Versus Battle 4 Heavenly Kings vs Juuku’ou, Sentou’n & Gen’u

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#21
but overall I think this Gohoumei Army would beat Juuko'ou pretty badly if he was the one facing Wei.
Based on what exactly? Do you think JuukouOu is just that much weaker than Gen’U? You understand JuukouOu and Gen’U are commanders of the same level regardless of whether or not JuukouOu can actually fight right? Juukou’Ou should eat the likes of Bakai alive no diff.

Juuko'ou doesn't have any powerful elites or any methods to decicively press his offense.
He’s got superior tactics to Gen’U who was pressing Houmei. Do you just think Gen’U is superior to Juukou’Ou or something? Lol

The arguement of Juko'ou holding his own simply because he's part of the Juuko Quartet just doesn't convince me.
So you do just think Juukou’Ou is the weakest then.

Gohoumei would simply resort to his more advanced formations like Ryuudou.
How would he even execute a Ryuudou on a hill when he was also trying to protect the Qin flank LOL
 
#22
Based on what exactly? Do you think JuukouOu is just that much weaker than Gen’U? You understand JuukouOu and Gen’U are commanders of the same level regardless of whether or not JuukouOu can actually fight right? Juukou’Ou should eat the likes of Bakai alive no diff.

He’s got superior tactics to Gen’U who was pressing Houmei. Do you just think Gen’U is superior to Juukou’Ou or something? Lol

So you do just think Juukou’Ou is the weakest then.
Thats just a bland powerscaling arguement without any nuance.

Juuko'ou can be a superior strategist or even a superior commander then Gen'u and at the same time be worse in certain situations due to bad match up.

A lot of Genu's success came down to him having shit tone of elites which were able to lock Wei troops plus Hakurei also playing his part. Meanwhile from what we've seen Juuko'ou's army is nothing special. Juukou'ou is just not a guy build for straight-forward direct clash.

How would he even execute a Ryuudou on a hill when he was also trying to protect the Qin flank LOL
If Chu would go all out offense on Gohoumei's HQ then there's no need to worry about Qin geting flanked, since that would require a large detachment to succeed. Chu was not in a position to split their forces.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#23
Thats just a bland powerscaling arguement without any nuance.
Wait what lmfao? What do you mean? I mean are you about to argue Renpa and Rinshoujou were not also equals as commanders? Are you going to nitpick the particulars of matchup there as well or with those two do you except that they were basically equal on any given battlefield?

And I feel like you are dodging the question because you know Juukou’Ou received equal portrayal to Sento’Un and Gen’U in terms of his overall abilities. How you really gonna argue JuukouOu doesn’t eat someone like Bakai and spit him out at a neg diff lmfao.
 
#24
Wait what lmfao? What do you mean? I mean are you about to argue Renpa and Rinshoujou were not also equals as commanders? Are you going to nitpick the particulars of matchup there as well or with those two do you except that they were basically equal on any given battlefield?
But they were obviously not equal on any given battlefield, lmao. Hara pointed out multiple times that match ups and circumstances matter a lot in warfare and some types of commanders are better in certain situations and worse in others.

And I feel like you are dodging the question because you know Juukou’Ou received equal portrayal to Sento’Un and Gen’U in terms of his overall abilities. How you really gonna argue JuukouOu doesn’t eat someone like Bakai and spit him out at a neg diff lmfao.
What do you mean I'm dodging the question? I already told you we aren't talking about just JKO vs Bakai, but him vs entire Wei Army. It's really not that hard to understand that collecting heads of generals is more difficult when you're a HQ siter rather then frontline warrior. If JKO tries to make some sort of tactical manouver to attack Bakai then he risks creating opening somewhere else. And the fact he doesn't have any special elites means Wei would have easier job at exploiting such things.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#25
But they were obviously not equal on any given battlefield, lmao.
We really having this argument right now lmfao…I thought it was pretty much a given that Rinshoujou with his Ten Heroes and incredible leadership would rival Renpa on any battlefield any day of the week. Sure I guess they have specific situations they are better in? But Rinshoujou wasn’t exactly some long range specialist like Ousen or Riboku, he was a tactician who could fuck up the armies directly in front of him.

It's really not that hard to understand that collecting heads of generals is more difficult when you're a HQ siter rather then frontline warrior.
Conversely, fucking up entire armies/formations is far easier for an HQ sitter than for a frontline warrior. And this is what JuukouOu would excel at in comparison to Gen’U who was already overwhelming Houmei in a headon collision in terms of troop movements and tactics.

If JKO tries to make some sort of tactical manouver to attack Bakai then he risks creating opening somewhere else.
It is literally far easier to exploit the openings created by a martial general’s movements than it is to find openings against somebody like JuukouOu who constantly has a view of the entire battlefield and can quickly adjust tactics on the fly…exploiting the weaknesses of a Sento’Un or a Man’U would be far easier than exploiting the openings of a JuukouOu.

And the fact he doesn't have any special elites means Wei would have easier job at exploiting such things.
What series are we discussing LMFAO, a strategist is going to be ten times harder to gain any ground against in a tactical sense than any martial commander lol…JuukouOu is far, far better equipped to face an opponent like Houmei than somebody like Gen’U, and Gen’U was already winning against Houmei anyway.
 
#26
And we have a definitive answer to that question, which is better than Gen’U, who yes was in fact overwhelming Houmei. That was the whole reason Houmei elected to switch tactics in the first place is because his lines were buckling against Gen’U and Gen’U was closing in on him.
This isn’t really what happened. In fact after Gen’u took out Bakai, we know that Junei/Ryuuan vs Hakurei/Gen’u were stalemating.

The main change in tactics was to free up Tou who was the best offensive weapon along with Moubu. Even GHM’s best offensive weapon wasn’t even against Gen’u.
Post automatically merged:

Kyou En was also a former GG who clashed with Renpa,
nah just a general. Granted, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t gg level
 
#27
Heavenly Kings take it without Man'U. Kashibou is likely going to be the strongest combatant, and is likely going to be a beast of a general in a face to face war. I'll give Juuk'ou the slight edge strategically over Genpo. When you throw in their decades of experience going to wars together + conducting high level strategies under Genpo & Renpa over the decades to these three.

I think it's the HKs as the clear cut winners.
 
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