General & Others Is Marineford the worst aged arc in Shonen history?

[Logiko]

The fact that you are now retroactivily trying to start a hate train on Marineford (one of the arc that is considered a masterpiece) is really funny to me. It's like the depiction of everything I've been trying to warn you about.

Since you are starting to run out of hate for the present, you are now slowly parasiting and self-rotting your entire past-experiences mainly because you stopped trying to enjoy it in the present (and stop trying to understand it mostly). And you are not the only one, the hate on pre-timeskip is starting to grow in the forum. It will soon reach the same form of hatred as post-timeskip.

Incredible



The arc didn't age poorly, you did

 

[Fn Lucci]

Not being able to regenerate after a cut from Logiko is crazy

 

[Rumble]

It hasn't aged well, I'll give it that, but the overall Summit War Saga was gas.

 

[Kiiro]

I dont think so.

I think you are overrating these Captains and underestimating Luffy.

They called Luffy and newbie, but was he ?

Luffy after that, he had 400 million bounty, much higher than many Captains, at the new world or paradise, Luffy may have a little time as pirate but he was nit weak at all. Defeated Arlong, a Veteran with a single kick.

Defeated 2 Warlords with New World Experience even though they were weaker than their prime.

Defeated Lucci in a clean fight, Lucci having Haki as we all know at this point, Lucci whi was respected by many if not all Vice Admirals, Vice Admirals which have st leadt 1 type of haki.

Luffy wasnt weak, just lacked experience, thats all.

Those captains, even though having mlre experience dont have as much power as Luffy, with no haki.

Reason I always said, that Luffy already was Vet level, reaching Yc4 tier.

 

[Signman77]

It's not like New World magically makes you stronger lol

You people underestimate Pre-TS Characters so much and think that guys we see in NW are superior for no reason.

Those Captains aren't even close to Pre-TS Luffy's Level, let alone Post-TS Version and other SHs, chill.

The thing about Pre-TS is that Luffy either defeats enemies that are too strong for him by chance (Enel) or in a nonsensical way (Crocodile).
Also, Gekko Moria is a fraud compared to like all warlords.
Marineford is similar, the point about pacifista is true, I guess you could explain it by WB pirates being severely outnumbered by governement forces and thus tired/overwhelmed- but there is a level of inconsistency
PL are indeed inconsistent.

 

[Signman77]

Also, so many warlords in pre TS have complete fodder crew/organization
Wtf is baroque works scaling wise? Zoro solos an entire island in the grand line, then they all job to Kuma at sabaody after he and strawhats grew exponentially stronger

 

[Logiko]

It hasn't aged well

And here we go.. it's spreading already

At the speed it started to develop here in the last few month, I'd say people will start saying these baseless nonsense about pre-timeskip massively here in a year or two, should be massive on twitter before the end of One Piece. Perhaps then we will start to see the groundbreaking free spirited mind disrupters of youtube ride on this hate and conflictuality wave for clicks with their clickbate titles "PRETIMESKIP WAS TRASH ACTUALLY" "10 TIMES WERE ODA SCREWED UP IN MARINEFORD" "I HATE WATER SEVEN", "5 REASONS WHY YOU SHOULD SKIP SKYPIEA".

Then, 5 years laters, after One Piece ended and they realized they have been basically reading and spending hundreds of hours for a story they think they should have never liked, you will see the same people who - trying to rationnalize the situation - will start to actually read the line inbetween what they didn't understand before, and come back with new clickbates "I WAS WRONG ABOUT TRASHPIECE" "ALABASTA IS SO UNDERRATED" "THE INCREDIBLE NARRATION OF EGGHEAD" "THE HIDDEN LAYER OF ONE PIECE".

I can't wait

 

[Rumble]

And here we go.. it's spreading already

I've been saying that for over a decade, ya bum.

It's the same for the decline in quality post-skip. I've been saying that since FMI, when most were still high on the novelty of skip.

I can recall conversations I had about this shit in high school.

 

[Yoho]

Its always been one of the worst one piece arcs to me

 

[Signman77]

I dont think so.

I think you are overrating these Captains and underestimating Luffy.

They called Luffy and newbie, but was he ?

Luffy after that, he had 400 million bounty, much higher than many Captains, at the new world or paradise, Luffy may have a little time as pirate but he was nit weak at all. Defeated Arlong, a Veteran with a single kick.

Defeated 2 Warlords with New World Experience even though they were weaker than their prime.

Defeated Lucci in a clean fight, Lucci having Haki as we all know at this point, Lucci whi was respected by many if not all Vice Admirals, Vice Admirals which have st leadt 1 type of haki.

Luffy wasnt weak, just lacked experience, thats all.

Those captains, even though having mlre experience dont have as much power as Luffy, with no haki.

Reason I always said, that Luffy already was Vet level, reaching Yc4 tier.

This could be a good explanation, but
Let's say that the strawhats and Luffy are new world level even without haki, are they speedblitzing their observation haki just naturally? They biologically move faster than 80% of New world pirates can keep up with? Luffy casually speed blitzing crocodile CoO in alabasta? Otherwise they shouldn't be able to touch their opponents

 

[The DevilMaster]

Just look at all this nonsense from 17 years ago. LMAO

We got like a thousand explanations for why Whitebeard couldn’t properly use Haki. This guy was literally stabbed before the fight even started, and Marco attributed that to his lack of CoO because of his illness.

And even then, prime Akainu was being ignored in the middle of the fight by a guy without ACoO and ACoC.

 

[sanjikun]

I recently re-read Marineford and while reading it I couldn't help thinking "Dude, that's some massive bullshit."

You ask why?

Because with everything we learned about haki (especially the top level stuff) hardly anything during this arc makes sense. Especially not the moves (or rather non-moves) the true top tiers there made.

Knowing how insane CoC can be, how using CoO and CoA is absolutely necessary in every fight against skilled opponents, Marineford looks incredibly implausible in hindsight.

One example that actually made me laugh out loud: The infamous and hyped up New World Captains who helped WB were overpowered by the very first models of the Pacifista. Those same pacifista models were getting one-shotted by base form Luffy (and Zoro/Sanji) simply using CoA right after the timeskip. You tell me THAT was the level of those scary New World Captains back then - not even knowing basic haki? Post-skip they would fall even below Doflamingo's random henchmen.

If you re-read Marieford with the knowledge we have now, it really looks like some lower or mid-tier dudes met for a friendly sparring match.

It really aged that poorly.

Marineford was never "WBPs were going to beat the Marines". That wasn't going to happen.

It was more like, can the WBPs fluke themselves into freeing Ace, if they sacrifice half their people.

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

I recently re-read Marineford and while reading it I couldn't help thinking "Dude, that's some massive bullshit."

You ask why?

Because with everything we learned about haki (especially the top level stuff) hardly anything during this arc makes sense. Especially not the moves (or rather non-moves) the true top tiers there made.

Knowing how insane CoC can be, how using CoO and CoA is absolutely necessary in every fight against skilled opponents, Marineford looks incredibly implausible in hindsight.

One example that actually made me laugh out loud: The infamous and hyped up New World Captains who helped WB were overpowered by the very first models of the Pacifista. Those same pacifista models were getting one-shotted by base form Luffy (and Zoro/Sanji) simply using CoA right after the timeskip. You tell me THAT was the level of those scary New World Captains back then - not even knowing basic haki? Post-skip they would fall even below Doflamingo's random henchmen.

If you re-read Marieford with the knowledge we have now, it really looks like some lower or mid-tier dudes met for a friendly sparring match.

It really aged that poorly.

The Chadmirals just got up to stretch and the war was over. Lol

 

[Logiko]

I've been saying that for over a decade, ya bum.

It's the same for the decline in quality post-skip. I've been saying that since FMI, when most were still high on the novelty of skip.

I can recall conversations I had about this shit in high school.

Lmao I can remember already arguing with people like you back in Thriller bark lovely. There is indeed nothing new. It's the same type of rehearsed conflictuality.

And already at the time, people didn't read between the lines (or within the lines frankly)

 

[Salah WG]

The problem with people's power scaling is that they make rules themselves & then complain about the story because they find out they were wrong, but instead blame it on the manga being inconsistent,

You decided that Random NW Captains are Stronger than Pacifista automatically, Manga didn't say it, you did,
And when you saw the opposite of your claim, instead of adjusting your view, you hold on to it & say the Manga was wrong, even though it never made such claim to begin with.

 

[Logiko]

The problem with people's power scaling is that they make rules themselves & then complain about the story because they find out they were wrong, but instead blame it on the manga being inconsistent,

You decided that Random NW Captains are Stronger than Pacifista automatically, Manga didn't say it, you did,
And when you saw the opposite of your claim, instead of adjusting your view, you hold on to it & say the Manga was wrong, even though it never made such claim to begin with.

Exactly!!

 

[Rumble]

Lmao I can remember already arguing with people like you back in Thriller bark lovely. There is indeed nothing new. It's the same type of rehearsed conflictuality.

And already at the time, people didn't read between the lines (or within the lines frankly)

OK, go on. What is my opinion on Thriller Bark?

 

[Signman77]

The problem with people's power scaling is that they make rules themselves & then complain about the story because they find out they were wrong, but instead blame it on the manga being inconsistent,

You decided that Random NW Captains are Stronger than Pacifista automatically, Manga didn't say it, you did,
And when you saw the opposite of your claim, instead of adjusting your view, you hold on to it & say the Manga was wrong, even though it never made such claim to begin with.

Has an effort ever been made to scale pre-TS by taking as an assumption that haki was used but not visible (like that user did, manga is from "Luffy POV")
Because if so, Luffy is at least low YC after alabasta in terms of physical attributes (can physically overpower crocodile if he can hit him when he's wet, and I don't think Crocodile would lose against Sasaki), and massively upscales marines (CP9 is strong as hell)

 

[Salah WG]

Has an effort ever been made to scale pre-TS by taking as an assumption that haki was used but not visible (like that user did, manga is from "Luffy POV")
Because if so, Luffy is at least low YC after alabasta in terms of physical attributes (can physically overpower crocodile if he can hit him when he's wet, and I don't think Crocodile would lose against Sasaki), and massively upscales marines (CP9 is strong as hell)

Haki is not Nen, it's not something that grants Powers like DFs or make you Invincible, or that Haki Users are automatically superior than Non-Haki Users,

Take Don Krieg for example, the guy didn't need Hardening CoA because He wore an Armor, He didn't need Barrier CoA because He had a Shield & Firearms anyway, He didn't need Internal Damage CoA because He had Poison & Flamethrower & Bombs anyway, so Luffy defeating him is no different than defeating someone with Haki but on Krieg's Level of Threat,

Haki was created to even the odds, it's only purpose is to make Martial Arts not inferior than Swordsmanship or Weapon Users, and to make both of these not inferior than DF Users & Lineage Factor-Enhanced People,

Luffy's Punches are freaking Bullets since Chapter 1, even Pirate King isn't immune to Bullets if He doesn't block successfully, so why wouldn't Luffy hurt any Villain so badly when He lands his Attacks? This isn't Dragon Ball

Pre-TS Luffy already Defeated Boa Sisters in 1v2, you think Hancock can't send those two to fight Black Maria for example?
Stop overrating Post-TS Characters & Underrating Pre-TS Characters,

I can name a thousand enemy They faced in New World who is weaker than East Blue Arlong.

 

[Signman77]

Haki is not Nen, it's not something that grants Powers like DFs or make you Invincible, or that Haki Users are automatically superior than Non-Haki Users,

Take Don Krieg for example, the guy didn't need Hardening CoA because He wore an Armor, He didn't need Barrier CoA because He had a Shield & Firearms anyway, He didn't need Internal Damage CoA because He had Poison & Flamethrower & Bombs anyway, so Luffy defeating him is no different than defeating someone with Haki but on Krieg's Level of Threat,

Haki was created to even the odds, it's only purpose is to make Martial Arts not inferior than Swordsmanship or Weapon Users, and to make both of these not inferior than DF Users & Lineage Factor-Enhanced People,

Luffy's Punches are freaking Bullets since Chapter 1, even Pirate King isn't immune to Bullets if He doesn't block successfully, so why wouldn't Luffy hurt any Villain so badly when He lands his Attacks? This isn't Dragon Ball

Pre-TS Luffy already Defeated Boa Sisters in 1v2, you think Hancock can't send those two to fight Black Maria for example?
Stop overrating Post-TS Characters & Underrating Pre-TS Characters,

I can name a thousand enemy They faced in New World who is weaker than East Blue Arlong.

Name some then.
Also you're forgetting observation Haki exists, also reaction time and speed tiers in combat. These are all superhuman people
Leaving aside Enel, crocodile is beaten fair and square once his DF weakness is exposed.
Could alabasta Luffy kill any of the scabbard?
Because he couldn't even touch tekkai blueno before gear 2nd