitely a fight, which wasn't really good tho.

I’m kinda the opposite. I think the biggest issue with Luffys current fights is that he just doesn’t feel as strong as he used to. I want to see a Luffy vs Arlong esque fight where it’s just someone strong that Luffy beats fairly one v one. No interruption, no multiple rounds, no outside help, no nerfing the opponent just a solid one v one victory. And it genuinely doesn’t feel like we’re ever getting one of those.

My problem with the Luffy show is Oda wants his cake and eat it too. Luffy both does everything when it comes to cool moments but when it’s time for him to live up to his promise to arlong about what he can do, he falls short and always gets bailed out.

Like bleach was the Ichigo show by the arrancar arc, but people didn’t complain about it as much cause Ichigo felt competent with it

Yeah, this is also a valid standpoint. Luffy both over- and underdelivers. He steals too much spotlight when achieving nothing at times (Lucci still had to be contained by Zoro, Kaido was fighting non-stop while Luffy took a break, regen merchants Gorosei were not defeated at all).

I honestly miss fights like Luffy vs Lucci pre-TS, it's my favorite Luffy's fight, and Luffy vs Arlong was great too.
I really dislike multiple rounds, like Luffy had with Katakuri or Kaido, because it seems to drag the story unnecessarily, and make Luffy seem weaker than he is.

So yes, if there's any time for Zoro to take over #1 spot from Luffy, it is now.