Chapter Discussion How Oda Single Handly Destroyed a Certain Fandom's Claiming ( Sanji is a Conqueror Confirmed)

DonWick

DonWick

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#22
#22
John Akainu said:
Blud will never come back lol

"It's Shiki, not Gaban"
"Gaban will never be close to Ray"
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Well
John Akainu said:
Blud will never come back lol

"It's Shiki, not Gaban"
"Gaban will never be close to Ray"
Click to expand...
My response to you is that. Reading this initial post and the chapter tells me that Oda is going to fix every complaint that I had. Sanji is likely going to embrace his Vinsmoke genes and stop wavering. So I’m fine with it. I still don’t like it though but it is what it is. My concerns will be addressed.
 
Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

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#24
#24
John Akainu said:
For 5 years, a certain fandom has been claiming Sanji would never be a conqueror. Let's back in time....

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- Experts arguments for Sanji never unlocking ACoC:

- "Sanji has no ambition and his dream is not releated with power"

- "Sanji gave up his dream, he's not a Conqueror"


- "Sanji needs to show CoA hardening first."

- "Just because Zoro has CoC, doesn't mean Sanji will have it too"



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So yeah
Nice try, but I have consistently said that it hinges on Oda presenting us with a justification. Sanji has not undergone the personal growth necessary just yet but he's on the path
 
Sir Yasheen

Sir Yasheen

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#25
#25
DonWick said:
Well


My response to you is that. Reading this initial post and the chapter tells me that Oda is going to fix every complaint that I had. Sanji is likely going to embrace his Vinsmoke genes and stop wavering. So I’m fine with it. I still don’t like it though but it is what it is. My concerns will be addressed.
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Sanjis not going to embrace his vinsmoke genes. That’s literally the opposite of what Gaban said
 
Okamakama

Okamakama

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#28
#28
Fn Lucci said:
It's not the opposite, the source of Sanji's inner conflict IS Germa
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Gonna repost my post from earlier for you. Him giving into Germa makes no sense because:

Okamakama said:
Sanji has internalised all the cruelty he experienced in his youth. He truly believes his truest self is awful. This is why he asks the question as to which person Luffy needs. His first step was to choose himself over Stealth Black.

Next is Sanji realising, just as Luffy always has known (given how he refuted Judge's final jugement on Sanji's character), that his true self is where his strength lies.

Sanji needs to accept who he is and not hold back. He must find genuine confidence in his own way. Once he does, his kingly nature will reveal itself. Remember, there are different types of rulers. Some are tyrants, others are warlords, and others? They're benevolent. That is Sanji's true kingly nature.

Sanji will be the saviour of Elbaf's children. The same thing that defeated the Giants years ago as said by Imu will be thwarted by the righteous, kindly king.
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Sanji will learn that giving into Germa and becoming evil isn't a source of strength, it is weakness. He is not loving himself by becoming Germa. He needs to let go of his self-contempt by realising everything they (Germa) said about him is false. He is right just the way he is.
 
Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

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#29
#29
Sir Yasheen said:
Sacrificing his ideals and embracing germa is giving into the self loathing and abandoning himself to be something he hates.

Again, that’s the opposite of what Gaban said to do
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No one is saying to embrace Germa as in ideology, but accept himself and what makes him who he is. We've seen him swear off his name and ask Zoro for assisted suicide in case his physiology got the better of him.

He's run away from his past even though his life experiences come from it and make him strong. I can't imagine that Oda is really subtle about the idea of self loathing or has another intention
 
Sir Yasheen

Sir Yasheen

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#30
#30
Fn Lucci said:
No one is saying to embrace Germa as in ideology, but accept himself and what makes him who he is. We've seen him swear off his name and ask Zoro for assisted suicide in case his physiology got the better of him.

He's run away from his past even though his life experiences come from it and make him strong. I can't imagine that Oda is really subtle about the idea of self loathing or has another intention
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He already accepted the exoskeleton as part of him. The self loathing is related to his willingness to put his dreams on hold to save others as a first solution.

To quote bleach, he needs to learn the difference between a king and his horse.
 
Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

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#31
#31
Sir Yasheen said:
He already accepted the exoskeleton as part of him. The self loathing is related to his willingness to put his dreams on hold to save others as a first solution.

To quote bleach, he needs to learn the difference between a king and his horse.
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That's not contempt, loathing, OR deprecation. That's just self sacrifice
 
Okamakama

Okamakama

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#32
#32
Fn Lucci said:
That's not contempt, loathing, OR deprecation. That's just self sacrifice
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You'll find that many people with self-sacrificial tendencies have a degree of self-contempt. I used to when I was a depressed young adult. I'd put everything before myself and sacrifice my own well-being/goals simply because I didn't truly care for me.
 
Sir Yasheen

Sir Yasheen

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#33
#33
Fn Lucci said:
That's not contempt, loathing, OR deprecation. That's just self sacrifice
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Self sacrifice born from self loathing. This has been a part of Sanjis character since long before Germa was around. He wanted to stay on Baratie because he felt guilty that Zeff “gave up” his dream for Sanji. That wasn’t because he hasn’t come to terms with his germa genes but because he hasn’t come to terms that people can love him for who he is.
 
Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

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#34
#34
Sir Yasheen said:
Self sacrifice born from self loathing. This has been a part of Sanjis character since long before Germa was around. He wanted to stay on Baratie because he felt guilty that Zeff “gave up” his dream for Sanji. That wasn’t because he hasn’t come to terms with his germa genes but because he hasn’t come to terms that people can love him for who he is.
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He doesn't sacrifice because he hates himself, he sacrifices because he loves. If this isn't obvious then I think it can at least go back directly to Sora.

Occam's razor lmao. I think you'd be willing to get it if I wasn't the one saying it
 
Sir Yasheen

Sir Yasheen

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#35
#35
Fn Lucci said:
He doesn't sacrifice because he hates himself, he sacrifices because he loves. If this isn't obvious then I think it can at least go back directly to Sora.

Occam's razor lmao. I think you'd be willing to get it if I wasn't the one saying it
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It’s both. He sacrifices because he feels guilty for the love others shown him due to his self hatred believing he’s unworthy. This is a literal plot point brought up in WCI that Sanji initially feels guilty and responsible for Soras death when Reiju told him the truth.

He doesn’t need to accept any more about germa because that’s what the whole point of his fight with Queen was.
 
Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

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#36
#36
Sir Yasheen said:
It’s both. He sacrifices because he feels guilty for the love others shown him due to his self hatred believing he’s unworthy. This is a literal plot point brought up in WCI that Sanji initially feels guilty and responsible for Soras death when Reiju told him the truth.

He doesn’t need to accept any more about germa because that’s what the whole point of his fight with Queen was.
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We spoke in an older thread about the aforementioned part regarding his heartbreak with Pudding, and how you thought he had nothing to live for.

The parts with Luffy illustrate that point a lot better as he thought they could all just go without him, but that itself was resolved within the arc.

To date, however, Sanji will not use the Vinsmoke name and his comfort with being what he is is pretty vague
 
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