Worstgen
Cinera
Goddamn, I dislike people making arguments for positions they don't believe in. It complicates debates as changing someone's mind is more difficult when you're not even sure what their true positions are.
Elder Lee Hung
The argument stands or fails on its own merit, no?
Cinera
> “Profile Commenter” @Cinera strikes again
@Admiral Lee Hung: I like to reserve my main posts for my essays or otherwise substantial input that I think adds to the thread. I have no quality standards for my profile posts, so it's a more natural medium for me.
@Admiral Lee Hung: I like to reserve my main posts for my essays or otherwise substantial input that I think adds to the thread. I have no quality standards for my profile posts, so it's a more natural medium for me.
Cinera
> The argument stands or fails on its own merit, no?
@Admiral Lee Hung: this is true. But suppose I wanted to try and actually change your mind, that would be much more difficult as I'm not sure what your exact position is.
@Admiral Lee Hung: this is true. But suppose I wanted to try and actually change your mind, that would be much more difficult as I'm not sure what your exact position is.
Cinera
When I argue for a position, I don't present all strong arguments for the position, I don't even necessarily present the best arguments for the position, I present the arguments that I personally find the most compelling. The arguments that cause me to have whatever credence in the position I have.
Cinera
This is a form of courtesy, your interlocutors wouldn't waste time debunking arguments that you are yourself sceptical of or don't find convincing. It makes the debate much more productive and lets a conclusion be reached much faster.
That sense of rhetorical courtesy is why I dislike people arguing for positions they don't endorse.
That sense of rhetorical courtesy is why I dislike people arguing for positions they don't endorse.
Cinera
Anyway, because I hold you in high regard, I'll go through the thread in its entirety. Know that I don't really appreciate it though.
Elder Lee Hung
If you want to address my actual opinion, then I think Katakuri is above King, I suspect he is above Beckman too but it’s nothing more than a creeping suspicion lol. Shiryu is a mystery.
My reasoning in the thread would be the main things I can bring up against king and Becky
My reasoning in the thread would be the main things I can bring up against king and Becky
Cinera
I think Katakuri can be above King. For Beckmann I find the following to set him apart from the rest of the YC 1s:
* He's Shank's firstmate and shares a Luffy - Zoro / Roger - Rayleigh relationship with him (the "moon to Shanks sun" sentiment).
* Shanks' commanders were specifically mentioned as being "big names", possessing "high bounties across the board"and being "a well balanced and impregnable crew".
* He's Shank's firstmate and shares a Luffy - Zoro / Roger - Rayleigh relationship with him (the "moon to Shanks sun" sentiment).
* Shanks' commanders were specifically mentioned as being "big names", possessing "high bounties across the board"and being "a well balanced and impregnable crew".
Cinera
I think the last point is sufficient reason to give Shanks' commanders the benefit of the doubt over their equivalents in other Yonkou crews. No other Yonkou commanders have received the honour of being mentioned by name or the individual hype Shanks commanders did.
Despite being a very pacifist crew, their bounties are incredibly high.
Despite being a very pacifist crew, their bounties are incredibly high.
Elder Lee Hung
Do you think the RHP are the strongest Yonko Crew? And if so, why haven’t they been able to reach Raftel?
Elder Lee Hung
The fact that Shanks can’t reach Raftel points to the idea that his crew is both simultaneously stronger and weaker on average than other crews.
Cinera
Shanks is on cordial terms with the Gorosei, does not engage in wanton slaughter (he probably has very few if any) civilian casualties and he commands enough respect from the Marines and World Government for Sengoku to stop the Paramount War at his request and for the Gorosei to agree to meet him on short notice.
Cinera
This shows that the high bounties of the Red Hair Pirates are almost entirely attributable to their combat ability.
Even without being Shanks' Rayleigh, Beckman should already get the benefit of the doubt over the other commanders. Being Shanks' FM seals the deal.
Even without being Shanks' Rayleigh, Beckman should already get the benefit of the doubt over the other commanders. Being Shanks' FM seals the deal.
Cinera
> Do you think the RHP are the strongest Yonko Crew?
@Admiral Lee Hung: I think their commanders are noticeably above the average level of their counterparts in other Yonkou crews.
@Admiral Lee Hung: I think their commanders are noticeably above the average level of their counterparts in other Yonkou crews.
Cinera
> And if so, why haven’t they been able to reach Raftel?
@Admiral Lee Hung: I'm not convinced Shanks wants to. From a narrative standpoint, giving Roger's hat to Luffy was relinquishing any claim he had to the throne ("betting on the new era"). This is further reinforced in every interaction Shanks and Luffy have had since then.
@Admiral Lee Hung: I'm not convinced Shanks wants to. From a narrative standpoint, giving Roger's hat to Luffy was relinquishing any claim he had to the throne ("betting on the new era"). This is further reinforced in every interaction Shanks and Luffy have had since then.
Cinera
From a character standpoint, Shanks has gone to great pains to maintain the balance of powers in the world. From intervening in the Summit War to meeting with the Gorosei. Trying to become Pirate King does not fit as a motivation for the actions he took. Just as WB chose to rule from in front of the Throne, Shanks is trying to maintain the peace.
(͠≖ ͜ʖ͠≖)