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Of course. I would almost never blame a loss on one player because the game simply doesn't work that way. Apologies for it having come across that way.

Tagging @Lord Melkor here too as neither of you seem to be getting this. While Town theoretically had. A chance to stop the Mafia kills, it was effectively not a chance, because if they didn't stop both they lose. And this next part is for you Melkor: First, we can't really count on the Mafia...

He had the bounty on a townie anyway, beginning D5. His actions afterwards changed nothing. The moment Day 5 began with 5/3/1, the Mafia virtually won, and just needed the right actions to go their way.

I mean, no, we can't say that for sure, most of the players were pretty inept at that point. But if you go back to the original point, I explicitly asked you to give me examples of games where an Indie betraying the Town was the sole reason the town lost, and you pointed out Star Wars Mafia. As...

Town had several awful mistakes that you're neglecting to mention, mistakes that the Mafia used to win the game. If you're going to tell me that the only reason that was a loss was because of Fuji, then we're simply not talking about the same thing here. My modkill didn't really affect the...

Really? You're going to tell me the sole reason the Town lost Star Wars was because of Fuji siding with Scum at the end? Not Lord Melkor playing like an extra Scum member for inexplicable reasons? Not Ultra sitting on information that exposed the Godfather from Day 3? Not the Town voting to give...

Can you name a single instance where the sole reason your team lost was because of an Indie?

Yes but this is an awfully reductionist argument, where you divorce your statements from all context. For example, said Indie also lost, was coerced by the Mafia to side with them, and was not able to account for several factors in a game in which the town was, truly, abysmal. You seem to be...

So can you explain to me how you being shot was endemic of TAC being an Indie, as opposed to, say, a misplay from TAC? Because I think if the point you're making is that all players who roll Indie will go out of their way to abuse trust given in them, you're going to have a very hard time...

I think both Flower and I earned any trust we received from this Town. It is *literally* just Ekkologix here, but this is what I said to Fuji earlier - the takeaway won't be that most of the Indie claims in this game were helpful to Town - arguably to a fault - but that one Indie claim actively...

Tis the truth.

Yes.

I quoted you with it earlier.

I would have been killed at some point either way. If I didn't town side, some townie would have done it because "Indies can't be trusted".

Basically Ariess for your games you just need to give me a role designed to be dead in a cycle or two, I always get killed quickly in these games.

Anyway, ending aside, thanks for the game @Ariess - moreso than usual. This role came at the perfect time, felt like I was getting super tilted in recent rounds so this helped me refind some perspective too. Good game. And thanks for co-hosting it @Kagurashii Onto the next one.

I get it mate, I do, and like wins/losses are whatever in these games, but I feel bad for Ekko and Emi here. Zolo didn't really play the game so it's whatever with him, but those other two deserved this win given how it ended.

That's my understanding, yes.

He was killed today, and Doom won, so it would only be fair he wins too.

Kino