Worstgen

I think it's because of his DF. IMO, that just means his physicals will be so much higher.

HA001

Equal to a guy who solold bb and his crew pre time skip with no devil fruit, speaks volumes. And if coo doesnt detect his fruit like i think then hes gonna be a monster.

TheAncientCenturion

Equal to the guy and in the Viz translation more lethal lmfao. He's more lethal than a poison man.
IDK if it was you or someone else pointed it out, but Shiryuu is 100% Teach's oden.

HA001

I feel confident in saying his sword (thunderstorm) is a saijo owazamono the top rank too.

HA001

Lol funnily enough the one who made the thread on shiryu and oden was erkan lol. Only good thing hes ever done.

TheAncientCenturion

I think he'll be a low top tier by that point, so I sure as Hell hope Shiryuu has one. That'll be a whole new level for Zoro to surpass.

HA001

Well i have oden at low top tier. And thematically shiryu will be above that.
Which for zoro strength progression makes sense. Cause i have luffy post wano a solid mid top tier and zoro low. Plus its likely zoro will finally upgrade the sandai to the nidai post wano.

TheAncientCenturion

Mid top tier is possible actually, if Shiryuu will be as much of a challenge to Zoro as Teach is to Luffy. It should be a grueling up hill battle for him. IDK where to rate Oden, some days he's a low or Mid top tier for me, others I remember how Roger forced him to his knees with a non-lethal air slash.

HA001

I think low top tier is the fairest placement of him. Considering if we have roger a top top tier the gap between them makes what happened plausible. Especially when that oden wasnt prime oden yet so hed probably have been below his final standing when he died.

TheAncientCenturion

True. I think we'll get more statements regarding that if Momo/Hiyori ever talk to Kaido. His level is also vague. I like to think he's close to his prime but that's hard to really discern.

Cinera

@HA001 COO appears to detect his fruit; Moriah reacted to his attack and partially evaded it.

HA001

I dont think shiryu had intent to kill there.
When doffy was gonna kill moriah and Absalom intervened doffy didnt have a clue what happened there and actually thought moriahs kage kage power did something. And i doubt moriahs coo > doffys.

Cinera

@TheAncientCenturion, @HA001 Oden took a named attack from Prime Roger with only superficial damage, and was much more impressed than wounded. Luffy took a named attack from a significantly weaker character (Kaido) and was OHKOed.

Cinera

The Oden that returned to Wano is also stronger than the Oden that fought Roger.

Cinera

@HA001 does Doffy have exceptional COO feats? The fact of the matter is Moriah did react to Shiryuu. Whether Shiryuu was indee going for the kill wouldn't affect invisibility blocking COO.