Worstgen

You think that as right wing as someone may be, deep down they know the left and progressive way is the right way. That's not how it works.

Logiko

Not necessarily. I simply see leftism as the most ethical path. And believe that everyone can understand that it is.. indeed, the most ethical path. Sometimes, like you said, people will stop being ethical and go toward rightism. Everyone has also the potential to do horrible things. That's why I don't believe in inherent good or bad, but in the actions of individual and the understanding of our universe and systems

Logiko

Knowing what shape us and contextual informations makes us more likely to understand the most ethical path. But we can also lose sigh of this understanding. In fact, I know that I'm biased toward certain reactionnary ideas and I need to remind myself everyday "be careful, be careful, be careful". It's a constant fight. But a rewarding one.

Bisoromi Bear

>"And believe that everyone can understand that it is.. indeed, the most ethical path"

This is where you're wrong. The 'I'm against the left because I like being an asshole' mindset is less prevalent than you might think. For many on the right their values feel more ethical and the left feels rotten and amoral.

Bisoromi Bear

Your 'all ways lead back to leftism' is where you remind me of Christian missionaries

Logiko

I know full well how easy it is to be right wing and let the biases talk. It's instant gratification, it feels right and good something to just go a bit dark or think with emotions and short mind processes.. but it's not ethical or viable for all of us. Ethics and understanding require attention and self adjusment. It's not always easy, but often, it's wonderfull and liberating.

Logiko

You are mistaking what I said. There is a difference between ethics and morals. What you describe are people seeing something as moral. And yeah, sometimes, morality will bring people to the right. But morality is not enough to have a viable society, ethics are needed. Which is why lately I'm talking mainly about ethics, materialism and systems rather than morality and individual behaviors

Logiko

Ethics require the understanding of contextual elements. In our world, this is science, political awereness and self adjusment. This is what a part of the left is doing and what I think everyone has the potential for. But it require self-questionning, it's not easy. it means facing hard truth and also the fact that our morality is often wrong. Reality both "natural" and "social" is complex

Bisoromi Bear

>"I know full well how easy it is to be right wing and let the biases talk. It's instant gratification, it feels right and good something to just go a bit dark or think with emotions and short mind processes.."

Here you describe populism, not the right side of the political spectrum.
Populism both left&right appeal to emotions and instant gratification
Believe it or not, there are quite level headed rightwingers

Logiko

The right wing is in itself a form of populism. Idealism, which span from the right to a bit of the left is a set of belief that are based on quick and simple understanding of the world, something that "feels" right because it taps into our deepest desire as individual, but still simplistic. Even when it's build on complicated systems. The left will also use populism, but they go farther, they go beyond

Logiko

The left will challenge, sometimes strongly, its own belief system and this is the main difference. The left wants to understand more while the right wants to build a world around what they think they understand

Logiko

This is why you will go left when you start or will try to understand and you will go right when you think you understand. This is why I always remind myself that I only understand the surface. It a reminder of humility that always pushes me toward an ethical path

Logiko

Of course it's nuanced. But basically the path to understanding leads to the path of ethics

Bisoromi Bear

"The left will challenge, sometimes strongly, its own belief system and this is the main difference. " I've seen very biased leftists that exist in a bubble of thoughts and ideas they don't want to challenge and use scapegoating just as much as some on the right. 'The left' is not one united group with one set of beliefs either.

Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier

Oh my GOD stop flooding my alerts

Bisoromi Bear

" The right wing is in itself a form of populism. Idealism, which span from the right to a bit of the left is a set of belief that are based on quick and simple understanding of the world, something that "feels" right because it taps into our deepest desire as individual, but still simplistic. Even when it's build on complicated systems. "

Same could be said about some denominations on the left.

Bisoromi Bear

"The left will also use populism, but they go farther, they go beyond"
Yea and that's the problem at least with some of the hard left out there.

Bisoromi Bear

@Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier

Main reason I stopped responding to power scaler profile posts. I make one troll post and get dozens of alerts over the next week of 🤡s declaring admiral Jiaga experienced territorial and mental nerf

Logiko

@Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier lol
"I've seen very biased leftists [...] as much as some on the right" It's true. I'm talking about leftists, but leftism as a whole is not perfect, this is why we fight eachothers so much. Some people are caught in biased belief and slowly drift away. I myself included sometimes. But recognizing it is what makes the difference.. Sometime people don't, stagnate or drift right

Logiko

"Same could be said about some denominations on the left." indeed. But not all simplifications stand on simplicity. Most of the simplifications I make are funded on deep and complicated years of research, questionning and struggles. The result my seems simple, but the understanding is not.