Worstgen
Cinera
If you're trying to downplay Prime Ray by arguing he didn't stomp said mid tiers (when even a weaker version of himself could do so), then it's a bad argument. Either Ray did not fight those mid tiers, Ray fought someone else, or it's an inconsistency.
Cinera
What you're doing is akin to saying Hawkeye can't be a high tier because he postponed against fodder pirate Don Krieg.
Cinera
Even if Ray was stalled by the mid tiers (an unlikely assumption, if Ray fought at all, it was probably vs Oden), stalling Borsalino >>> getting stalled by mid tiers. It's a poor argument to focus on.
Cinera
The actual arguments against Ray are:
* He was willing to tag team Oden.
* He wasn't mentioned in the God Valley incident.
* He was willing to tag team Oden.
* He wasn't mentioned in the God Valley incident.
Elder Lee Hung
1. Who said the Whitebeard Pirates were mid tiers back then? The stronger were probably Low high tiers Back then imo.
2. Stopping base Kizaru isn’t a huge feat, idk why y’all act like it is. Jinbe stalled base Akainu, that doesn’t mean Jinbe mid diffs YC1s lol.
2. Stopping base Kizaru isn’t a huge feat, idk why y’all act like it is. Jinbe stalled base Akainu, that doesn’t mean Jinbe mid diffs YC1s lol.
Cinera
1. They were apprentices. There's nothing to suggest they were low high tiers. Especially given how young they were, and that their equivalents in the Whitebeard Pirates were literal fodder (Shanks and Buggy).
Cinera
2. He's the only person to stop Borsalino in his tracks and he did so for several minutes. Even after the Summit War, Sentomaru still highlighted Rayleigh as the one who stalled Borsalino in his tracks. Shirohige couldn't do it and neither could Marco.
Cinera
Rayleigh also wasn't going all out (he didn't use Barrier haki let alone penetration haki). He didn't use his long range slashes (which should be much stronger than Dressrosa Zoro).
Trollzaru was so frustrated that Rayleigh stopped him that he went to capture 500 pirates to vent his frustration.
Trollzaru was so frustrated that Rayleigh stopped him that he went to capture 500 pirates to vent his frustration.
Cinera
Garp still compared him to Whitebeard calling both legends and stating that the marines would lose "countless men". That's amazing hype for his combat ability.
Elder Lee Hung
Marco at Marineford objectively did better against Kizaru than Rayleigh did. Marco straight up kicked Kizaru away and made him stop fighting. All Rayleigh did was stop him for five minutes.
You can say that Ray didn't use penetration Haki but there is 0 evidence for this whatsoever. All we know about their matchup is that Rayleigh literally was required to use Haki against the Logia Kizaru, while Kizaru
You can say that Ray didn't use penetration Haki but there is 0 evidence for this whatsoever. All we know about their matchup is that Rayleigh literally was required to use Haki against the Logia Kizaru, while Kizaru
Elder Lee Hung
Kizaru himself was not required to use Haki against Rayleigh. For all we know, Rayleigh was spamming Penetration Haki against Kizaru and Kizaru wasn't even using basic Haki to counter him.
Cinera
Rayleigh stopped Borsalino for several minutes. He also managed to damage him while on guard. Marco was only able to attack him while he couldn't easily evade (in the air) and did zero damage.
Borsalino managed to damage Marco and walked away from the encounter with no damage. Rayleigh managed to damage Borsalino and walked away from the encounter with no damage.
Borsalino managed to damage Marco and walked away from the encounter with no damage. Rayleigh managed to damage Borsalino and walked away from the encounter with no damage.
Cinera
Even after witnessing the Summit War, only Rayleigh was mentioned to have stopped Borsalino.
Borsalino was so frustrated by his inability to do anything against the Dark King that he captured 500 pirates to vent his frustration.
Borsalino was so frustrated by his inability to do anything against the Dark King that he captured 500 pirates to vent his frustration.
Xione
There's one thing that's never made sense about swordboi logic @Cinera . Logically if somebody is canonically stated to have the combat skills to be able to compete with Dracule, you would assume he's able to give him a good fight, thus he's strong. Rather than hyping Vista up for being that strong, you guys try to find weird excuses to dismiss the clash, which only creates illogical arguments.