Worstgen
Cinera
I think it also demonstrates that the bandages were simply to hide his identity, and this makes it more plausible that the purpose of the wooden scythes served a similar purpose as the mechanical ones are iconic for Killer.
HA001
At this point i dont think any torture has taken place. The whole get up for kamazou was just a disguise from oda to hide it being killer.
Garp the Fist
No. My take on Killer has always been he was mentally sound but naturally weaker without his main weapons, just as Zoro would be weaker with three different weapons. Nothing in this chapter challenges that.
Cinera
@Garp the Fist: the Zoro point is not actually that true. Apart from his swords with special abilities (Shusui and it's attack power boost, maybe Enma with its excessive release of ryuo) on the occasions in which Zoro used random blades different from his main swords, he did not appear to be noticeably weaker.
Cinera
The only swords that he ever needed time to grow accustomed too were meitou (and not all of them, Sandai Kitetsu, Shusui and now Enma). Zoro was able to use Yubashiri without any adjustment period, none was mentioned for the Wado Ichimonji but he gained it very early, so perhaps it happened.
Garp the Fist
The scythes Killer were using as Kamazou aren't even the same weapon type as what he normally uses. I don't see how anyone can say that wouldn't effect him. We saw in the fight with Killer that Zoro was capable of using the scythe in battle as well, but I'd sure as hell rate two swords and a scythe Zoro below three swords Zoro. Let alone three scythe Zoro, which is the actual parallel
Cinera
I think it did affect him, and it's how large a gap there is between Killer with the scythes and him with his mechanical sickles that's in question.
How big do you think the gap was?
How big do you think the gap was?
Garp the Fist
I'd say that Killer would have been as nerfed by his weapon choice as Zoro was nerfed by not having Shusui and having Gyukimaru attacking his back. Both still capable fighters, both still nowhere near their best. It would make sense that they were both roughly as disadvantaged as the other
HA001
Thats assuming his mechanical scythes are on the same level of a meito let alone a kokuto shusui that zoro was missing.
Cinera
@Garp the Fist: It sounds to me like you're reasoning from "Killer and Zoro were equally nerfed" without trying to assess how hindered Killer was from the facts on the ground. On one hand, that's circular reasoning, and on the other hand it's not a very convincing premise.
Cinera
It seems weird to believe that Killer using weapons that he'd had several days (maybe weeks) to accustom to was as large a detraction to his combat ability as Zoro missing his strongest fighting style, his strongest sword (an O Wazamono and a Kokuto), and having someone repeatedly sneak attack him during the high level duel? Like why on earth should we believe that?
Cinera
The situations are not analogous at all. Gyukimaru's interference is not in anyway related to Killer's situation. I mean, it might be plausibleto say that Zoro missing Shusui is analogous to Killer having scythes instead of his mechanical sickles, but to then add the Gyukimaru interference on top? The conclusion doesn't really have much to support it.
Garp the Fist
I find it far more weird to believe that Niitoryu Zoro is anywhere near as much a nerf as Killer with two totally different weapons, regardless of how long he may have had to train with them. Niitoryu Zoro beat Ryuma. We've seen- Hawkins being the most recent example- Zoro actively choose to fight with two swords even when he has three.
Garp the Fist
On the other hand, the scythes Killer used are completely different to the sickles. The scythes are a long hafted weapon with a curved blade at the end, the sickles a mechanised, short curved blade attached to his fist. It is worlds apart from his regular fighting style- Niitoryu Zoro isn't.
Garp the Fist
So yes, I think Gyukimaru acted to level the playing field. Oda’s been leaning heavily on the similarities between Strawhat and Kid Pirates this arc- more specifically, between Luffy/Zoro and Kid/Killer. As such, I don't think he wanted either Zoro or Killer to be more or less nerfed than each other
Garp the Fist
At that, and indeed the current stage in the arc, they are meant to be comparable. Not equal, but comparable. We are meant to see that the right hand men of Luffy and Kid can knock each other out in circumstances that are murky. A message that doesn't work if Zoro is massively more nerfed than Killer, or vice versa.
Cinera
Actually I wrote a thread on it, let's continue there. I stayed up most of the night to write it, and now that I've posted it, I'll be seeing to my meatbag's needs. I would reply later.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/.5111/
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/.5111/
Cinera
> We've seen- Hawkins being the most recent example- Zoro actively choose to fight with two swords even when he has three.
Actually, this is normal. Zoro rarely uses 3 swords. That an opponent could bring him to 3 swords speaks to their ability. He tends to fight with 2 swords until he gets more serious and then he brings out the third one (he normally uses his bandana when he's giving it his utmost).
Actually, this is normal. Zoro rarely uses 3 swords. That an opponent could bring him to 3 swords speaks to their ability. He tends to fight with 2 swords until he gets more serious and then he brings out the third one (he normally uses his bandana when he's giving it his utmost).
Cinera
3 sword Zoro vs 2 sword Zoro is nowhere near as big a gap as there is between G2 Luffy and Base Luffy, but a Luffy who couldn't use his gears would be weaker. And just because Luffy can beat some of his opponents without gears doesn't mean that his gears don't add to his ability.
Cinera
That Zoro beat Ryuma with 2 swords only shows that Ryuma wasn't that close to his level (and it wasn't by choice that Zoro faced Ryuma without his third sword), it was because he didn't have access to it.