Well this series is basically everyone wants to become Pirate King, not World Strongest ....
did WB wants to become WSM in the first place? and did Kaido wants to become World Strongest Creature too?
Whitebeard just want a family and he had a chance to became Pirate King and he dont take that chance..
Well this series is basically everyone wants to become Pirate King, not World Strongest ....
did WB wants to become WSM in the first place? and did Kaido wants to become World Strongest Creature too?
Whitebeard just want a family and he had a chance to became Pirate King and he dont take that chance..
But then you are advocating to change their characters right?
You are saying their current characters gain nothing from this so they should be changed to suit your agenda here.
And what do you mean by "that kind of fighter"? Are you really going on about "pure swordsman" here? Is this it? Is this your actual point? Please tell me it is so that you stop beating around the bush.
And if you want actually make some case then take Hyouzo. Hyouzo is the only swordsman Zoro has fought who actively evaluates his own strength compared to others like Zoro or Mihawk do. Hyouzo says "I'm the strongest swordsman in Fishman island"
So basically Hyouzo would be the closest thing to what you want right. But the problem is that he's racist weakling drunkard. According to you we should get Hyouzo's current traits and add on "I want to be WSS". But you see a problem here right, Mihawk is the WSS. A human being. Why would racist drunkard ACKNOWLEDGE Mihawk as WSS yet he's a human? The easy answer is that he doesn't. It goes against his racism to say a human is WSS so of course Mihawk isn't really WSS then. But seeing he also believes Fishmen are naturally superior, then that means him being tested strongest fishman swordman means he's ALREADY STRONGER than the human swordsmen. Meaning he's already WSS.
Are you noticing the issue here? This isn't a small little trait to just give someone for fun. Wanting to challenge Mihawk who is comparable to yonkou for just for the sense of accomplishment at the risk of your actual death to this guy is not a small thing you just add on to a character. Fujitora with his sense of justice and his mission to change the world can't also be risking hus life for essentially a cheap thrill. That's anachronistic to his entire character and motivations
Oda would've had to give WSS some kind of political power to justify any of these characters with highly political goals to want it. And the problem with that is that Zoro exists. Zoro wants the title but he has no political leanings himself. Therefore if the title had innate political power, it would have to be something Zoro recognises and is aware he would get. Therefore we would have to change Zoro-s character as well to reflect the inherent political power of the title.
And we don't want any of this right? We don't need to change Fujitora or Zoro's character just for your agenda especially when the changes are bad.
The easiest thing would be to create another Zoro. Amother character who naturally fits into someone who would want this title and be string enough to challenge Zoro. But that's not easy to do. I mean people thought it was killer and look how that turned out.
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@kurwa
Are you saying TO ZORO, achieving his dream means nothing to him
But I don't care about the actual characters, I'm proposing a train of thought that Oda may follow when establishing the priorities, traits and goals of certain profiles and why these profiles won't aim for the title. And since his work is mainly full of creative powers that virtually overshadow the traditional depiction of a swordsman and a sword duel, then he cornered himself to this bromance we have as the run for the title, wasting while doing so the very few chances of explicitly showing contenders in the likes of Vista or, as you said, Killer. I agree with your whole dissertation about the political voidness of the title, but I'm discussing a creative process that happens before the final work itself and, therefore, its characters and motivations.
WSS seems like the kind of goal you aspire to when you value your strength above all else. Most swordsmen we see have stronger goals that are sufficiently unrelated to that. While they might need to get stronger to achieve what they want, they do not get stronger for the sake of strength or to surpass a specific swordsman, thus, they do not aspire directly to the title of WSS.
But I don't care about the actual characters, I'm proposing a train of thought that Oda may follow when establishing the priorities, traits and goals of certain profiles and why these profiles won't aim for the title. And since his work is mainly full of creative powers that virtually overshadow the traditional depiction of a swordsman and a sword duel, then he cornered himself to this bromance we have as the run for the title, wasting while doing so the very few chances of explicitly showing contenders in the likes of Vista or, as you said, Killer. I agree with your whole dissertation about the political voidness of the title, but I'm discussing a creative process that happens before the final work itself and, therefore, its characters and motivations.
Well isn't this debunked by Zoro's opponents then?
Like whether or not swordsmen are directly after WSS title, there mete existence as opponents of Zoro's in itself makes them part of Zoro's journey to be WSS.
For example the Poison user Hyouzo, the Zoan six powers user Kaku, the gravity user Fujitora, the Stone user Pica, the scythe user killer, the cloud user Ohm, the guy who is his own blade Daz bones. I've said it a few times before and I will repeat it. The only traditional swordsmen Zoro has fought are Mihawk Tashigi and Tbone. Every time Zoro fights swordsmen, Oda is Never shy about going all out with his version of what swordsmen are.
So if Zoro fights these swordsmen on his ladder to become WSS, don't they serve your purpose. Like do they themselves have to want to be WSS to serve your purpose? Your point is that such swordsmen don't want to challenge Mihawk but then the issue here is that Mihawk has nothing to prove to the story. He's established as a fact stronger than all. So isn't it Zoro who has to challenge all these guys then since he's the one who has to prove something. And isn't beating these people the same thing whether or not they want to be WSS.
Like for example if Zoro beats the flying Dinosaur that can produce fire from his weird race ability King and then beats the invisible swordsman Shiryu and then beats the gravity user Fujitora and then finally challanges Mihawk and BARELY even manages to win. Are you gonna say that it was Oda shying away from having Mihawk fight "non traditional" swordsmen yet Zoro fought them?
I mean you would've had some sort of point if Zoro himself never fought such people but he does. Very regularly in fact. So why does it matter whether such people challenge Mihawk if Zoro by nature of the story is "tranditional" like Mihawk and is STILL whopping these guys
Why would anyone on an isolationist nation Like Wano even give a fuck about being the WSS? These guys have their own terms for Haki and Devil Fruits,the only other society so far to have that is Skypiea
Among all relevant characters we've seen, not one has had any aspiration to be WSS nor do they even care about the title. We are in Wano Kuni, a country full of strong swordsmen but not once have we heard of Mihawk. Why is there such a stark discrepancy between how much of the fanbase values WSS title and its relevancy in power scaling and the in verse perceptions of the title?
The title would be legitimized greatly if Zoro had an actual rival or a character in passing who aspires to be WSS or aspires to beat Mihawk but we have no such thing.
So this begs the question, does the fanbase value this title way too much when Oda himself hasn't even done anything to progress or build up any tension towards Zoro's goal. It's not hyperbole to assert that there is not development in Zoro's goal to becoming WSS. There is no tension, no tug, it all falls flat when you realize that over 400 chapters of the TS, this aspiration has not been hinted at once by any other character. No one cares about Mihawk and WSS so, why should we as fans place such emphasis on a title without any story points legitimizing it?
For example, if we get that Beckman is the World Greatest/Strongest Marksman, does that really do anything for power scaling? It would be cool info sure but, that changes nothing about the power scaling. At this point, learning that Beckman is the greatest Marksman would have as much weight as Mihawk being the Greatest Swordsman. They both would have similar levels of build up and development (Zero).
What do you mean we have never seen anyone aspire to become WSS.
We have seen a Dojo in East Blue and there are sworsdmen in that Dojo training, training to be as strong as they can be as a sworsdman. When you train to be as strong as you can as a swordsman, ultimate destination is to do what? Become Strongest Swordsman in the World
Now that's only one Dojo, how many Dojo's are there in the world? I'd say like 10s of 1000s if not more. So you have millions of people right there aspiring to become World's Strongest Swordsman.
We saw Shanks use swords as a kid and he hasn't used any other weapon nor does he have any other and we know Shanks is nothing more than a regular human. So he also trained as hard as he could to become as strong as he could? What is becoming as strong as you could as a swordsman? Becoming strongest swordsman in the World. He was almost on his way, had legendary grand line shaking duels with Mihawk until he lost an arm. Obviously you can't become strongest swordsman in the World with one arm and obviously Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.
What about country of Wano? Doesn't that country have 100s of 1000s of swordsman? Aren't they all training? Aren't they all training to become as strong as they could?
What about every other regular human who has honed their skills with the blade? People like Kaku, Brook, Cabiji, Momonga, Fujitora? Aren't they trying to become as strong as they could?
Do you know why no one else has used this garbage, piss poor dog shit of an argument? As a grown ass man, you should be ashamed of yourself asking this stupid ass question. What you are saying is that every single swordsman in the World of One Piece is lazy as fuck, they they don't aspire to be as strong, as good as they can be.
And yes if Benn Beckman had title of Greatest Marksman in the World, it would be statement of power level. He would be greater than every other marksman in the World. Though Marksmanship seems very limited, like what happens if you are in ranged, Melee combat? If you have title of World's Strongest Marksman, which doesn't make a lot of sense, then that would make you stronger than every Marksman.
But World's Strongest Marksman title doesn't exist because it doesn't make sense as I described Marksmanship is a very limited fighting style. Swordsmanship in One Piece is a complete fighting style, you can destroy Islands with swordsmanship, bring Tsunami's with swordsmanship, cut the most durable characters with swordsmanship, be king of melee with swordsmanship, be king of ranged combat with sworsdmanship. There is virtually nothing you can't accomplish in One Piece, in a combat scenario that includes
-Fodder control
-Ranged Combat
-Mele combat
-Destruction
-Overcoming the most durable opponents
-Overcoming the largest opponents
-Cut elements
-Replicate natural disasters
you name it and hence the title of Strongest Swordsman in the World works!
This is hyperbole. Every time Zoro fights the swordsman of the arc he's progressing his dream.
You remember Mihawk telling Zoro that he had to travel and see the world in order to get any chance at him. And then Zoro says he will never lose again.
Well there you have it. The prerequisite to progressing Zoro's dreams is TRAVELLING and WINNING fights.
Fights against what? The last swordsman zoro fought was ryuma. Oda dropped the ball in regards to the prestige of the title as no one but him cares about it.
Fights against what? The last swordsman zoro fought was ryuma. Oda dropped the ball in regards to the prestige of the title as no one but him cares about it.
No because that would be assuming no swordsman in the World cares about becoming stronger and that makes negative sense, as if they don't care about becoming stronger, how did they become stronger?
Has Kinnemon reached his prime, has Ashura Doji reach his prime? Oden said he reached his prime.
How do you reach your prime and from the time you started practicing swordsmanship, and the time you reach your prime, you go through drastic improvement? I'd say its through willingness to get stronger and due to that willingness you train?
By that logic, literally every single swordsman who tries his best to reach his full potential as a swordsman is in running for Mihawk's title. Meaning millions of people are aspiring to become WSS.
We haven't see anyone actively go after WB's title, does it take away the prestige? Not really because there are fighters in the World and they are trying to become as strong as they could.
WSS is not a title, its an identity, it is who Mihawk is as the data book says, Strongest in name and actuality. So literally its impossible for his title to have lack of prestige as long as we live in a world of One Piece where seemingly majority of fighters are swordsmen.
Feels like others gave up due to mihawk maybe. Like vista as a swordsman wants to spar with him but it also showed he already considered mihawk to be superior one. It seems oda did not create any rivals for it because they would be boring especially since zoro met mihawk so early and he is pretty much his rival and goal too. Adding another character probably was a good choice since bboth us and zoro won't care. We also have zoro's rival kuina who being dead and zoro carying the weight of both of their weight donesn't has time to spare on any rivals.
No because that would be assuming no swordsman in the World cares about becoming stronger and that makes negative sense, as if they don't care about becoming stronger, how did they become stronger?
Has Kinnemon reached his prime, has Ashura Doji reach his prime? Oden said he reached his prime.
How do you reach your prime and from the time you started practicing swordsmanship, and the time you reach your prime, you go through drastic improvement? I'd say its through willingness to get stronger and due to that willingness you train?
By that logic, literally every single swordsman who tries his best to reach his full potential as a swordsman is in running for Mihawk's title. Meaning millions of people are aspiring to become WSS.
We haven't see anyone actively go after WB's title, does it take away the prestige? Not really because there are fighters in the World and they are trying to become as strong as they could.
WSS is not a title, its an identity, it is who Mihawk is as the data book says, Strongest in name and actuality. So literally its impossible for his title to have lack of prestige as long as we live in a world of One Piece where seemingly majority of fighters are swordsmen.
Im not disagreing with your explanation, but can you for once drop the defense mode and tell me straight to my eyes that Oda didnt drop the ball on the worth of WSS or couldve made it mean more? Heck people are vying more for a warlord title than WSS.
I get your point about WBs title my friend, but its not related to one of the MCs and isnt a primary achievement or labelled as so, the WSS is labelled as a primary achievement like becoming PK/Warlord/Yonko,etc yet it is not portrayed as so at all, only zoro wants it. I wouldve loved to see rivals of him aiming for this,etc.
Who's to say that there aren't such people? I'll bet these little guys have the same dream:
They're imitating Zoro, not Mihawk, but if they want to follow their idol's path, it's got to lead to becoming WSS someday.
Alternative answer: Because he's so fucking good that everyone knows they don't stand a chance. There are obviously people who take swordsmanship very seriously: Cavendish, Shishilian, and my fav homie Randolph are very serious swordsmen. If they aren't up to challenging Mihawk for his title, then you know just how scary Mihawk must be to them.
Or, it's simply that Oda hasn't bothered to show us any more WSS title hype since Baratie. Even at MF, people recognized Mihawk and who he was, but hardly anyone hyped his title. They hyped his feats, which is more useful imo.
As several others have mentioned, Oda kind of dropped the WSS ball for a while.
But also, why haven't we met anyone else who wants to be a cartographer? Or someone else who's devoted their life to studying the Void Century? Both of those goals are way more important. We can assume that there are people out there with these goals, but Oda didn't show us them, either.
What in the world are you talking about? We know literally nothing about how or when he was brought into the Warlord system. By my math, he was either one of the first or one of the more recent.
I agree that the fanbase takes titles way too seriously, down to even analyzing "greatest" vs "strongest" and the differences in meaning thereof, when Greg has told us repeatedly that Oda doesn't gaf. This is the basis of the "pure swordsman" nonsense that leads to ridiculousness. The titles are what they are, and it wouldn't surprise me if they were all just common word-of-mouth or even propaganda that the WG sends out to discourage people from attempting the GL. It's not that I think Mihawk isn't the world's strongest swordsman (no capital letters; I'm not talking about holding the title), but it's not like they hold a yearly competition for all the swordfighters in the world and give one a trophy.
We might get an explanation of what the title really means when Zoro challenges Mihawk. Maybe you have to accomplish a feat greater than the prior title-holder or tame a wild sword that no one could tame. Until then, I don't think it's really that big of a deal.
Fights against what? The last swordsman zoro fought was ryuma. Oda dropped the ball in regards to the prestige of the title as no one but him cares about it.
Fights against what? The last swordsman zoro fought was ryuma. Oda dropped the ball in regards to the prestige of the title as no one but him cares about it.
Nope. The better swordsman is the one who wins the fight.
If they start adding conditions outside of winning then that makes Zoro's other wins pointless. If Zoro has to tame a sword to be better than Tashigi then There's no proof that him having beaten her proved anything.
The last 1000 chapters would be a waste of time since all Zoro did was win. If at the very end it's revealed he DOESN'T have to win to be the best, then it's entirely possible that even the people he beat for 1000 chapters were still better than him even though he won. Meaning there was no progress for 1000 chapters since winning was never the point.
And that's not happening. Zoro beats Mihawk and he becomes WSS. Plain and simple. Same way Luffy finds one piece and becomes pirate king. Plain and simple
Nope. The better sword small is the one who wins the fight.
If they start adding conditions outside of winning then that makes Zoro's other wins pointless. If Zoro has to tame a sword to be better than Tashigi then There's no proof that him having beaten her proved anything.
The last 1000 chapters would be a waste of time since all Zoro did was win. If at the very end it's revealed he DOESN'T have to win to be the best, then it's entirely possible that even the people he beat for 1000 chapters were still better than him even though he won. Meaning there was no progress for 1000 chapters since winning was never the point.
And that's not happening. Zoro beats Mihawk and he becomes WSS. Plain and simple. Same way Luffy finds one piece and becomes pirate king. Plain and simple
@wordyworm
This is also impossible since its not the WG that tells us Mihawk is the strongest swordsman. It's the narrator.
Mihawk 's intro box is the narrator's text saying "WSS Dracule 'Hawkeyes' Mihawk". If the Narrator box is lying then it can never be proven correct again.
By this I mean, there's no proof that another narrator box saying someone else after Mihawk is WSS is also saying the truth. Like evening it's Zoro. If the last chapter of one piece has Zoro's intro box as "WSS Roronoa Zoro" then what's stopping that from also not being a lie. Like even if Zoro beats Mihawk and then finds out that fujitora is stronger and beats fujitora and then finds out The gorosei guy is stronger and then beats that guy and then finds out Shanks is stronger and then Zoro even beats Shanks too and the series ends. The narrator box has been proven to lie already. There's no proof that Any if these people listed were WSS and the narrator calling Zoro WSS I'd not proof either. Since that same box LIED that Mihawk was WSS at the start of the series.
See what happens when unwarranted complications are added. Given that the story is pretty much at its end, this sort of random complication is extremely jarring
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