Chapter Discussion I dont like how Oda treats Vinsmoke brothers

[soheilhazrat]

I honestly dont like how he ( And sanji through oda i guess ) treat Three other Vinsmoke brothers
Oda treats them as if they are this ultimate big bad assholes. While dont get me wrong, they are terrible assholes to not just sanji, but everyone
Murderers and assholes all round. HOWEVER, they are all Judge's victims. Its not thats their choice to be like that, they were CREATED that way. Even when they were facing death themselves in the wedding, they were laughing at judge and themselves for being fools. Shows that their like that, its not a choice. Its in their nature cause their victims of Judge
I'd be disappointed if Sanji at least doesnt address this with Chopper/Franky. See if he can do something about them
As the Kindest person, would be weird to leave them behind
After all, Sora wanted ALL of her children to have Emotions

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Both things can be true at the same time. They are victims of Judges experiments and assholes.

Sanji can explain that to Chopper and Franky all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that his brothers would leave them for dead if given the oppurtunity lol.

 

[soheilhazrat]

Both things can be true at the same time. They are victims of Judges experiments and assholes.

Sanji can explain that to Chopper and Franky all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that his brothers would leave them for dead if given the oppurtunity lol.

Who knows? Is there cure for them being Emotionless? Would sora leave them like that, had she survived? Is this what she wanted? Sanji should at least try to do something about it?

 

[Jeanstealer]

Maybe I'm coping but I think there's still a decent chance for this to be addressed. I'd imagine Sanji will end up meeting Judge, his brothers and Reiju at least once before the manga ends. Perhaps Sanji's full metamorphosis (circa this chapter) a person will have some sort of effect on Ichiji, Yonji and Niji.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Who knows? Is there cure for them being Emotionless? Would sora leave them like that, had she survived? Is this what she wanted? Sanji should at least try to do something about it?

Sanji can't do anything about it. They fully underwent the transformation.

The only ones affecter by Sora's interference were Sanji and Reiju. The others are cooked.

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

i would say oda portrayed judge and the germa siblings differently
Judge abused sanji, and thats why at the wci wedding we had some kind of conclusion where sanji ironically told judge to never call him his son anymore. So in a way, we can say Judge was the villain to sanji's story and that was their ending.
Meanwhile, sanji never had some concluding ending with his brothers.

 

[soheilhazrat]

i would say oda portrayed judge and the germa siblings differently
Judge abused sanji, and thats why at the wci wedding we had some kind of conclusion where sanji ironically told judge to never call him his son anymore. So in a way, we can say Judge was the villain to sanji's story.
Meanwhile, sanji never had some concluding ending with his brothers.

Thats why i need it to be concluded, i think thats the true final step of his character arc. Besides finding all blue ofc

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

Thats why i need it to be concluded, i think thats the true final step of his character arc. Besides finding all blue ofc

no, i meant, sanji (and oda) didnt intend to have germa siblings as the villain at first place. In sanji's plotline, the villain was Judge, not the siblings. So there is no conclusion needed there.

 

[soheilhazrat]

no, i meant, sanji (and oda) didnt intend to have germa siblings as the villain at first place. In sanji's plotline, the villain was Judge, not the siblings. So there is no conclusion needed there.

I dont think sora would've appreciated it that her other sons just stay helpless, but maybe im overthinking it

 

[Logiko]

I honestly dont like how he ( And sanji through oda i guess ) treat Three other Vinsmoke brothers
Oda treats them as if they are this ultimate big bad assholes. While dont get me wrong, they are terrible assholes to not just sanji, but everyone
Murderers and assholes all round. HOWEVER, they are all Judge's victims. Its not thats their choice to be like that, they were CREATED that way. Even when they were facing death themselves in the wedding, they were laughing at judge and themselves for being fools. Shows that their like that, its not a choice. Its in their nature cause their victims of Judge
I'd be disappointed if Sanji at least doesnt address this with Chopper/Franky. See if he can do something about them
As the Kindest person, would be weird to leave them behind
After all, Sora wanted ALL of her children to have Emotions

You can't ask a victim of abuse to fight for their abuser. Sanji is kind, he is not Superman, his kindness is not a totem of complete acceptence and consideration, there are limits. On top of that, these people do not lack free will, they lack the capacity to completely rebel which is slightly different, they can still be asshole or be good, in their own ways even if they are trapped by the pressure of an authority figure.

But Oda actually agrees to a degree as he allowed a path of redemption still even if very faint. But it won't be Sanji's path.

The world of One Piece is not always fair, sometimes, there are situations like this that are unfixable, at least not by the protagonists. The Vinsmoke will have to find their own ways.

 

[soheilhazrat]

You can't ask a victim of abuse to fight for their abuser. Sanji is kind, he is not Superman, his kindness is not a totem of complete acceptence and consideration, there are limits. On top of that, these people do not lack free will, they lack the capacity to completely rebel which is slightly different, they can still be asshole or be good, in their own ways even if they are trapped by the pressure of an authority figure.

But Oda actually agrees to a degree as he allowed a path of redemption still even if very faint. But it won't be Sanji's path.

The world of One Piece is not always fair, sometimes, there are situations like this that are unfixable, at least not by the protagonists. The Vinsmoke will have to find their own ways.

Fair points though i dont agree on them having a "Free will"
Sure they might have it, i guess
But they cant feel any compassion towards anything or anyone, including themselves that which basically limits their so called "Free will" to be forced into being villains.

 

[K!NG HARA$H!MA]

Sanji doesn't have the empathy to cure his brothers


That's because the blatant bullying since kids sucked out every feelings he had for them


Honestly, it's the only natural that it ended up like this.


This isn't on him. Sanji is right to hate on them. The baggage is too strong

 

[Etemenanki]

They already partially redeemed themself at the end of WCI and later in the SBS.
I imagine that in EoS, Sanji will become sort of the new Germa Kingdom's King, and will transform all the snail war ships in Baratie' restaurants going across the All Blue (the One Piece ocean without the Red Line separating it in 4 different parts).
The Germa siblings (Judge will change life as well somewhere else) will help in some ways.

We'll see in about 5/6 years if I'm right.

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

@soheilhazrat
Big Mom couldn't control her hunger craving and lost control, later on groomed by mother carmel and Streusen to be allowed to do anything. She was also a victim

 

[soheilhazrat]

@soheilhazrat
Big Mom couldn't control her hunger craving and lost control, later on groomed by mother carmel and Streusen to be allowed to do anything. She was also a victim

Big Mom is groomed but could've redeemed herself tho but vinsmoke brothers kinda dont have a free will.

 

[Proto00]

On top of that, these people do not lack free will, they lack the capacity to completely rebel which is slightly different, they can still be asshole or be good, in their own ways even if they are trapped by the pressure of an authority figure.

He also took away their empathy tough.
It seemed like the stronger the cyborg was, the worse it was. Ichiji didn't even flinch when Reiju was down. Added to the inability to refuse to obey to Judge?
The OP is right, his brothers are victims, Judge made them like that, they're almost slaves....

Whuch is why that plotline isn't finished and will be adressed (Neo MADS,etc)
I think just like Big Mom, Imu will also recruit Germa once he fails to take over Elbaph and the Giants.
Sanji will have to face them like Sora did in the Comics.
It's also heavily implied that Sanji himself could one day have to break free from Judges control, the surgery worked, it was delayed but successful. If he has awakened an exoskeleton, he might pretty soon be vulnerable to his father's commands.

 

[RiShin]

Let's have them eat some spare smile fruits to see if they can show some emotions.

 

[MegaSpider]

They only don't have empathy.
So they CHOSE to be assholes, as being an asshole was not the purpose nor side effect of Judge's experiment.

Anyways, Sanji has broke ties with Germa at the end of Wano, and again this chapter. He won't have anything to do with them anymore, they are strangers to him now.

 

[soheilhazrat]

They only don't have empathy.
So they CHOSE to be assholes, as being an asshole was not the purpose nor side effect of Judge's experiment.

Anyways, Sanji has broke ties with Germa at the end of Wano, and again this chapter. He won't have anything to do with them anymore, they are strangers to him now.

They dont have empathy so they cant tell wrong from right since they cant feel anything and they were thought by judge to be ruthless and "Bad people" they didnt just randomly learn cooking as prince is a pathetic thing, it was taught by judge
Judge wanted ice cold killers and thats how he taught his sons

 

[Goofball_Your_Nika]

Blah, blah, blah.
We are all products of our environment.
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