Worstgen

Veku

- Zoro, Sanji, Law and Kid are more guess- work than anything, since we are currently in a transition phrase.
I thought it makes no sense for Law and Kid to be lower, but also didn't want them to place them above Yc1, without respective portrayal and feats
I do believe Z and S will take out King and Queen, but I'm not sure if Enma and the Rs is enough to do that, or if they will receive help directly, or indirectly.

Veku

- Lucci is just me fanboying lmao( I might change his placement).
- I could see Denjiro being placed higher, but I believe the Strawhats and maybe the Supernova will take over the strongest enemys as usually, hence he does not necessarily need to be stronger.
- I left out the two admiral candidates since I just couldn't think of any fair placement
- Teach could already be the strongest

Veku

- I admit that by feats Ivankov should be below Jack and Cracker, but to me he's underrated.
Also since I do not read spoilers, it's based on chapter 979.

Cinera

Hmm, my points of contention would be:
* I think @ZenZu raised good arguments against Sengoku > Rayleigh
* You don't buy Weevil's hype?
* Raid Suit Sanji's best feat is failing to defeat a high mid tier, I think you're giving him a little too much benefit of the doubt (I also don't think he'll solo Queen if they fight at all).

Cinera

But it's a good list over all. I do think Crocodile in MF showed feats that are incompatible with him being below low high tier, but he's even stronger now, and I'm not sure how much, so I'm holding off on rating him.

Cinera

I guess there's no reason for him to be stronger than Doflamingo though, so that forms a good ceiling.

Cinera

I find Law above Zoro hard to accept as well. Their feats were comparable without Zoro using Asura (which took him from getting high diffed by Kaku to low diffing him), and given that Luffy and Sanji saw upgrades for their EL power ups, Zoro should have as well. If DR Santoryu Zoro was comparable to Law, all out DR Zoro should be well above.

Cinera

Things get worse for Law when you factor in Enma. Zoro said it would make him "that much stronger", so jumping a sub tier seems plausible. Law has not received any sort of power up, yet he's supposed to maintain parity (let alone superiority) to a stronger version of a character he was merely on par with while restricted.

Veku

Rayleigh has arguably better feats than Sengoku, but it was the Bb pirates vs likely a version of Garp, being devastated and demoralized and S, also Rayleigh was inactive, drinking and gambling for the past 20 years, while S was at the every least semi- active and as Zoan user his strength should've decleaned less.
Just my two cents, but I guess it's debatable...

Veku

' I do buy Weevils hype, but Kizaru only hyped his strength, hence as of now he's a one trick pony to me, meanwhile everyone comparable to Yc1 and above seems to be a lot more balanced and has the means to deal with raw strength, hence I'll wait for more infos before putting him next to them or above.

Veku

I just believe Crocodile has reached his peak again, since he regained his determination/spirit
at Dressrosa Law is>/= Zoro to me, due to his showings against Mingo he edged it out. Asura may have changed that, but that's not certain.
With Enma, Zoro> Law due to the haki boost, but since I gave Law basically another boost, as I said above, I placed him above again due to the premise of fighting against Kaido.

Veku

I just can't see him being at the same level as he was at Dressrosa, when he is aiming for Kaido.

Cinera

Regarding the Sengoku stuff:
* Sengoku had no reason to be demoralised while Garp had one.
* Those same BB pirates that were happy to face Sengoku and Garp fled from Sakazuki and fodder.
* Borsalino should be comparable to Sakazuki.
* I think stopping Borsalino in his tracks is a much better feat than what Sengoku did (especially considering how injured he was after).

Cinera

I do agree with the decline argument, and I had Prime Sengoku above Prime Ray, but his feats in old age were really unflattering.

Cinera

I think current Law is stronger than his DR self. However, I don't think that kind of boost is comparable to receiving an explicit power up. Aside from Future Sight and advanced COA current Luffy has seen some increase in base stats (for example his seastone cuffs training in Udon), but the non haki boost should be less of a big deal than learning advanced COO or advanced COA.

Cinera

I think similarly for Zoro vs Law, his Enma training is an explicit boost, and so should be a bigger deal than Law's hidden boosts.

Cinera

Or consider Sanji. Early Wano Sanji is probably stronger than Fishman Island Sanji, but those gains are dwarfed by the difference between Early Wano Sanji and Raid Suit Sanji.

Cinera

I guess there's an argument that Kidd received no power ups and would go from losing to Snack to fighting Kaido, so non SHs may not get explicit power ups...

Cinera

I think preskip Asura was a huge deal. Santoryu Zoro's was getting high diffed by Kaku, but with Asura he casually destroyed Kaku's strongest attack and took him out with a single named attack. That's a really huge jump.

G2/G3 and Diable Jambe became even better post timeskip, so I think the same would be true for Asura.

Cinera

I don't think it's really credible to place Dressrosa Law above Zoro. Even if you place Law above Zoro, the gap between them cannot be as big as the gap between Zoro with Asura and Zoro with Santoryu.