General & Others The (non-existing) stakes in One Piece

dirtyLarry

dirtyLarry

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#1
#1
I will start with a quote from myself:

dirtyLarry said:
My God, this manga has gone downhill so bad, it's almost comical.

It's not like One Piece was ever known for having high stakes, but these days it has ZERO stakes.

None. Nada. Niente.

Literally nothing has any sort of consequence, not even when the Demon King of the world shows up in person.

Sanji and Zoro getting destroyed? Don't worry, they're up and totally fine the next chapter.
Gerd gets her fingers chopped off? No worries, they sew them back the very next chapter.
Loki gets impaled? Don't worry, he's back with goofy trash talking the very next chapter (bonus: happened twice this arc).
Luffy gets skewered by Imu? Nah, no biggie, he is totally fine the very next chapter and even gets a new powerup to make this even more ridiculous.

Complete Mickey Mouse manga.

I know why I quit it after more than 20 years and almost regret looking up what happened the past few months
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Pre-skip we had at least some kind of stakes, where people where on their seats during Enies Lobby and later on during Marineford.

But post-skip has been one gigantic fuck-up from Oda.

This is the New World, where the stakes should be at their very highest, which Oda himself confirmed so many times.

Yet ironically enough he writes in LESS major consequences than ever before.

Nobody feels any kind of thrill (where you actually fear for your favorite characters) whatsoever, not even with the Demon King of the world being present.

Everyone knows that Oda won't write in major consequences and this is getting so bad currently, that Oda risks turning this into a certified clown show that not even the hardest homers can defend, if Elbaf really ends without any major consequences, too.
 
dirtyLarry

dirtyLarry

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#3
#3
Salah WG said:
Where?
What was Endangered in Enies Lobby that wasn't in Post-TS?
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Back then the sense of threat was still there, because the series hadn't gone on for so long and Oda really managed to make it look like a dire situation (Robin and Usopp leaving the crew in Water 7, Merry getting destroyed by CP9 etc.)

Of course in the end "only" Merry had to bite the dust, but the feeling was completely different.

Now after having seen the exact same shit arc after arc after arc for nearly 1200 chapters, even the last fan has realized that Oda refuses to mature and change things, so any kind of threat is now completely gone.

This then makes arc like Elbaf look quite ridiculous tbh.
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

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#6
#6
dirtyLarry said:
Back then the sense of threat was still there, because the series hadn't gone on for so long and Oda really managed to make it look like a dire situation (Robin and Usopp leaving the crew in Water 7, Merry getting destroyed by CP9 etc.)

Of course in the end "only" Merry had to bite the dust, but the feeling was completely different.

Now after having seen the exact same shit arc after arc after arc for nearly 1200 chapters, even the last fan has realized that Oda refuses to mature and change things, so any kind of threat is now completely gone.

This then makes arc like Elbaf look quite ridiculous tbh.
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Threat is only felt when no solution seems possible & the author must intervene with something unexpected,
One Piece never offered such experience, entire East Blue Saga was completely handled by SHs alone, and we knew all the time who's probably gonna save who & who will defeat who, the only times we hit that wall was when Mihawk arrived & also when Luffy was cornered by Buggy & Smoker in Loguetown, but we quickly understood that Mihawk was only there to interact with Zoro, while Loguetown was too short to feel any real tension,

After that, Arabasta Saga & Sky Island Saga were same as any Post-TS Arc, personally They are my favorite sagas, so yes I prefer their writing & setting & surprises ... etc but when we are talking about "stakes", it was clear as day that SHs will win over Baroque Works extreme diff, and that Enel will destroy everyone except the guy made of rubber, there was nothing to worry about really,

It wasn't until Enies Lobby Saga that things turned little more serious, but the battle happened in enemy territory, and even though Usopp left the crew, He was still safe & with them, and we knew SHs can handle CP-9, the only thing in danger was the ship, but it was Arc of Shipwrights, it was obvious that they are getting an upgraded ship,

The only chapters which had different structure & felt truly threatening were last 100 chapters of Pre-TS (Sabaody, Impel Down, Marineford),
But that was basically the Ending of Pre-TS, it's not fair to compare it to Post-TS in general, it should only be compared to Last 100 Chapters of One Piece, and as far as I can see, Final War didn't officially start yet, these Arcs are just Introducing us to who WG is, so that we finally understand all factions once Final War starts.
 
dirtyLarry

dirtyLarry

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#7
#7
Salah WG said:
Threat is only felt when no solution seems possible & the author must intervene with something unexpected,
One Piece never offered such experience, entire East Blue Saga was completely handled by SHs alone, and we knew all the time who's probably gonna save who & who will defeat who, the only times we hit that wall was when Mihawk arrived & also when Luffy was cornered by Buggy & Smoker in Loguetown, but we quickly understood that Mihawk was only there to interact with Zoro, while Loguetown was too short to feel any real tension,

After that, Arabasta Saga & Sky Island Saga were same as any Post-TS Arc, personally They are my favorite sagas, so yes I prefer their writing & setting & surprises ... etc but when we are talking about "stakes", it was clear as day that SHs will win over Baroque Works extreme diff, and that Enel will destroy everyone except the guy made of rubber, there was nothing to worry about really,

It wasn't until Enies Lobby Saga that things turned little more serious, but the battle happened in enemy territory, and even though Usopp left the crew, He was still safe & with them, and we knew SHs can handle CP-9, the only thing in danger was the ship, but it was Arc of Shipwrights, it was obvious that they are getting an upgraded ship,

The only chapters which had different structure & felt truly threatening were last 100 chapters of Pre-TS (Sabaody, Impel Down, Marineford),
But that was basically the Ending of Pre-TS, it's not fair to compare it to Post-TS in general, it should only be compared to Last 100 Chapters of One Piece, and as far as I can see, Final War didn't officially start yet, these Arcs are just Introducing us to who WG is, so that we finally understand all factions once Final War starts.
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My friend, the literal Demon King of the world is right here in person at Elbaf, it doesn't get much more endgame like this.

Despite this nobody can even feel a single ounce of threat, because Oda butchered his own manga so much with his countless cop-outs.

That's the problem.
 
Johnny B. Decent

Johnny B. Decent

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#8
#8
dirtyLarry said:
My friend, the literal Demon King of the world is right here in person at Elbaf, it doesn't get much more endgame like this.

Despite this nobody can even feel a single ounce of threat, because Oda butchered his own manga so much with his countless cop-outs.

That's the problem.
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Oh, please. Dragon Ball had two literal arcs ended with entire *planets* being revived with no issue at all.
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

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#9
#9
dirtyLarry said:
My friend, the literal Demon King of the world is right here in person at Elbaf, it doesn't get much more endgame like this.

Despite this nobody can even feel a single ounce of threat, because Oda butchered his own manga so much with his countless cop-outs.

That's the problem.
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I didn't say there are stakes in Elbaph or that One Piece shouldn't have them,
All I'm saying is that One Piece never had it since Day 1, except some increase in final 100 chapters of Pre-TS, so I expect same for Last 100.

Yeah this Demon King is being Introduced and He is fighting to kidnap children, He isn't here to fight for Infinity Stones,
We can complain if Elbaph implied there is gonna be a world ending battle in it, and didn't deliver on the stakes,

But when the Arc started with "Let's kidnap some children" and the henchmen are a little girl with daddy issues + dumb & dumber, and Elbaph is revealed to be just a single kingdom out of many for giants, it's clear what to expect,

Imu showing up doesn't suddenly mean that we should ignore all that & start expecting the arc's plot to change,
Actually, his motives clearly indicate from the start that the real threat is in Mary Geoise, He directly stated that his Land needs help & also needs an extra army, so the entire focus should be on Mary Geoise, not some forest with giant farmers who chained the only guy who could fight.
 
Monet

Monet

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#11
#11
This issue has been for more than decade.
And its why most of the fans read the manga for powerscaling or just making memes from it.

-no threat
-the mc bec the worset character .
- even old legends are destroyed like wb
- great moment ruined such as soul d shit.
- etc and many bullshit from every corner
U can't even enjoy old arcs anymore.
...

Talking about this now is just miserable.
 
Xione

Xione

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#20
#20
What stakes are we expecting in a shonen manga where the journey is pretty clear the MC wont be dying or anything of that sort until he's the Pirate King.

Naruto - Nothing happened to the MCs crew
Bleach - nothing happened to the MCs crew
Black Clover - same shit
DBZ- same shit
Fairy tale - same shit
Hell... Berserk - same shit.

I didnt feel any stakes during Water 7 - Ennis Lobby.

But technically speaking if luffy gets himself killed, its pretty much gg for the entire world. So in that regard theres always stakes on the line.
 
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